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Parker instead of Riley?

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Black sun/blood moon
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
5,548
Black Thorn
Nothing dramatic. Just like rape fantasies. Stuff like that. Sometimes with props. Knife. Gun. Rope. Etc. No one asked me (that I can recall) to punch them. At least not in the face. In the gut, yeah. But not "like hard" either.
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Spanky
Spanky
Oh I gots stories about that too.
HoppyHippy
HoppyHippy
So, thats what happens in Black Thorn ay

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
9,661
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
I think a massive, stinging slap would've maybe been more humiliating. Like Riley just slapping Parker really hard in the face and then walking away in disgust. Like 'a complete lack of respect for this douche bag who isn't worth an actual punch' kinda deal.
...And then Riley says 'If you're gonna mouth off like a bitch then I'll slap you like one!' ...Or not really because that's not him at all, despite what his detractors might think.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Messages
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The Moot, England
Sineya
Kinda like those guys at Victorian Times that were slapping one another with their fancy dress gloves?
Yeah, perhaps Riley could challenge Parker to some kind of duel for Buffy's honor?

'You, sir, are a ruffian and a bounder!' *slap*
'And you, sir, presume too much to interfere with my peronage with such vulgarity!' *throws down glove*
'You, you cur, deserve that and much more. So I propose that we settle it, on the quad, in no less than one half-hour'
'Indeed, sir!'

*then then proceed to have a crotch-kicking contest, as is the manner of duel that they have both agreed upon.*
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Black sun/blood moon
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
5,548
Black Thorn
Kinda like those guys at Victorian Times that were slapping one another with their fancy dress gloves?
When they were challenging each other to a duel, right? As Eric Cartman might say, "Gay! With a capital...GAY!" :p


Yeah, perhaps Riley could challenge Parker to some kind of duel for Buffy's honor?

'You, sir, are a ruffian and a bounder!' *slap*
'And you, sir, presume too much to interfere with my peronage with such vulgarity!' *throws down glove*
'You, you cur, deserve that and much more. So I propose that we settle it, on the quad, in no less than one half-hour'
'Indeed, sir!'

*then then proceed to have a crotch-kicking contest, as is the manner of duel that they have both agreed upon.*
That is far too complicated. Punching is sexier. And just plain fun. 😈 *punches @thetopher and runs*
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,308
Age
36
Cameron (Go Fish) = Parker. Buffy was not impressed with him (though she gave him a chance, I felt in SPITE OF his poetry about the ocean), and when he pushed for more she slammed his head against the steering wheel. She also wasn't impressed with the college guys in Reptile Boy (and went to that party because of reasons other than them), and surely she'd have learned to be more wary of them after that. With notable exceptions (Ted), Buffy didn't typically distrust people but she saw through them fast enough (like Ford, and if there was any one person she should've been fooled by outside of Angel and the Core Four until it was too late then it should've been him). While her investigative skills definitely need to be honed, she does well enough in this season and the next, and she's pretty good about compiling (and eliminating from suspicion) suspects.

All this tells me that Buffy would not have been impressed by Parker. At the very least Parker would've had to spent longer than he liked on her, and she'd have much more likely caught him chatting up another girl (and then seen through him) before they got into bed.

But Joss Whedon had grander things in mind for Buffy. He turned her into what Joss thinks is a "typical college girl." Of course plenty of girls are that gullible and vulnerable, but Buffy is not one of them. While that's my opinion, I'm glad that SMG probably the only one to think about Buffy more than Joss, agrees with me on that much.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,308
Age
36
@HoppyHippy I knew an ex-nun who described convent life. There is a surprising amount of drama that goes on there, as bad as high school in its own way. She had such conflicts with the Mother Superior that at one point they were both rolling down a hill as they exchanged punches! (There were "office politics" through the church that she and her convent got pulled into that are as bad as anywhere else which was another source of stress for her.) I hear how callous and mean nuns can be, and after listening to her describe what the actual life of a nun is like, I can't blame them for often being in bad moods! :eek:

On top of that, there are people who strangely fetishize nuns...and a few who naively think that nuns would be free of any STDs (not to say that nuns are promiscuous, but they had lives before joining, and some joined in part because they'd been raped first) and thus target them for sex crimes. So she had some really creepy encounters when outside the convent and by those who visit.

Just saying, it's not the path for someone who just wants an "easy life without men messing it up." Though on the plus side, they can't strap you down to a bed and pump you up full of nauseating drugs or otherwise treat you as being without legal rights, so it's still better than previous places you've been in.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Messages
6,123
Age
28
Parker and Buffy did spend time together before the HLOD party and before they slept together so it's not like that was their first date and Buffy hopped into bed with him.

I don't blame Buffy for sleeping with Parker, because Parker spent a ridiculous amount of time with a girl who was supposed to be merely a one night stand. It wasn't like he sweet talked her into bed after meeting her at the HLOD party, he invested time and effort and the HLOD party was essentially him closing the deal. He had to set up the ground work, get her to trust him etc. It seems like days of effort for one night of sex.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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Age
36
I don't blame Buffy for sleeping with Parker, because Parker spent a ridiculous amount of time with a girl who was supposed to be merely a one night stand. It wasn't like he sweet talked her into bed after meeting her at the HLOD party, he invested time and effort and the HLOD party was essentially him closing the deal. He had to set up the ground work, get her to trust him etc. It seems like days of effort for one night of sex.
Not really. He was AROUND her for a couple of weeks, but then he finally learns very basic information about her. That means their hanging around was essentially just being in the same place together, not getting to know each other.

