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Ok the big one, Angel Season 4 v Buffy Season 7

Btvs fan

Scooby
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Ok which do people prefer or dislike the least. In A) we have a character Assassination and rewrite of a plot due to a pregnancy and creators feud with said Pregnant woman as well of course Connor a character so despised even the Actor playing him disliked the role.
In B) We have the Potentials and there sucking of screen time. Again a creator feud with the female lead. A terrible villain that the writers only discovered can't do anything, due to being incorporeal, late into the season. General writer exhaustion and burnout after 7 years. Terrible sets due to budget savings for the Final episode battle, And finally Andrew and Kennedy characters ....
 

Taake

Prophet of the Lord
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Easy, Angel season 4! The only thing I truly mind is Cordy+Connor but that’s mostly because Charisma is visibly pregnant and much older than Vincent at the time. It is more visually appalling to me than problematic in terms of storytelling.

Otherwise I love season 4, had Charisma been a better actress even Cordy would’ve been cool in it. (Oh and they could’ve cut that scene where they made her make out with the Beast. I can see why she gave up on making an effort).

But the season all together has me at the edge of my seat, like a greek tragedy in an operatic way. I think it improves on re-watches too!

Btvs 7 gives me little joy, I always tear up a little in Chosen when the music swells and Buffy gets up and kicks ass, and ”Him” is a treat, just as ”Selfless” is a long overdue Anya episode, but overall it is meh for me. I can re-watch these three episodes and that’s all I need from this season.
 

Spanky

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It is more visually appealing to me than problematic in terms of storytelling.
I think you had a typo. I fixed it for you.


To answer the query. Angel S4. Easily. I do not dislike it at all.
 
Taake
Taake
Thanks, I hate it.

NileQT87

Billowy Coat, King of Pain
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No question. AtS season 4 is great, compelling and ultimately has a very well thought-out, thought-provoking message on free will. This season lives up to who Angel is as a character and what his journey means. Angel's story was always about fighting a predetermined fate foisted on him against his will at every turn, but then turns it around on the very forces manipulating everything in his life and fights back for the free will of humanity. And I love Connor and Vincent's performance. It was a difficult, tragic part with a wonderful conclusion.

BtVS season 7 literally contradicts the message of its sibling show (even when it was pointed out just a few episodes prior that Buffy didn't actually CHOOSE what she was forced to become against her will and underwent 7 years of trauma because of something done to her) during the same year and comes off as the writers not even thinking about what they're writing anymore. And, an even worse crime, much of the season is boring and gives way too much screen time to a lot of unlikable personalities. And sorry to say, but you can see the light going out of SMG's eyes even more than it already had.

And as the ultimate insult, Buffy accomplishes exactly nothing with her big, anti-free will plan in Chosen. She, her sister, her friends and all the Potentials would have been Kibbles 'n Bits without Wolfram & Hart having an apocalyptic scheduling conflict and swatting the First down like an annoying, still incorporeal (and thus undefeated) gnat. Jasmine and Wolfram & Hart both easily wipe the floor with most of Buffy's villains (especially the later ones) on the conceptual level.
 
Taake
Taake
”Apocalyptic scheduling conflict” lol! Love it

Puppet

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Definitely Angel S4 (if we're asking which we prefer). I've said it in another thread recently, but Angel S4 is simultaneously my favorite and least favorite season (although that's been changing lately, as I dislike S3 a lot) and that's because it both has some of the best stuff in the entire series, and yet some truly bad crap as well.

But the good outweighs the bad. Easily. It has the best premiere episode with Deep Down. It's the culmination of the Wesley character arc that we've been building to since S2, at least. Faith finally gets the story (and some may say redemption) that she deserved ever since waking from her coma in Buffy S4. Angelus returns (which I happen to love so :p) Jasmine is a fantastic 'villain' and I love that even today it's still argued whether she was truly a villain or not. We get great episodes like Release, Spin the Bottle, Orpheus, the whole Angelus arc, the Jasmine arc. Really, there is more good than bad.

But people are so stuck on the image of Connelia 'making love' that they can't see past it. That 'relationship' and Cordelia's 'evil arc' are literally the only truly weak points of the season; I can easily see past it and enjoy the season for how amazing it is.

Buffy S7 is not bad, but...it's not great. :(
 

katmobile

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No brainer for me Season 7 - has a beautiful message about empowering others and forgiveness and it didn't kill off two awesome female characters in the service of a shitty plot.

Of course the Angel stans hate season seven - yawn!
 
Puppet
Puppet
NOT an Angel stan and don't hate S7, but I prefer what I prefer. Not any more complicated then that.
Taake
Taake
Why the need to insult others just because they don’t agree with you? Unnecessary and ads nothing to the conversation
Cohen
Cohen
What is a “Stan”? I have heard this term on twitter and don’t get it.

