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Official Political Discussion Thread 4

TriBel

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The "free world" may not care for Trump very much, but they're always the first ones to complain if America doesn't bail them out of some crisis or other. Its vaguely annoying, actually. 🤔
Read the research (as I said it's from the Pew Centre in Washington). It's nothing to do with "America" per se - it's related to this specific POTUS. While America itself is generally liked internationally, Trump isn't. It happens...What it actually says is: " Fewer people express confidence in Trump than in other world leaders. Of the five world leaders asked about in the survey, German Chancellor Angela Merkel gets the most positive rating, with a median of 46% expressing confidence in her handling of world affairs. Only around three-in-ten express confidence in Trump (29%) – similar to the share who voice confidence in Chinese President Xi Jinping (28%). However, the share of people who express no confidence in Trump is higher (64%) than it is for all of the other world leaders asked about."
 
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Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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Read the research (as I said it's from the Pew Centre in Washington). It's nothing to do with "America" per se - it's related to this specific POTUS. While America itself is generally liked internationally, Trump isn't. It happens...What it actually says is: " Fewer people express confidence in Trump than in other world leaders. Of the five world leaders asked about in the survey, German Chancellor Angela Merkel gets the most positive rating, with a median of 46% expressing confidence in her handling of world affairs. Only around three-in-ten express confidence in Trump (29%) – similar to the share who voice confidence in Chinese President Xi Jinping (28%). However, the share of people who express no confidence in Trump is higher (64%) than it is for all of the other world leaders asked about."
Since the President represents this country, I'm afraid it has everything to do with America.
 

Buffy Summers

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Sineya
When 96% of press is negative, how could the rest of the world possibly have a good impression of the US president?
 
burrunjor
burrunjor
The great irony is that the mainstream media are a greater evil than Trump. Who was it that helped lead us into a war with Iraq on pack of lies? Who is that's covered up SA scandals like Jimmy Savile, and driven young women to early graves?
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
The press are negative about him because they have no other choice but to be. He's impossible to defend. Besides if International journalist are just as negative that tells me that it can't be media bias. They can't all be wrong all of the time.

white avenger

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The "free world" may not care for Trump very much,
It's nothing to do with "America" per se - it's related to this specific POTUS. While America itself is generally liked internationally, Trump isn't.
Trump says that he represents the United States and its interests first, and expects all of the other world's leaders to do the same for their own countries. As long as he sticks to that, I'm happy with whatever foreign policy he cares to support.
 

burrunjor

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I got into a disagreement with Charisma Carpenter about politics. It's a shame when you get into one with someone you like, but I felt I had to stick to my principles. I often call out gits like Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr, both of whom I absolutely despise , so I should call out people I like too.

She was going on about how awful Trump was for showing disrespect to America's veterans with his comments about Biden's son. I got angry because Charisma called Tulsi Gabbard a coward for not showing up to impeach Trump on Russia Gate, a modern era McCarthy style witch hunt.

That really irked me. How dare she call Tulsi a veteran a coward. Tulsi would have been the best President of all time. She was a proper left wing candidate. So I sent a tweet calling her out. I hope she doesn't block me, but well if she does it won't make any difference, other than it's a shame she resorts to that like a lot of celebs.

Here is her tweet about Tulsi (who ironically she looks very similar too.)


The support for Biden makes me sick. It shows just how easily the press can manipulate people. Everybody goes on about hating the press, they'll watch the Amy Winehouse biopic, talk about Princess Diana and say how awful the press were in those instances, yet they STILL lap up everything they say immediately after.

Biden and Trump are both awful, but to be honest I'd rather see Trump win because if Biden does then that's that for any kind of left wing politics in the US. The Democrats can now pick whichever corrupt candidate they want. They need to be sent a message that they can't just roll out a war mongering, crooked sleaze bag like Biden or Hillary. We need another Trump victory to send a real message, and then maybe in 2024 you can get a Tulsi, or a more left wing candidate.

However none of these supposedly left wingers have thought this. They've just bought into "ORANGE MAN BAD!" By the way whilst I don't like Trump, he's actually the best President of the past 20 years simply by default, as he's the only one who hasn't launched an illegal war against another country (so far.) Bush did Iraq, Obama did Libya, both of those are among the biggest war crimes and disasters of the entire 21st century.

Hey Charisma if you're reading this, this is the candidate you smeared as a coward for not taking part in McCarthyism, damn Russkys hiding under the bed, Putin is Moriarty controlling the world hysteria.


This is the candidate you want us to show respect too.



You know what annoys me even more about people like Charisma, all their "SUPPORT WAR MONGER HILLARY BECAUSE SHE'S A WAHMAN" has been shown to be the worthless, shallow, jump on the bandwagon, media inspired crap that it always was.

Why weren't they saying the same thing about Tulsi? Tulsi was a woman, had a much better track record, was anti war, universal health care, and she was cheated for an old war mongering, creepy, perverted candidate? Why isn't Joe seen as a stale, pale male?

