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Ok the big one, Angel Season 4 v Buffy Season 7

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,812
Age
37
Angel season 4 in all ways but one.

The only way season 7 beats it for me is that season 7 Buffy has a couple of great stand alone episodes that shine on their own, whereas just watching a single Angel episode of season 4 somehow feels incomplete just by itself.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,102
Age
38
Eh, it’s a wash. 7 has great set up and payoff, but a horrible part three and four, whereas four has lousy payoff and a strange beginning, but a great middle. If Joss ever decides to leave shows casting large numbers of petites in period clothing and goes back into comics, a “Remastering” of Season 4 & 7 as they were supposed to be without the sequel build or casting issues might be fun.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Hail Hydra 💀
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
6,889
Black Thorn
Angel S4 for me. Even though it's my least favourite season of the show. Spin the Bottle, the return of bad ass Faith, Witchy Willow...some of the best moments ever.

The MAIN thing I like about Buffy S7 is the Sluggoth demon eating that girl's puppy. 😅 And a few Anya moments, of course. Everything else? Blech.
 
Taake
Taake
HEY! What did that puppy ever do to you? :p

Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
6,254
Black Thorn
Angel season 4 by a mile! Buffy had became a hollow version of itself by season 7, and Angel season 4 happens to be my favourite of the Buffyverse, for my own twisted reasons, so I go with AtS season 4. I love it! Also not an Angel stan, whatever that means, I just really enjoy the arc and the character interactions.
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
7,214
Location
Australia
Sineya
This is a bit of a tough one. I love the theme in Angel s4, I fall for free will vs peace EVERY TIME - but I think Agents of Shield and The 100 both did it better.

So my answer is season 7 of Buffy. Chosen is just an a great episode, and a good way to end the series as it was at that stage. I can watch and re-watch the last disc of the series again and again and still cheer when Buffy says "Get out of my face". Him was hilarious, its nice to see Dawn grow into herself. Selfless was another hit and I enjoyed Conversations wuth Dead people too cos I learned about marshmellows in the microwave. I also enjoy the Scoobies being out of school and into life, and despite Spikes history, its nice for Buffy to have another powered being outside of the core 4. Worst part of s7 is Andrew who beats Cordy's hideous outfits hands down,
 

WillowFromBuffy

Buffering...
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
484
Age
31
@Bluebird
There're so many of you, so maybe it's me and not you. All I know is that S4 is a complete alien entity to me. None of it signifies or computes in my brain.
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
Tbh I can completely understand why people don't like it. Very Marmite as the English say.

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,075
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
Okay, these are the two big apocalypse seasons so the choice is fairly simple; which apocalypse was the best executed, the smartest, the most epic, the most dangerous and interesting?

Well...AtS 4 of course, easily. Not even a question. Unstoppable rock baddies, reign of fire, sneaky, manipulative bad guy, understandable Big Bad, interesting philosophical themes, questions about morality.
Okay evil Cordy sucks but... The First is way worse.

BtVS S7 is just...the evil plot and the way its executed is full of massive plot hole upon massive plot hole. The First's master plan is utterly stupid and then we have Buffy's plan to out-stupid it with the power of feels.
A complete fail in terms of apocalypse, it just doesn't work if you think about it at all. The fans just shout 'female empowerment!' so they don't have to actually analyse anything. The season gets by on a lot of fun, nostalgia and feels but not much else.

AtS 4 always and forever.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,165
Age
29
The First's master plan is utterly stupid
The First's plan in and of itself is fairly logical. To eliminate the slayer line, you kill off the potentials then work your way back to the two active slayers. If Slayers "keep the balance" between good and evil, then eliminating them would allow the forces of evil to run amok. However, it's the execution of the plan that's diabolical.

The first shot itself in its foot by involving Spike, if it hadn't done that then he would've gotten further along in its plan before Buffy realised what it was up to.

Digging up the scythe was probably the first's stupidest move, there was literally no benefit to the first doing that.

Then there was the plot hole of saying the last surviving potentials were heading to Buffy's house for protection yet there being dozens of potentials still out in the world for Buffy to activate.