Btvs fan

Scooby
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No question. AtS season 4 is great, compelling and ultimately has a very well thought-out, thought-provoking message on free will. This season lives up to who Angel is as a character and what his journey means. Angel's story was always about fighting a predetermined fate foisted on him against his will at every turn, but then turns it around on the very forces manipulating everything in his life and fights back for the free will of humanity. And I love Connor and Vincent's performance. It was a difficult, tragic part with a wonderful conclusion.

BtVS season 7 literally contradicts the message of its sibling show (even when it was pointed out just a few episodes prior that Buffy didn't actually CHOOSE what she was forced to become against her will and underwent 7 years of trauma because of something done to her) during the same year and comes off as the writers not even thinking about what they're writing anymore. And, an even worse crime, much of the season is boring and gives way too much screen time to a lot of unlikable personalities. And sorry to say, but you can see the light going out of SMG's eyes even more than it already had.

And as the ultimate insult, Buffy accomplishes exactly nothing with her big, anti-free will plan in Chosen. She, her sister, her friends and all the Potentials would have been Kibbles 'n Bits without Wolfram & Hart having an apocalyptic scheduling conflict and swatting the First down like an annoying, still incorporeal (and thus undefeated) gnat. Jasmine and Wolfram & Hart both easily wipe the floor with most of Buffy's villains (especially the later ones) on the conceptual level.
I half agree with you. Angelus out of his cage is made to look ridiculous and its capped off with DB breaking the 4th wall Fleabag style grinning at the camera and doing a quip. Apparently Angelus was crucial to Evil Cordy plans but I don't k ow how 🤷‍♂️

Chosen though has that awful scene of Buffy doing a montage about giving a choice then cutting to a load of girls who aren't given a choice. Which itself 7 episodes ago had been a racist rape metaphor in which Blond Buffy had been chained up and being infected by black demon seed against her will by evil black men 🤢😡
That was 2003 there are no excuses for what they did in Get it done. Yet Joss authorised it and then it ignored it several episodes later 😒
 
NileQT87
NileQT87
Easy. He was a time-consuming distraction to get the team looking anywhere but at Cordy while Jasmine readied her plan. And it worked. Fred brought Lorne to L.A. Lorne sent Angel to the Trials/woke up Jasmine/distracted from Angelus. Skip was right!

WillowFromBuffy

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I don't know what confuses me more: that people made AtS S4 or that some people enjoy watching it? The Gina Torres episodes are great. The rest of the episode is just stalling by introducing new silly plot points that go nowhere as they try to write some kind of ending for it all. And I am convinced that the writers hated their own show and all the characters in it and everyone who still watched it.

S7 has many of the same flaws as AtS S4 but to a much much lesser degree, and it does have some amazing episodes in there. You cannot write off a season that has such great episodes as "Same Time," "Selfless," "Help," "Conversations with Dead People," "Storyteller," "Potential" and "Chosen."

I think the AtS writers must have been injecting their own magic heroin.
 
B
Btvs fan
I would swap Potential/Storyteller and the awful Chosen for Never Leave me/Lies my parents told me and Dirty Girls imo
Bluebird
Bluebird
I *really* enjoy watching it, but then I'm also a massive weirdo with few friends ;)

Tank1978

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I prefer A4 as well. Other than the evil cordy arc and Jasmine arc I enjoyed a lot of the series. The run of episodes from apocalypse nowish to orpheus is one of my favourite run of episodes in all the 5 series. I know I'm in a minority here but the character of Jasmine I just don't like. Also I agree with an earlier post in that deep down is the best opening episode of the whole buffyverse. And Angelus coming back was great.

Alternatively s7 has a few decent episodes but quite a few that don't really stand out too much. From sleeper to storyteller there's little there I'm desperate to rewatch. Not keen on how they all turn against Buffy despite all she's done in the past and how often her gut feeling is right. It felt like they cheated anya out of an emotional death scene. The way she died is ok but the lack of grief especially from xander felt unfair on a character that has been around since s3. I'm not even going to get started on the potentials....
 
B
Btvs fan
Anya should've died in Selfless it would've been perfect

telperion66

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Angel season 4 is superior, hands down.

If you've already watched Angel season 3 by this time, you'll most likely be gripped by all the main characters, storylines and plot arcs. Season 4 continues these threads without missing a beat, literally, in terms of timescale.

Angel season 4 is an absolute masterpiece, but I see it really as a half-season, ending when they kill the beast in Angel's fantasy. That's what should have happened... they should have killed the beast, then Angel gets with Cordy and everything returns to somewhat of an equilibrium to finish the season with brighter, tighter, well-written episodes that, well, could have been anything.

