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Naughty Thought

M

M

Guest
I was just pondering over Buffy's lovers a while ago and a rather humorous naughty thought came to me, so I'll share here.

Of all the sexual experiences Buffy has on the show they go as follows:(number of times)

Angel: her first time, and the only time with Angel -- very sweet, but she gets abandoned by Angelus and thrown into serious emotional turmoil. (1).

Parker: Genuine douchebag human who she has one night with, and whose rejection causes emotional anguish and feelings of inadequacy.
(1)

Riley: Genuine nice guy and built to last. She clearly enjoys the romance over a two year period, and we can assume most of her sexual growth and exploration happens with him, but their moments in the bedroom seem sweetly playful. (6+)

Spike: No lead up necessary. All the guy has to do is put his hands up her skirt or down her pockets and she's ready to go at it like rabbits for hours. (6+?)

Ranking them mentally this way sort of made one thing very apparent, Spike may have been a virgin before he was turned, but he certainly didn't waste the last 120 years with Dru. I'm guessing he was probably right in "Wrecked"...Buffy never had it so good.

Sorry, it's a bit lemony and cheeky, but I figured someone else might like the notion as well.
 

AstridDante

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Yes I think it is canon they were both each other’s best. In Wrecked that Spike comment that ‘she has never had it so good’ is canon from the shooting script where it says Buffy thinks this is true but to be honest it’s pretty obvious, it was an amazing night for both and that he is in fact the best she has ever had physically speaking. I would say that goes both ways for him as well, she was his best also ‘it was a revelation’ and Dead Things, ‘you were amazing’ and ‘I have never been with such an animal’. Riley was the healthiest, in that it seemed loving and satisfying until something seemed to become missing on both sides which resulted in Buffy going out to slay after being ‘together’ clearly not satisfied and Riley going to vamp hos. Like you said Parker was just a douche and she described it as ‘nice’ so in my view nothing to write home about. I think she was just hurt for having been used and rejected like that. Angel was a very emotional connection and very tender. A perfect first time. If it wasn’t for his curse, I don’t think they would have any issues in bedroom but...I still don’t think he would rock her world like Spike
 

Priceless

Scooby
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Riley and Buffy starts out pretty well, but later we see she becomes bored of him and needs to go out hunting to use up some of her extra energy after they've had sex. The sex might be good, but I don't think it can be great.

I've always wondered how good the sex with Parker was. Buffy obviously likes the guy and is desperate to be in a relationship, but I can't help thinking that someone like Parker would be bad at sex, because it's all about him.

I love that we see different kinds of sex between Buffy and Spike. They love the gymnastic 'we missed the bed again' stuff, but we also see the sweeter more romantic 'tell me you love me . . . tell me you want me . . .; kind, which must have been less gymnastic because it seems to happen completely on top of a tomb.
 

TriBel

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Riley and Buffy starts out pretty well, but later we see she becomes bored of him and needs to go out hunting to use up some of her extra energy after they've had sex.
Sex and death...whether bringer or receiver of...grist to the mill for BtVS. Why the tomb in AYW (genuine, trick-free, non rhetorical question 😄) ?🤔 Don't tell me they were in a hurry...I'm not buying it. I don't particularly like that episode.

Spike is primarily Id driven...and therefore has fewer inhibitions than her other lovers. He doesn't think in terms of transgression (or "naughty")...if you don't - or are not equipped to - acknowledge the super-ego/social law you can't break it and here's no shame attached to the act. He's working towards the development of an ego but in S6 it's still WiP. I can't understand why fans are so quick to dismiss Gone. Rather than Buffy acting "out of character", it's Buffy at her most authentic - "Buffy Unchained" as it were. I think it's a great episode.

Sex/pleasure with Riley abides by the reality principle...with Spike it goes beyond the pleasure principle...it's jouissance, which is both pain and pleasure. The pleasure is physical...the pain psychological and existential. He's no danger to her as object...but he threatens her subjectivity - her identity, both as slayer and as a (clean and proper) woman. Hence her "confession" to Tara. This isn't resolved until Touched...which is a theoretical tour de force in terms of subject/object relations.

Riley - I think is an Angel substitute but also a bridge between Angel and Spike. Professor Walsh - who is, in a sense, both mother and father to Riley testifies to this (Angel has Daddy issues/Spike has Mummy issues. Riley has both. Riley should, in theory, be the perfect match - but isn't. I'm not interested in him enough to consider why.

Angel...kinda doomed from the start because of the neat (maybe not so neat) compartmentalization of the Id and the ego. Meh...I only find him interesting when the two blur...which is in AtS.

Probably all wrong because I don't usually think beyond Spike so I made most of it up.

Definitely. When she's undoing his belt . . .
*Rolls eyes and shakes head sadly* Potential is hotter. Rona says so.
 