Also I think it would've been better if the first had been the first evil being rather than the personification for evil itself. At least then Buffy could kill it rather than it still existing.

and then we have Buffy's plan to out-stupid it with the power of feels.
Agreed. Also Buffy activating all of the potentials kind of contradicts the ramifications of Buffy's resurrection. There is only supposed to be one slayer at any time. The only reason that Kendra and Faith were able to exist alongside Buffy without consequence is because Buffy was brought back through non-magical means by Xander, therefore there was no "disturbance in the force". However Willow magically resurrecting Buffy threw everything off balance because Buffy was actually dead and thus shouldn't exist, hence why the first was able to take advantage. Therefore, Buffy magicking up a whole load of new slayers should through "balance in the force" completely for a loop.
 
thetopher
thetopher
To be clear I meant the execution of the plan which is nonsensical. Why use Spike at all? Why lead Buffy right to the scythe? I could go on and on... I have a list somewhere. ;)
B
Btvs fan
Lets not forget the First shows up in Chosen to tell Buffy the empowering plan. Like why would it do that 🤷‍♂️

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
778
Age
47
The First's plan in and of itself is fairly logical. To eliminate the slayer line, you kill off the potentials then work your way back to the two active slayers. If Slayers "keep the balance" between good and evil, then eliminating them would allow the forces of evil to run amok. However, it's the execution of the plan that's diabolical.

The first shot itself in its foot by involving Spike, if it hadn't done that then he would've gotten further along in its plan before Buffy realised what it was up to.

Digging up the scythe was probably the first's stupidest move, there was literally no benefit to the first doing that.

Then there was the plot hole of saying the last surviving potentials were heading to Buffy's house for protection yet there being dozens of potentials still out in the world for Buffy to activate.

Also I think it would've been better if the first had been the first evil being rather than the personification for evil itself. At least then Buffy could kill it rather than it still existing.



Agreed. Also Buffy activating all of the potentials kind of contradicts the ramifications of Buffy's resurrection. There is only supposed to be one slayer at any time. The only reason that Kendra and Faith were able to exist alongside Buffy without consequence is because Buffy was brought back through non-magical means by Xander, therefore there was no "disturbance in the force". However Willow magically resurrecting Buffy threw everything off balance because Buffy was actually dead and thus shouldn't exist, hence why the first was able to take advantage. Therefore, Buffy magicking up a whole load of new slayers should through "balance in the force" completely for a loop.
I don't think involving Spike is that bad a plan it keeps him out of the fight and sows seeds of doubt in both his own and other people's minds as to his reliability. If it is a bad plan it's because it's the First just can't pass up a chance to dick with someone it despises - Angelus messing with Buffy rather than killing her was counter productive sometimes true evil falls victim to its desire to have it's fun rather than achieve its aim TV tropes calls it Dick Dastardly Stops to Cheat syndrome. Dick would be better off continuing to race but I think his desire to mess everyone else up gets the better of him.
 
B
Btvs fan
He was out the fight. He was guilt ridden and insane in a basement. He wasn't going anywhere

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Messages
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I don't think involving Spike is that bad a plan it keeps him out of the fight and sows seeds of doubt in both his own and other people's minds as to his reliability.
It's messing with Spike that puts Buffy onto the First. Also kidnapping Spike just pissed Buffy off and made her more determined. If the first had left Spike out then it could've gone unnoticed for a longer amount of time.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Messages
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It was mostly Giles, if Giles would have been killed then Buffy wouldn' t have known about the potentials.
That would've been awkward if potentials just started turning up at Buffy's house yet Giles wasn't around to give her the heads up. It would be stupid for Buffy to just invite them in. Amanda might get an invite because Dawn knows her but not the others. :p
 

katmobile

Scooby
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Jun 17, 2018
Messages
778
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It's messing with Spike that puts Buffy onto the First. Also kidnapping Spike just pissed Buffy off and made her more determined. If the first had left Spike out then it could've gone unnoticed for a longer amount of time.
It underestimates Buffy's compassion and forgiveness and understanding. True evil can't understand good.
 

Btvs fan

Scooby
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
664
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38
Comparing the First to Jasmine motivation. It was much more complex. She wanted to help people and bring joy to there lives albiet with the sacrifice of eating people while she did it. Hell they could've gone deeper and had her point out that everytime Angelus got out murdered people before Angel comes back, that they (angel gang) would and did regard as a necessary sacrifice to getting Angel back. Sadly the show didn't go there and Jasmine final moments were being a cheesy villain with cheesy lines. Even so it was still better than the First
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Shouldn't Jasmine's "World peace" have affected Buffy and co over in Sunnydale?
 
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