Simple because the media didn't like Tulsi. "LISTEN TO THE MUSIC SHE'S EVIL!"
 
Reason: removed curse words
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Mr Trick
Mr Trick
Nah Obama is the best President of the last 20 years hands down.

Taake

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I got into a disagreement with Charisma Carpenter about politics. It's a shame when you get into one with someone you like, but I felt I had to stick to my principles. I often call out gits like Frankie Boyle and Jimmy Carr, both of whom I absolutely despise , so I should call out people I like too.

She was going on about how awful Trump was for showing disrespect to America's veterans with his comments about Biden's son. I got angry because Charisma called Tulsi Gabbard a coward for not showing up to impeach Trump on ****ing Russia Gate, a modern era McCarthy style witch hunt.

That really irked me. How dare she call Tulsi a veteran a coward. Tulsi would have been the best President of all time. She was a proper left wing candidate. So I sent a tweet calling her out. I hope she doesn't block me, but well if she does it won't make any difference, other than it's a shame she resorts to that like a lot of celebs.

Here is her tweet about Tulsi (who ironically she looks very similar too.)


The support for Biden makes me sick. It shows just how easily the press can manipulate people. Everybody goes on about hating the press, they'll watch the Amy Winehouse biopic, talk about Princess Diana and say how awful the press were in those instances, yet they STILL lap up everything they say immediately after.

Biden and Trump are both awful, but to be honest I'd rather see Trump win because if Biden does then that's that for any kind of left wing politics in the US. The Democrats can now pick whichever corrupt candidate they want. They need to be sent a message that they can't just roll out a war mongering, crooked sleaze bag like Biden or Hillary. We need another Trump victory to send a real message, and then maybe in 2024 you can get a Tulsi, or a more left wing candidate.

However none of these supposedly left wingers have thought this. They've just bought into "ORANGE MAN BAD!" By the way whilst I don't like Trump, he's actually the best President of the past 20 years simply by default, as he's the only one who hasn't launched an illegal war against another country (so far.) Bush did Iraq, Obama did Libya, both of those are among the biggest war crimes and disasters of the entire 21st century.

Hey Charisma if you're reading this, this is the candidate you smeared as a coward for not taking part in McCarthyism, damn Russkys hiding under the bed, Putin is Moriarty controlling the world hysteria.


This is the candidate you want us to show respect too.



You know what annoys me even more about people like Charisma, all their ****ing "SUPPORT WAR MONGER HILLARY BECAUSE SHE'S A WAHMAN" has been shown to be the worthless, shallow, jump on the bandwagon, media inspired crap that it always was.

Why weren't they saying the same thing about Tulsi? Tulsi was a woman, had a much better track record, was anti war, universal health care, and she was cheated for an old war mongering, creepy, perverted candidate? Why isn't Joe seen as a stale, pale male?

Simple because the media didn't like Tulsi. "LISTEN TO THE MUSIC SHE'S EVIL!"
I'll be editing the starred out words out of your post. Even in the Politics thread, please remember to keep your tone family friendly. Curse words are not necessary.

Also, when posting videos, please summarize their content for ease of discussions. Not everyone will be interested in or have the time to watch the videos you guys share, this goes for all of you. Please remember that this is a discussion forum first of all, not a place to just share YouTube videos etc, so if you want to share a video, make sure people can understand what it is about before deciding whether to watch it or not. Or even better, make the argument with your own words.

And again, let's be careful about denigrating other groups, if you guys want to be able to keep these discussions going, please read this carefully On Politics
 
burrunjor
burrunjor
The first Biden video is only 45 seconds long, whilst the second, you'll only need to see 45 seconds to get a good idea of what it's about LOL.

The Bronze

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We need another Trump victory to send a real message, and then maybe in 2024 you can get a Tulsi, or a more left wing candidate.
Very much agree with the majority of your post, not sure about this though. I don't think a left candidate will be allowed to get anywhere within the current structure, within the party or the country. We've seen this play out in the UK.

I'd probably suggest damage limitation for those on the left in America. Vote against Trump and then carry on working to make structural change within the Democrats and country itself. I don't envy that choice and it looks pretty bleak either way.
 

Taake

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@burrunjor The first Biden video is only 45 seconds long, whilst the second, you'll only need to see 45 seconds to get a good idea of what it's about LOL.

Absolutely irrelevant. Besides, if it is that short, just make the argument using your own words rather than someone elses. This isn't YouTube.
 

burrunjor

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Very much agree with the majority of your post, not sure about this though. I don't think a left candidate will be allowed to get anywhere within the current structure, within the party or the country. We've seen this play out in the UK.