Priceless

Scooby
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Sex and death...whether bringer or receiver of...grist to the mill for BtVS. Why the tomb in AYW (genuine, trick-free, non rhetorical question 😄) ?🤔 Don't tell me they were in a hurry...I'm not buying it. I don't particularly like that episode.
As soon as I wrote sex on a tomb I knew it was deliberate, in this episode especially. Sex/the little death and the end of the relationship . . for the time being.

As for Gone, it's not one of my favourite episodes, but the more I read the more I like it.
Hence her "confession" to Tara. This isn't resolved until Touched...which is a theoretical tour de force in terms of subject/object relations.
I recently watch a fanvid that split screened Tara in S6 and Dawn in S7 asking Buffy the same question 'Do you love him?'. The difference in the scenes and in Buffy highlighted the changes in her and her relationship with Spike in a way I'd never seen before. It worked really well.
Riley - I think is an Angel substitute but also a bridge between Angel and Spike. Professor Walsh - who is, in a sense, both mother and father to Riley testifies to this (Angel has Daddy issues/Spike has Mummy issues. Riley has both. Riley should, in theory, be the perfect match - but isn't. I'm not interested in him enough to consider why.
Riley, for me, is the non vampire Angel. He's pure of heart (or as much as either of them are) and wants to do the right thing, while often doing the wrong. Both are so physically similar, the dark and the light and that couldn't have been a coincidence on this show. I agree he should have been perfect for Buffy, and may have been, if she'd fallen for Spike prior to Riley - maybe they bought his character in too soon.

Oh yes, Potential is definitely hot, but I do like a bit of belt action 😆
 
TriBel
TriBel
...and thank you. I knew you'd do my thinking for me. :D
M

M

Guest
Riley, for me, is the non vampire Angel. He's pure of heart (or as much as either of them are) and wants to do the right thing, while often doing the wrong. Both are so physically similar, the dark and the light and that couldn't have been a coincidence on this show.
Just thinking about the sex with Angel before the day is reset in Angel the show, it was definitely Riley-esque. Together they were playful, sweet, and obviously had endurance together, but she never seemed to have her world totally rocked like she did with Spike.

Hmm...methinks this might be another extension of Spike's need to do for the person he loves, so he tries harder than Angel. Or maybe we are meant to believe he was just naturally a sex god. Maybe it's because he's a sensitive poet. Anyone else want to weigh-in?
 

AstridDante

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I think Spike is just super in bed to be honest with zero inhibitions. I don’t think it is anything to do with him competing with Angel. I think Spike was very passionate about Buffy which manifested physically and it led to some great sex between them
 

Puppet

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Black Thorn
I think Spike is just super in bed to be honest with zero inhibitions. I don’t think it is anything to do with him competing with Angel. I think Spike was very passionate about Buffy which manifested physically and it led to some great sex between them
I would actually agree with that. As much as my inner Spuffling hates admitting it (lol), I don't think Spike is just automatically 'best in show bed'; I think it's also important to take into account the emotional and mental state of Buffy. If she had given in and started sleeping with Spike in S5, I don't think it would've been quite as experimental or violent as it was in S6 canon, because that Buffy didn't hate herself and her current life. And when she was with Angel, she was still innocent and new to it. And Riley was the first guy she was with more than once, which was special all its own.
 
M

M

Guest
I think Spike is just super in bed to be honest with zero inhibitions. I don’t think it is anything to do with him competing with Angel. I think Spike was very passionate about Buffy which manifested physically and it led to some great sex between them
No, I didn't mean he's in competition with Angel, I just mean he tries harder to please the person he's with. Angel as Liam was a f**kboy, so I doubt he ever had an incentive to do much more than please himself, and later Angelus was the head male of the gang, not much of a switch really.
 

Serenityrose

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Confirmed in the shooting script
SPIKE
I may be dirt, but you're the one who
wants to roll in it, slayer. You
never had it so good as me. Never.

Buffy takes this in, shaken. It's true. She shakes him off.

Spike was the best lover Buffy ever had.

And similarly I think Buffy was the best lover Spike ever had per his conversation with Anya in Entropy.. saying she was so raw, he never felt anything like it.
 
