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Oklahoma lawmakers seek new abortion law

Spanky

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They are trying to get legislature passed which makes abortions homicide. Regardless of the situation of why the abortion was needed, it will still be considered homicide. Moreover, it would also allow for relatives to sue the woman (maybe the physician also) for damages. Wow.

SB 13 prohibits the use of abortion in any circumstance. The measure’s intent is to provide to unborn children the equal protection of the laws of this state. Any abortion procedure that results in the death of an unborn child is subject to the same laws governing homicide, manslaughter, justifiable homicide, and excusable homicide. Additionally, wrongful damages may be recovered by representatives of the deceased. SB 13 will eliminate exemptions previously granted in state law that permit abortion. Physicians, physician assistants, abortion clinics, and counseling services cannot provide any counseling, referrals, or services related to abortion. No exceptions are allowed under the measure. The measure repeals all other sections of law related to governing the use of abortion. The measure further states that regardless of any contrary or conflicting federal statutes, regulations, executive orders, or court decisions, the Attorney General shall continue to enforce laws related to homicide and abortions. Any ruling or law contradicting this measure is deemed to be unconstitutional and void and no federal suits may be entered to challenge the measure, should it pass.
 
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Joan the Vampire Slayer
Yeah. Oklahoma is incredibly anti-abortion. It may not pass though.

The Bronze

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This was the explicit aim of a large section of people voting for Trump. Whatever issues they may otherwise have with him their priority was to criminalise women making decisions about their own body. This is (amongst other things) why there were mass protests after the election and surrounding the Supreme Court appointment.

Hopefully everyone who has condemned protesters and suggested they should shut up and accept their lot in life will begin to understand the gravity of the situation.
 
Taake
Taake
The mass protests against the guy who ended up protecting Planned Parenthood in December 2018. Oh, the demon.

Buffy Summers

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Sineya
Except that Supreme Court appointment actually was probably the best chance the Democrats had, since Kavanaugh believes in the strict application of the Constitution and that it's not the Supreme Court's job to legislate from the bench . But none of them bothered to look beyond the person appointing him.

The situation is not grave - this will never become a law. It's a ploy for support from ultra right wingers.
 

Ethan Reigns

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Except that Supreme Court appointment actually was probably the best chance the Democrats had, since Kavanaugh believes in the strict application of the Constitution and that it's not the Supreme Court's job to legislate from the bench . But none of them bothered to look beyond the person appointing him.

The situation is not grave - this will never become a law. It's a ploy for support from ultra right wingers.
Don't count on it. The only part of the law that will be challenged is the state law superseding federal law. A lot of tyranny has come into the world and announced its intentions beforehand. Das Kapital, Mein Kampf and SB13 are all indications of what was to happen.
 

The Bronze

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@Taake & @Buffy Summers

I don't know the full picture about Kavanaugh and his policies or judgements. I think openly lying in front of the court before you're appointed to it should probably disqualify you but that's probably it's own discussion.

The point still stands on its own merit though I feel. A number of people voted Trump (some through gritted teeth) because they wanted a republican appointment to tip the balance of the Supreme Court, thus allowing for the prospect of greater restrictions on women's rights like those suggested here. That's why I mentioned the protests and why I feel people were too quick to dismiss them as sour grapes rather than genuine serious concern for themselves and others.

If that's not how it plays out in the end then that's good news and to be applauded.
 

white avenger

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They are trying to get legislature passed which makes abortions homicide. Regardless of the situation of why the abortion was needed, it will still be considered homicide. Moreover, it would also allow for relatives to sue the woman (maybe the physician also) for damages. Wow.
I wonder how this will affect women who travel to other states to have the work done. Or whether the family members will be able to sue the out of state doctors.

I think we have the proverbial can of worms here, just begging to be opened.
 

Joan the Vampire Slayer

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I feel very bad for any woman in Oklahoma who finds herself accidentally pregnant and doesn't want to have the baby, regardless of reason.

I'm thinking about moving to Oklahoma, but this does give me pause. I mean, I get being pro life but this is out of control.
 

Taake

Maybe it was taquitos. Maybe he lived for taquitos
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They are trying to get legislature passed which makes abortions homicide. Regardless of the situation of why the abortion was needed, it will still be considered homicide. Moreover, it would also allow for relatives to sue the woman (maybe the physician also) for damages. Wow.

SB 13 prohibits the use of abortion in any circumstance. The measure’s intent is to provide to unborn children the equal protection of the laws of this state. Any abortion procedure that results in the death of an unborn child is subject to the same laws governing homicide, manslaughter, justifiable homicide, and excusable homicide. Additionally, wrongful damages may be recovered by representatives of the deceased. SB 13 will eliminate exemptions previously granted in state law that permit abortion. Physicians, physician assistants, abortion clinics, and counseling services cannot provide any counseling, referrals, or services related to abortion. No exceptions are allowed under the measure. The measure repeals all other sections of law related to governing the use of abortion. The measure further states that regardless of any contrary or conflicting federal statutes, regulations, executive orders, or court decisions, the Attorney General shall continue to enforce laws related to homicide and abortions. Any ruling or law contradicting this measure is deemed to be unconstitutional and void and no federal suits may be entered to challenge the measure, should it pass.
Meanwhile in Virgina… I used to think third-trimester abortions was just a pro-life conspiracy, but clearly not... this makes me heartsick.
Virginia governor under fire for comments on late-term abortion bill


At a recent committee hearing, Republican state delegate Todd Gilbert asked Tran to clarify exactly how late in a pregnancy doctors would be able to perform abortions. Gilbert asked if a woman who was about to give birth could request an abortion under Tran's proposed bill.
"She has physical signs that she is about to give birth. Would that be a point at which she could still request an abortion if she is so certified? She's dilating," Gilbert said.
"Mr. Chairman, that would be a, you know, a decision that the doctor, the physician and the woman would make at this point," Tran responded.
"I understand that. I'm asking if your bill allows that," Gilbert posed.
"My bill would allow that, yes," she said.


