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Official Political Thread 5

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Spanky

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Neither Trump not Biden will bring us closer to the Kingdom of God, from a Christian perspective,
It depends. I was talking to some people (very religious) over the weekend and their belief is that a Biden election ushers in events of the Great Tribulation.

So from that perspective, voting Biden would bring us closer.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Biden would be persona non grata to Christian faith leaders has no real merit in my opinion. Unless you know something about them that I don't?
Since churches have come under attack from BLM, it just would've surprised me that Christian faith leaders would want to support the party that is supporting the rioters. As for that friar, he's from California and the democrats have a stranglehold on California. What about faith leaders outside California or in red states? How many faith leaders are there across the whole of America so we can get a percentage percentage eg 1600 sounds a lot, but out of a million it's not a lot at all.
 

Taake

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It depends. I was talking to some people (very religious) over the weekend and their belief is that a Biden election ushers in events of the Great Tribulation.

So from that perspective, voting Biden would bring us closer.
Yes, and there a Rad Trads who think that Biden, Bill Gates and the Pope are all in cahoots with Satan and Trump is the only way.
Every group has its fringes.

Since churches have come under attack from BLM, it just would've surprised me that Christian faith leaders would want to support the party that is supporting the rioters. As for that friar, he's from California and the democrats have a stranglehold on California. What about faith leaders outside California or in red states? How many faith leaders are there across the whole of America so we can get a percentage percentage eg 1600 sounds a lot, but out of a million it's not a lot at all.
So everyone from California are suspect? That sounds healthy. He's a Catholic friar and priest, by any Californian metric, - by most metrics - he is a very conservative person on policies like marriage, same-sex marriage and attraction, and abortion. But because he's pro-BLM, he's immediately a Californian liberal nutter? This is more your BLM-bias speaking, than a coherent case for why faith leaders would be anti-Biden.

And my point was that it shouldn't surprise you. Not that there aren't faith leaders for Trump. But that naturally there are plenty of faith leaders for Biden.
 

Spanky

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... the Pope ... in cahoots with Satan
Yeah, I was having that conversation a few weeks ago where this chick was saying there is proof that the Vatican in general is the beast of revelations.
 

TriBel

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The Guardian is notoriously left wing so take what they say with a pinch of salt. Also democrats are keeping churches closed but are happy for people to riot, loot and burn down businesses. It would surprise me if christian faith leaders are endorsing Biden.
It's lean left (which it acknowledges) or to the left of centre but not "notoriously" so. In fact, it was reluctant in its support of Corbyn. I imagine Owen Jones is about as far left as it gets and he's an acquired taste. Simon Jenkins is ex-London Standard/The Times. It has that reputation because, other than The Mirror, it's the only mainstream paper in the UK that leans that way. It's left with a touch of Liberalism...it's not the Socialist Worker. It's also considered one of the most reliable UK titles.

Other than that, @Taake's beat me to saying the story's reported elsewhere. I have friends who are Quakers and their personal ideology is much more in keeping with left than right.

@Spanky - it's a slapstick advert for British Butter with Lydon frolicking about in a field, waving a few flags and claiming he eats the butter because he likes the taste. It's cringe-worthy - he took a lot of stick over it (hardly anarchy).
 
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TriBel

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Interesting article/stats from Pew Research on the political preferences of US religious groups (albeit 2016).
 

DeadlyDuo

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So everyone from California are suspect? That sounds healthy. He's a Catholic friar and priest, by any Californian metric, - by most metrics - he is a very conservative person on policies like marriage, same-sex marriage and attraction, and abortion. But because he's pro-BLM, he's immediately a Californian liberal nutter? This is more your BLM-bias speaking, than a coherent case for why faith leaders would be anti-Biden.

And my point was that it shouldn't surprise you. Not that there aren't faith leaders for Trump. But that naturally there are plenty of faith leaders for Biden.

What I mean is that California tends to lean left so a friar from California is likely to support the democrats, however that doesn't mean he represents the opinion of faith leaders as a whole across America. Also, I think you've overreacted a little bit over my comment about being surprised that faith leaders are supporting Biden.
 

Spanky

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Interesting article/stats from Pew Research on the political preferences of US religious groups (albeit 2016).
And based on the 2012 general exit polls. I'm sure the results would be different now. I would LOVE to be able to compare and contrast to the current rankings. Wonder how much the ratings fluctuate.
 

Taake

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What I mean is that California tends to lean left so a friar from California is likely to support the democrats, however that doesn't mean he represents the opinion of faith leaders as a whole across America. Also, I think you've overreacted a little bit over my comment about being surprised that faith leaders are supporting Biden.
And I would say there are a lot of things in this thread you overreact to, but we keep it about the posts. And your post was a sweeping generalization I felt needed to be amended from a Faith perspective
 

DeadlyDuo

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And your post was a sweeping generalization I felt needed to be amended from a Faith perspective
I think you've just read the tone of my post wrong, I wasn't being mean when I said I was surprised that faith leaders were supporting Biden, I was just remarking my surprise that Christian faith leaders would be supporting Biden, given the attacks on churches. That's not saying that they can't or shouldn't be supporting Biden, it's just expressing surprise.
 

Spanky

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I felt needed to be amended from a Faith perspective
Really it depends on which Faith perspective you are talking about. I mean clearly not every Faith perspective is actually healthy... or arguably sane. That time she was running with around with Wilkins I think her perspective was quite skewed.

#sorrynotsorry
 

TriBel

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And based on the 2012 general exit polls. I'm sure the results would be different now. I would LOVE to be able to compare and contrast to the current rankings. Wonder how much the ratings fluctuate.
I honestly don't know enough about faith groups and organized religion in the US to say. All I can manage is the odd remark about predestination. I thought it was telling that the Vatican refused a meeting with Pope Francis but whether it was a snub, diplomacy or a genuine ruling I couldn't guess (I suspect my opinion of Francis has been positively coloured by The Two Popes film). Certainly in the UK, the Church of England came out in support of BLM:

"On Tuesday evening, the Archbishop of Canterbury said in a video posted on social media: “I am struck by the effects of the last few days again and again and again, and I’ve been listening to those who have been talking about it from within their own experience of injustice as people who have come to this country. It’s horrifying.

“Yet I am aware, too, that the Church has its own failings, and I come back to the fact that in the New Testament, Jesus says: ‘Be angry about injustice. Repent of injustice.’ That means going the other way, taking action against injustice. . .

“It must never involve the creation of more injustice, by seeking to damage other people. But I feel within me again today that great call of Jesus that we are as a Church to be those who set our own house in order and who acknowledge our own historic errors and failings. As a person, I acknowledge that I come from privilege and a place of power as a white person in this country.”
(From The Church Times I think).

His thoughts were echoed by many of the Bishops who "took the knee" but whether that attitude is consistent with attitudes held by the Anglican or Methodist churches in the US, I don't know. Churches here don't have the power they have in the US - to all intents and purposes we're a secular country. I know Trump's claim that Biden would "hurt God" was received with incredulity here. It seemed a bit desperate.

I just thought the swing (if it is a swing) was interesting (plus, if I have to chose between Lydon and a gospel choir, the choir wins every time). 🙂


I was just remarking my surprise that Christian faith leaders would be supporting Biden, given the attacks on churches.
I don't think it's that clear-cut. For instance, St John's was damaged but the Episcopal Bishop of Washington, Mariann Budde, criticized Trump's clearance of the protesters and his attempt to use the church "as a backdrop for a message antithetical to the teachings of Jesus."
 
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nightshade

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I'm locking this one up as we've hit the limit, please wait for staff to open up a new thread.
 
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