Instead, they dragged the Beast thing out with Faith, then introduced Jasmine which was a total disaster story-wise.
 

katmobile

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I half agree with you. Angelus out of his cage is made to look ridiculous and its capped off with DB breaking the 4th wall Fleabag style grinning at the camera and doing a quip. Apparently Angelus was crucial to Evil Cordy plans but I don't k ow how 🤷‍♂️

Chosen though has that awful scene of Buffy doing a montage about giving a choice then cutting to a load of girls who aren't given a choice. Which itself 7 episodes ago had been a racist rape metaphor in which Blond Buffy had been chained up and being infected by black demon seed against her will by evil black men 🤢😡
That was 2003 there are no excuses for what they did in Get it done. Yet Joss authorised it and then it ignored it several episodes later 😒
Buffy can't undo what the shadow men did and the world does need slayers at least this way her and Faith aren't alone in opposing the forces of darkness. Also an army of equal strength is needed to oppose the ubervamps and Buffy did not know what the amulet would do. Slayers can and do quit and lead normal lives we see that in the comics and being a slayer certainly would have helped the girl who used her new power to defend herself.

Both are symbols of forgiveness Willow finally gets past her guilt and fear in using the scythe and Spike atones for what he did by saving Buffy, the world and inadvertently Angel. I don't care I love season seven and it's a hill I'll die on defending it.

Sorry puppet for being rude btw.
 
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Black Thorn
Buffy season 7 no contest. I despise Angel season 4 with the entirety of my soul.
 
K
katmobile
I kinda hate most of it Faith saves it along with Fred being awesome in the face of Jasmine and the crunchy moral dilemma of Jasmine and Awakening and Wiliah. The rest is a dumpster fire.

katmobile

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Taake - historian's perspective here your biases will affect your judgement it's not rude IMO to be point that out. Ok maybe I shouldn't admit I'm bored by it but it gets a tad predictable at times. Also I notice how you only like X because of y stuff sometimes gets no comebacks.
 
Last edited:

BaskingINBangel

"Peanut butter, preferably crunchy!"
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No contest, Angel season 4!

I don't think Buffy season 7 is all that bad to be honest. It's just not one of my favorite seasons, and when you stack it up against one of my favorite seasons of AtS, well, it's going to lose. I do like Selfless (I adore Anya) and Same Time, Same Place is really good, along with Chosen. There just isn't anything really outstanding about this season for me.

As I stated on the BtVS season 6 vs AtS season 3 thread, seasons 4 and 5 of AtS are my absolute favorites of the series. I think season four is darn near perfect. Yes there are things I could live without (Conner/Cordelia still makes me cringe every time, and Angelus was kind of disappointing this season) but even with those issues, the good far outweighs the bad for me.
 

Taake

Prophet of the Lord
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Ok which do people prefer or dislike the least. In A) we have a character Assassination and rewrite of a plot due to a pregnancy and creators feud with said Pregnant woman as well of course Connor a character so despised even the Actor playing him disliked the role.
In B) We have the Potentials and there sucking of screen time. Again a creator feud with the female lead. A terrible villain that the writers only discovered can't do anything, due to being incorporeal, late into the season. General writer exhaustion and burnout after 7 years. Terrible sets due to budget savings for the Final episode battle, And finally Andrew and Kennedy characters ....
^^ Legitimate question asking members for their opinion on two season that polarizes the fanbase

No brainer for me Season 7 - has a beautiful message about empowering others and forgiveness and it didn't kill off two awesome female characters in the service of a shitty plot.

Of course the Angel stans hate season seven - yawn!
^^ answer which dismisses anyone that disagrees with the point of view of the poster. The first line says it all, no need to target others as a group.

Taake - historian's perspective here your biases will affect your judgement it's not rude IMO to be point that out. Ok maybe I shouldn't admit I'm bored by it but it gets a tad predictable at times. Also I notice how you only like X because of y stuff sometimes gets no comebacks.
^^ lazy attempt at self-justification for being unnecessarily rude and reductive. In the 20 day challenge thread you, unprovoked, assumed that it'll turn into a "kick the Spike thread" without anything really negative having been said in that thread about the character. This shows me that your biases is going into threads and assuming you'll be annoyed with the perspective of other members assuming a majority doesn't agree with yours. The predictability is in your head, the answers are varied and people have clearly thought about their reasons. If you're bored, don't take it out on others.
 

katmobile

Scooby
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^^ Legitimate question asking members for their opinion on two season that polarizes the fanbase



^^ answer which dismisses anyone that disagrees with the point of view of the poster. The first line says it all, no need to target others as a group.



^^ lazy attempt at self-justification for being unnecessarily rude and reductive. In the 20 day challenge thread you, unprovoked, assumed that it'll turn into a "kick the Spike thread" without anything really negative having been said in that thread about the character. This shows me that your biases is going into threads and assuming you'll be annoyed with the perspective of other members assuming a majority doesn't agree with yours. The predictability is in your head, the answers are varied and people have clearly thought about their reasons. If you're bored, don't take it out on others.
You're the boss so I'll try.
 

Angel6

Potential
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Messages
172
I really think both are incredibly weak. I think Season 6 of Buffy is weaker than ether of them though.
 
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