So, it's either approving of no abortions at all or approving infanticide at this point? :/
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
It sounds like she was pushed fo give an answer. I very much doubt that is a common situation, if you're that late in the pregnancy and you abort it's for some serious heartbreaking reason, not that women are murdering babies.
HoppyHippy
HoppyHippy
2 of my friends have had prem babies in the last month - they are proper little humans, not an embryo. I don't know how anyone can end the life of a child at that stage. It makes me cry, and I HATE babies.

Taake

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@Bluebird I watched clips of the questioning, she didn't seem pushed to me though I can see how the transcript gives that impression. Guess it all depends on whose life you value more, but "safe and rare" is not an argument that cuts it for me when you're talking about snapping spinal cords of fully viable babies. *shrug* I think both sides of this are being too radical in their policies, but it seems to annoy people more when you even hint at a defense of pro-life.
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
I watched the video before posting

Bluebird

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That's the thing, I didn't take it as snapping baby spinal chords, I would have imagined that in rare cases when stillborn or severe problems that hadn't been detected a mother still has a choice. If it was not viable.

I think people are too quick to jump to infanticide hysteria at mention of later term abortions (when there is actual reasons), and that's why some people would get annoyed.

Not like these laws affect me, but there is some disparity between states. I'd be so confused.
 

Taake

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That's the thing, I didn't take it as snapping baby spinal chords, I would have imagined that in rare cases when stillborn or severe problems that hadn't been detected a mother still has a choice. If it was not viable.

I think people are too quick to jump to infanticide hysteria at mention of later term abortions (when there is actual reasons), and that's why some people would get annoyed.

Not like these laws affect me, but there is some disparity between states. I'd be so confused.
Guess it is all about perspective since I see the hysteria from the opposite end. But then I live in an extremely pro-choice environment where any mention of restrictions causes insane one sided debates.

I took it as snapping spinal cords judging by the governor’s comments on post-birth euthanasia, which presupposes a viable fetus. This wasn’t included in that article though.
 
Bluebird
Bluebird
I sometimes forget where you're from cos you foreigners speak the English good

Bluebird

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Guess it is all about perspective since I see the hysteria from the opposite end. But then I live in an extremely pro-choice environment where any mention of restrictions causes insane debates.

I took it as snapping spinal cords judging by the governor’s comments on post-birth euthanasia, which presupposes a viable fetus. This wasn’t included in that article though.
Actually, I've got quite a few acquaintances from Sweden and they say the same thing, so the different perspective makes sense. We have almost literally zero debate over it in Scotland. I don't mean everyone is in agreement, it's just never brought up.

My personal opinion has always been bodily autonomy for every law, not just abortion, so it's just side shoot of my overall beliefs.
 

ILLYRIAN

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Lets consider this, them anti abortion clinic folk seem to be promoting those people in the clinics shouldn't be allowed to live: are they saying it is okay for them to murder people but not for anyone else?
 

HoppyHippy

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My views on abortion are ever evolving. At this stage my stance sees abortion as something that needs to be restricted. Not to the point of criminalising all involved but certainly a little less freedom as to the age and situation of the infant.

I do not like the idea of aborting children with dis/divers-abilities. That is one step off selective breeding for a master race.

Even children of rape can contribute to this world. They are the truly innocent in that situation. Adoption is an option. Even for severely handicapped children. I have people in my life who have used it as a form of birth control, and I do know women who live with regret.

If I put too many words to this it will get jumbled, but I really hope that all in the world get to experience life with people who live with alternative abilities. Autism is the buzz word right now, but I am talking people who are restricted by physical limitations and those unable to communicate. I hope you can see the joy they are still able to bring to the world by being given the chance to exist. I have been lucky enough to coach so many children who's Doctors did not expect them to live.
 
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thrasherpix
thrasherpix
As you well know, women have other things to do than carry babies, especially one that was forced upon them...and children who know they were conceived in rape rarely take it well (I've heard of more than one that committed suicide).
Taake
Taake
"My views on abortion are ever evolving." Agreed
GraceK
GraceK
Don’t agree with abortion ? Don’t get one. Wow that was easy! 😊 Have all the opinions you want, just keep the government out of my uterus 👍🏻

ILLYRIAN

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HoppyHippy, Even children of rape can contribute to the world.

The way I see it is those anti abortion 'things' forcing the victim of the actual rape having to put up with the pain of childbirth.
Should the birth of that child cause the death of the rape victim will the anti abortion 'things' be charged with murder?
Not in this society. unfortunately
 

ILLYRIAN

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Maybe them Oklahoma lawmakers are seeking new abortion laws given that they are were saved from the abortionists clamps and turned out to be such useless ruddy wozzocks.
 
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