AstridDante
AstridDante
Agree, with all of this

AstridDante

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I would actually agree with that. As much as my inner Spuffling hates admitting it (lol), I don't think Spike is just automatically 'best in show bed'; I think it's also important to take into account the emotional and mental state of Buffy. If she had given in and started sleeping with Spike in S5, I don't think it would've been quite as experimental or violent as it was in S6 canon, because that Buffy didn't hate herself and her current life. And when she was with Angel, she was still innocent and new to it. And Riley was the first guy she was with more than once, which was special all its own.
I think whether they had slept together in Season 5 or Season 6 it was always going to be wild and very passionate between them. It’s the nature of the chemistry between the characters from the start. However, when she came back from the dead, she was trying to lose herself in it/him. I actually don’t think it was violent at all, rough yes, violent no. Maybe some s and m type stuff but mild. The only time we saw actual violence was before first time in Smashed
 

AstridDante

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No, I didn't mean he's in competition with Angel, I just mean he tries harder to please the person he's with. Angel as Liam was a f**kboy, so I doubt he ever had an incentive to do much more than please himself, and later Angelus was the head male of the gang, not much of a switch really.

No, I didn't mean he's in competition with Angel, I just mean he tries harder to please the person he's with. Angel as Liam was a f**kboy, so I doubt he ever had an incentive to do much more than please himself, and later Angelus was the head male of the gang, not much of a switch really.

I think Spike would be a very generous lover and be concerned with his partners pleasure in addition to his own. I also think Riley and Angel would be the same. I think Angel had matured a lot in that respect since his Liam incarnation. Parker, the less said the better
 
M

M

Guest
I think Spike would be a very generous lover and be concerned with his partners pleasure in addition to his own. I also think Riley and Angel would be the same. I think Angel had matured a lot in that respect since his Liam incarnation. Parker, the less said the better
Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but even though Angel and Riley are nice, I think they are used to being attractive, and perhaps naturally can lean on that. I'm not saying they don't try to please their partners, and I agree they are probably both quite accommodating, but I think Spike is coming from a different place. Spike as William used to be the butt of everyone's joke. He wasn't cool, and no one thought he was attractive. Clearly he's hot now, but perhaps his unique history makes him perpetually try harder than anyone else. I think this is also why we see Spike doing things others won't, like handling the cross in Angel to win against him for the cup.
 

AstridDante

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I get the point you are making, that he still has that latent insecurity from his ‘William’ days and that influences him and his behaviour in different ways and the need to ‘prove himself’ or try harder. At the same time he has come a long way since then and is comfortable in his ‘Spike’ skin so I don’t read too much into that as regards his bedroom prowess or activities which seem to come pretty naturally. I definitely see his need to prove himself in other areas though for instance against Angel, that scene in Destiny is the perfect example but then again they have always had that rivalry
 
M

M

Guest
It's apples and oranges really. Either way Spike comes off looking good in this conversation, and to be honest, I'm not particularly devoted to one theory more than the other. Either way he's still sex on legs. The mind just wanders.
 

darkspook

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There is part of me that thinks while Spike is generous he also enjoyed pushing Buffy’s buttons and seeing how far and what act he could get her to do in season 6. We saw a little bit of this in balcony scene for example. I think at times Spike got off on the fact that Buffy was with him a soulless demon and very much wanted to indulge in seeing how far he could push her into letting go.

Technically if anyone is sex on legs it’s Xander. Here’s a guy who went from being described by Faith as ‘wouldn’t want to interrupt those 7 minutes’ to ‘he’s a Viking in the sack’ by Anya in just over a year in a half. Rather than think Anya doesn’t know what good sex is and was slumming it I feel that Anya was alive for thousand years and probably enjoyed all sex with shapes and sizes so I think that says a lot about Xander.
 

Cheese Slices

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There is part of me that thinks while Spike is generous he also enjoyed pushing Buffy’s buttons and seeing how far and what act he could get her to do in season 6. We saw a little bit of this in balcony scene for example. I think at times Spike got off on the fact that Buffy was with him a soulless demon and very much wanted to indulge in seeing how far he could push her into letting go
I think you're taking away a good chunk of Buffy's agency here. It's implied several times that Buffy actually shocks Spike by how rough and naughty she is : he is the one constantly covered in scratch marks, bite marks and bruises ; when she tells him that their night together was "the most perverse, degrading experience of her life" he replies "me too" -- the fact that Buffy was, according to him, his kinkiest experience kind says it all. Mostly they push each other's boundaries constantly, it's not a one way street.
Technically if anyone is sex on legs it’s Xander. Here’s a guy who went from being described by Faith as ‘wouldn’t want to interrupt those 7 minutes’ to ‘he’s a Viking in the sack’ by Anya in just over a year in a half. Rather than think Anya doesn’t know what good sex is and was slumming it I feel that Anya was alive for thousand years and probably enjoyed all sex with shapes and sizes so I think that says a lot about Xander.
Or Anya is one of those people who enjoy short and vigorous sex, and the fact that she lets a small "hey" tells me that Faith isn't too far off the mark. Doesn't matter, it's true that Anya is very satisfied with him. I don't think he and Buffy/Spike are on the same playing field, due to their different nature. Either way I don't get what he has to do with the rest of the thread, but good for him ;)
 
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