After that, it happened fast, and would've almost certainly happened faster if Buffy didn't keep getting pulled away from him by Slayer business. And Parker didn't even talk about himself, but the same lame kind of stuff as Cameron did, and the type of stuff she was never interested in before (though she did check out that one book of poetry in season 1 because she had a crush on a guy).
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Not really. He was AROUND her for a couple of weeks, but then he finally learns very basic information about her. That means their hanging around was essentially just being in the same place together, not getting to know each other.
They would've small talked with each other, Parker would've been laying ground work. I doubt they would've been in the same place and not acknowledged or spoken to each other. Parker and Buffy had been out a couple of times together before HLOD. Parker certainly told Buffy what she wanted to hear, playing the sensitive guy.

I think Buffy likes to play the protector role in her relationships. She was very protective of Angel, she was protective of Spike in Season 7, she tried to be protective of Riley but he didn't like that because he wanted to be the "protector". Parker's "sensitive guy" act would make it seem like she could play the "protector" (Spike says that Parker has "vulnerability"), only for him to turn around and use her shamelessly.
 
K
katmobile
She's also very vulnerable and wants to feel loved

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
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Sep 11, 2017
Messages
759
Age
37
Yes, Frosh co-eds do occasionally hook up with unscrupulous upperclassmen. So, yes, Buffy as a slice of life didactic. Is it something a girl who broke the come hither of Master Vampires through strength of will alone at 16 would do? No. Parker... Here's the problem. Buffy characters didn't really have casual sex until season 6, and we know how well that turned out. Second, Buffy writters couldn't figure out to write the Normal men in Buffy's life without emasculating them. That why Buffy dates vampires and Supersoldiers.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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Messages
2,308
Age
36
It might be worth noting that I show a genuine interest in people, especially if I'm attracted to them. I know this isn't unusual given how many will google their crushes to learn whatever trivial details they can even down to what organizations they were part of as a kid, but not everyone does.

I was starting to list examples of how incredibly gullible some people could be who were fooled for years (so maybe it could happen to Buffy), and realized they were all guys (gay and straight), never a woman (though women can be skilled when it comes to denial). This is about the simplest stuff like for YEARS not noticing a lack of pictures, not seeing the work clothes and uniform in a closet, not meeting family or friends even though he's supposedly committed, and sometimes not even allowed to visit or call him or her at home. It's not being nosy or intrusive to notice these things (as it would be to hack into their phone or read their diary), it's just knowing someone. (I'm not even counting those I don't believe, like the guy who claims he didn't realize the middle schooler was underage despite that he picked her up from her middle school on a regular basis.)

Now that someone would say think Parker was cute and jump in his bed is believable to me, but not want commitment. Being in close proximity and making small talk doesn't form intimate bonds...at least not for me and anyone I know, and Buffy isn't shown to be that way either (that's more Faith's thing).

And while I can see Buffy with her abandonment issues reacting poorly to how she was used, those fears are also why she's cautious, and probably have a lot to do with why she was cautious (and often downright wary) as she got to know Angel and Riley better before reaching the point of sexual intimacy. The exception to this is magic (like Xander's miscast spell or the enchanted jacket). And yet this changes with Parker, or as I call him, Cameron 2.0. Her intuition and her sense along with life experience is just gone.

Right or wrong, I just can't help but think Joss was writing Buffy as how Joss views the "typical college girl" rather than the individual.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Right or wrong, I just can't help but think Joss was writing Buffy as how Joss views the "typical college girl" rather than the individual.
I think Buffy was eager to move on from Angel and she'd pinned Parker as the guy to help her do it. Parker sweet talked her and she thought it was a blossoming love, she still pined after him even after he'd dumped her. Buffy's emotions clouded her judgement, don't forget Buffy's first meeting with Parker was within her first week of college when she was really confused and adrift in her new environment. The fact Parker was friendly towards her and seemed to have an interest in her would make her view him positively, why would be suspicious of a guy who has been nothing but nice to her? Why would she think he would treat her poorly after they slept together?

Buffy's trouble was that at this stage of the game, she'd still quite inexperienced when it comes to sexual relationships. A man left her after sleeping with her for her first time, therefore it couldn't possibly happen again on her second time, right? She's surprised Riley is still there after she sleeps with him on her third time.

Neither Buffy, Willow or Xander are very sexually experienced at this stage of the game. Buffy slept with Angel(us) who left her afterwards, Xander slept with Faith who kicked him out afterwards). The only one whose first sexual partner stuck around was Willow with Oz but she only slept with him at the end of Season 3 and he was gone by the end of the first quarter of Season 4.
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
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why would be suspicious of a guy who has been nothing but nice to her? Why would she think he would treat her poorly after they slept together?
Experience. Examples off the top of my head, besides Angel/us (a special case), Ted (as she personally didn't like him from the start), and Giles (not sure how to classify his betrayal of her on her 18th), include in Lie to Me, Anne (Ken), and Reptile Boy. I bet she never for a moment suspected the Mayor of anything for a long while. and Beauty and the Beast is another lesson for her on not making snap judgments over what seems like a nice guy.

