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Parker

Discussion in 'Season 4' started by dcai0830, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. dcai0830

    dcai0830 You spent three weeks moaning in a basement!

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    Black Thorn
    I don't often re-watch Season 4 because it was my least favorite but I am forcing myself to re-watch it beginning to end right now to try and find some appreciation for it.

    During my recent re-watch, I am struck by how I didn't remember how obsessed Buffy was with Parker after they slept together. And I gotta say I'm puzzled as to why. It's not like Buffy knew Parker very well and he isn't all that great looking. But she sits depressed and pining for him for episodes after he brushes her off.

    I can't help but feel that the Parker obsession/depression stuff had more to do with her still reeling about Angel leaving her and her already deep seeded abandonment issues. That is the only way this makes sense to me.

    What are some of ya'lls thoughts on Buffy's Parker crush. Was it OOC? What did she see in him? Was this brooding time really about Parker or something else?
     
  2. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    I think Buffy was particularly upset because she had sex with Parker, and to her that means something special (She's only had sex with Angel before this). So she felt used by him, and tricked when after they had sex Parker didn't treat her with respect.
    It might have been an unwelcome reminder to when 'Angel' didn't treat her with respect after her and Angel's first time.
     
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  3. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Well she expected more than a one night stand, and didn't understand why Parker didn't want that. We've all experienced that guy or girl we really like who doesn't quite like us back in the same way.

    I think Buffy saw Parker as being the 'safe' option to sleep with, because he was human and wouldn't therefore turn evil on her. She just didn't expect him to not be keen on a relationship with her.

    I think she pines for him more because of that rejection. Had they ended up in a relationship, I don't think she'd be that keen on him. ;)
     
  4. Fool for Buffy

    Fool for Buffy BFF of Sour Patch Kid

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    Sineya
    I think it's OOC for Buffy to like Parker because he looks exactly like Xander. I mean he could have played the other Xander in The Replacement. But it's not that surprising for her to feel for him personality wise. He's just a standard bs college guy. Even the best of women fall for those guys.
     
  5. flow

    flow Will you just hold me ?

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    I think @Athene is right. To Buffy it was like history repeating itself. She has sex with a guy and the guy turns evil. I don`t think she was ever in love with Parker. It was traumatic because it happened again.

    Flow
     
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  6. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul Scooby

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    Except that this is where the Parker thing simply did not work for me. And the show trying to equate it to Angel/Angelus just doesn't work. Angel/Angelus was the metaphor for the Parker's of the world. That was the whole point. It can't be seen as the same. I've had this issue already in S3 when Buffy talked with the school psychologist because Angel was a metaphor. You can't try and turn around and equate it to a real situation. Then it's not a metaphor anymore. And for Buffy to equate the two (Angel/Parker) is the beginning of the decline of Buffy in terms of her romantic life. Parker chose to be an ass, Angel had no choice. But apparently Buffy thinks differently, Angel chose to go evil after sleeping with her. WTF woman???
     
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  7. dcai0830

    dcai0830 You spent three weeks moaning in a basement!

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    Black Thorn
    The scene in the counselor's office was also annoying to me. The metaphor worked well in Season 2 because it was a bid bad/monster metaphor. But then the parallels between the abusive relationship in Beauty and the Beast and comparing it to Angel who, unlike most abusive relationships, actually turned into a monster was not a valid parallel.

    But the Parker thing, I always saw as showing how an ensouled guy could be just as shitty as the monster that Angel became. So for that reason, I thought it was a cool twist and a good lesson for Buffy to learn. But then Buffy obsesses over Parker for episode after episode and then I'm like what is the deal here? I understand being upset, feeling used, feeling like the sex meant something. I don't understand her staring at him, fantasizing about him, trying to explain away his behavior etc.
     