I'd probably suggest damage limitation for those on the left in America. Vote against Trump and then carry on working to make structural change within the Democrats and country itself. I don't envy that choice and it looks pretty bleak either way.
Perhaps, but Biden got in by being so against the socialist Bernie Sanders. I can't help but feel that if he won it would be seen as a "see this is why socialism (which in their definition would include everything up to and including free health care) never works."

At least if they lost to Trump who is a joke of a candidate a second time it might lead to a party cull. Once they can write off as a fluke.

It's kind of like what happened with Corbyn in the UK here. Again people bought into the media's smears and now mainstream left wing politics is dead in the UK. UGH if there is a bigger evil in the west than the mainstream media I honestly don't know what it is?
 
nightshade
nightshade
45 seconds is still more than I can watch while at work, can't watch any videos.

TriBel

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When 96% of press is negative, how could the rest of the world possibly have a good impression of the US president?
If you're referring to the US press, then I don't think all the international coverage is mediated through them (though some may be). Often, the press have foreign correspondents on the ground and foreign journalists see the same televised interviews American journalists do. There's some ideological alignment (Trump tends to be more popular with right wing/far right factions in the UK and the EU, as borne out in the Pew research) and, sometimes responses are governed by his foreign policy (which isn't always seen as helpful but I understand @white avenger 's position on this). If I'm honest, I think it's as much to do with him as a person. He's seen as boorish and "unreliable" in terms of what he says (many news agencies fact check him as a matter of course even during live interviews).

Here's YouGov (a polling company) Warning - Obama tops the poll - he's streets ahead of Trump (10th). Even Bernie's more popular, as are both the Clintons. YouGov's owned by ex(?)conservatives but Merkel's popularity suggests a liberal bias in the responses.

On the topic of the debate, I couldn't find a single poll that gave it to Trump (though it could be down to algorithms). I tried to check some of the European papers but, TBH, I'm limited to those who publish international editions.

This is what The Daily Mail, our most right wing paper had to say about the debate (warning - it's not pleasant. I think BTL it's split. I'm startled to find it partly reflects my initial post here). STEPHEN GLOVER: Our leaders have not descended like America's

It's kind of like what happened with Corbyn in the UK here. Again people bought into the media's smears and now mainstream left wing politics is dead in the UK. UGH if there is a bigger evil in the west than the mainstream media I honestly don't know what it is?
I don't think it's that simple. It's far more insidious than "the media". More often than not, you can see media bias for what it is. We know which way our press leans and often the press just reinforces beliefs people already have. Hegemony is different...it works at the level of "common sense" and it's so ingrained it's difficult to stand outside of it. Change needs to be structural...and if you try to change structure, there's a danger of the whole edifice collapsing.
"Baby steps"...unless the edifice collapses under the weight of its own contradictions, which is what you seem to suggest. IDK...the whole thing's depressing. "Pessimism of the intellect. Optimism of the will".
 
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white avenger

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If you're referring to the US press, then I don't think all the international coverage is mediated through them (though some may be).
No, I was referring to the coverage presented by the US press only. I've never actually heard anything one way or the other about Trump's foreign press coverage. I'm sure that, like all politicians and celebrities in general, he has his supporters and detractors in the foreign press, as well as some who simply state the facts without offering any sort of personal opinion or judgement. Sadly, that lack of bias doesn't seem to hold true here, where the liberals seem to control both the news media and even most of the entertainment content.
 

Give Us A Kiss

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Trump has tested positive for Coronavirus, wonder how this will affect the election...
 

Taake

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I suppose it will make debates and rallies difficult. Though, if he doesn’t get too sick I suppose he can be on a screen and not in a room with people.
 

white avenger

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I just found something kind of interesting, that you aren't likely to hear anywhere else. On Marl Levin's show on 10/2/20 (if you don't like the guy, that's up to you, but this is at the first of the cast, so just be patient for a couple of minutes) there is a recording of Biden's Vice Presidential debate, and he acted the same way then as he did just a few nights ago with Trump. This is Biden's fault, not so much Trump's, or at least he started the brawl, so we can't put all the blame on the President, he just wasn't going to be steamrolled like a more polite debater would have been.

Where is the big networks' coverage of that?
 

The Bronze

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Trump has tested positive for Coronavirus, wonder how this will affect the election...
Lots of different scenarios I can imagine. Firstly if he does have it and he gets seriously ill then he might have to withdraw. His age puts him at increased risk.

If he doesn't have it or has mild to no symptoms then I should imagine things will carry on but with more use of technology to keep the candidates and everyone else at more of a distance. He'll probably get a popularity bounce and more positive coverage.

Should imagine this will cause some cognitive dissonance for those who believe everything Trump says and also believe Covid to be a hoax.
 

nightshade

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So Mike Pence for President if Trump has to withdraw?
 

Spanky

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So Mike Pence for President if Trump has to withdraw?
No. The Republican convention would be held again and they would nominate someone. If the election wasn't so close they would change out the names but unsure that would happen now.
 
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