But what really factors in here is Earshot. Gods, what an eye opening experience about human nature that must've been...

Buffy's trouble was that at this stage of the game, she'd still quite inexperienced when it comes to sexual relationships. A man left her after sleeping with her for her first time, therefore it couldn't possibly happen again on her second time, right? She's surprised Riley is still there after she sleeps with him on her third time.
It's more like a cat that jumps on a hot burner won't jump on another...nor a cold one either. At least not without a lot of caution. Her experience with Angel (which I don't have a problem with character wise, and how she was with Angel has a lot to do with why I don't buy her being so easy for Parker to manipulate) should've made her even MORE cautious, not less.

Neither Buffy, Willow or Xander are very sexually experienced at this stage of the game. Buffy slept with Angel(us) who left her afterwards, Xander slept with Faith who kicked him out afterwards). The only one whose first sexual partner stuck around was Willow with Oz but she only slept with him at the end of Season 3 and he was gone by the end of the first quarter of Season 4.
Buffy spent a long while with Angel, unlike Parker, so that's completely different to me, and also shows her personality well which is tossed away for the Parker arc. Xander doesn't even figure in here as that was hardly seduction, that was just Faith jumping his bones. Unlike Buffy and Parker, I find Oz and Willow true to their characters. It's not about the consequences in the story, it's about their personality that led them to those consequences in the first place. And just in case you think I'm "wagging my finger" at Buffy then drop that notion, as that's not it at all.

Oh, and I meant to mention earlier, when Spike described Parker as having "vulnerability," I took that as Spike letting Buffy know he could kill Parker (especially if she starts trouble right here and now).
 

DeadlyDuo

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And just in case you think I'm "wagging my finger" at Buffy then drop that notion, as that's not it at all.
You come off as quite passive aggressive with this sentence, especially as at no point have I insinuated you are "wagging your finger" at Buffy, and you demand that I "drop that notion" of which again I have never even insinuated.

Knock it off, it's unnecessary and uncalled for.

Oh, and I meant to mention earlier, when Spike described Parker as having "vulnerability," I took that as Spike letting Buffy know he could kill Parker (especially if she starts trouble right here and now).
Of course Spike was making an idle threat against Parker, Parker was human and wouldn't stand a chance against Spike or any other element of Buffy's "world". However, in all of Buffy's relationships, she's taken on a protective role at some point. Riley didn't like that, hence why he was so preoccupied with telling people what Buffy "needs". Spike highlighting Parker's "vulnerability" would only push Buffy's protective instinct. Even in her daydreams, Buffy saves Parker from a demon or vampire and he thanks her and wants to get back together with her. Again, she's playing he protector role.

With Ted, it could be argued that Buffy's slayer instinct told her something was off though she didn't know what. With Ford she spotted the vampire (who was a minion of Spike's) that he said he killed so she instantly knew he was lying and decided to find out why. With Ken, Buffy started investigating after Ricky's disappearance, and with the Mayor, Buffy wasn't spending time with him or had any emotional connection to him.

Even with Giles, Buffy was hurt, but the circumstances around that betrayal were more the Watchers Council than Giles deciding to betray her of his own volition.

The point is, Buffy didn't have any romantic feelings for all the others, she had romantic feelings for Parker and thought he returned them, ergo she was more susceptible to his sweet talk. She didn't hop into bed with him after just one day, it took some time before they slept together, you seem to be forgetting that Parker is no amateur in picking up freshmen girls, he probably adapts his routine to fit the girl. If he knows Buffy's been hurt romantically in the past, then guess what? So has he! And rather then let that get him down, he's decided to move on and grab life with both hands etc. Parker fakes a connection with a girl to draw her in. Should Buffy have fallen for his lies given her past experiences? No. Is it possible to see how she might've? Yes.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Apologies. Others sometimes feel a character is either criticized as if real, or if we're complaining that Buffy isn't written as a Mary Sue, when neither is the case, it just happened too fast for her character to me, regardless of Parker's intent

Dora

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52
Is she, though? Tom is able to charm her in S2. Also, it is hard to differ between wisdom and cynicism. A cynical person might be able to see through Parker's ruse, not because they are discerning, but simply because they are generally distrustful. I can't really remember any time when Buffy is able to anticipate a betrayal, even when she should, and I think I would say that that is to her credit.
She was on the rebound from Angel and looking for love and that would possible cloud her vision with Parker, but sleeping with him the first night as she did ....noway..... she would have taken herself as a slut
 

WillowFromBuffy

Stalky the Clown!
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She was on the rebound from Angel and looking for love and that would possible cloud her vision with Parker, but sleeping with him the first night as she did ....noway..... she would have taken herself as a slut
I'm not gonna tell you what I think you take yourself as.
 
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