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  8. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul Scooby

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    You can't equate metaphor and the literal. As the metaphor is supposed to represent the literal but not in a literal way. But equating Angel with Pete in S3 or Parker in S4 just doesn't work. The psychologist is making his point by addressing the literal which works for someone like Pete but not Angel. I know Buffy can't tell him that her situation is different but she shouldn't have taken the guy's word to heart (which I think she did) because it wasn't what happened to her. Parker doesn't work either because he's the literal to Angel's metaphorical and Buffy equating the two (again) by going 'does every guy turn evil after sex?', simply doesn't work. Because the literal situation is always that those guys CHOSE to be assholes and they were that long before a relationship/sex happened. They didn't 'turn evil' because of it, they were already there before it. Angel didn't chose to lose his soul and turn into an asshole. It's completely different. But like I said, this is the Season where Buffy's notions about romance/love start to become really weird and WTF-ish. Her 'Something Blue' monologue at the beginning (after her visiting Angel in IWRY) makes me want to bash my head against the wall. Because Whedon has Buffy take all the wrong lessons from her relationship with Angel and twist what little good there was into something ugly it wasn't.

    The problem was cut dialogue, as usual. If you have the DVD's it should be on the S4 overview I think. Buffy actually mentions that it's less about Parker and more about Angel but they had to cut the dialogue down due to overtime. Hence they left the audience with the impression that Buffy was mooning excessively over Parker which no one understood why.
     
  9. dcai0830

    dcai0830 You spent three weeks moaning in a basement!

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    Black Thorn
    OMG yes, you speak my mind (and you often do on these boards btw). And also, how is Angel supposed to fit the "bad boy"? Angelus was not her boyfriend, Angel was and I never saw him do anything that would have fit the "bad boy" stereotype.

    Interesting! I don't have the Season 4 DVD because I always disliked Season 4 but maybe I need to go get them. Is this additional dialogue in the shooting scripts?
     
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  10. RomanticSoul

    RomanticSoul Scooby

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    That's the least problem I have with her speech and it's already a total WTF moment for me. It's like Whedon had to twist Bangel, Angel and how Buffy perceived Bangel post-IWRY (since it's the end for Bangel there) in order to give Buffy her totally weird view of love/relationships.

    Don't know if it's in the script. I know it's said in the S4 special. If you are lucky the S4 overview might be on youtube, though I wouldn't know.
     
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  11. brittles

    brittles Scooby

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    Sineya

    I agree with Athene. Put yourself in her shoes. You go through this big horrible ordeal with your ex boyfriend and it takes you a long time to get over it. You're new to college, feeling vulnerable and out of place and finally some hot shot comes and shows interest in you, boosts your ego gets you to open up and drop your guard. He seems to be really taken by you, interested in who you are and what you have to say, builds what seems to be a great connection with you and bam you spend the night together. Come the mooring after and this guy is nowhere to be found and is replaced with someone who pretends like you don't even exist. Buffy isn't the sleep around type and as Athene this is only the 2nd guy she's slept with. I don't think her reaction to the situation is strange at all. It shows she has integrity and deepens her character and thats what makes her so relatable. She may be a badass when it comes to fighting demons but when it comes to guys and getting the brush off, she's just as vulnerable as the rest of us. I think it would have been way weird if she would have just been all zippidy doo dah and didn't care that Parker didn't want anything to do with her after. That seems much more along the personality traits of Faith rather than Buffy.
     
  12. brinkster130

    brinkster130 Riley's BFF Staff Member

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    Sineya
    It was her first college boy experience and she naively believed she was more important to him than she was. It's understandable to cling to someone when in a totally new situation. It sucks to fall for someone only to discover that the interest doesn't go beyond sex.
     
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  13. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Buffy and Parker did go on several dates though so you can see why she might have thought it was going to be a long term thing, it's not like it was one date then she hopped into bed with him.
     
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  14. brinkster130

    brinkster130 Riley's BFF Staff Member

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    Sineya
    I know, and I never meant to imply otherwise. She thought they were on track to becoming boyfriend and girlfriend and he was just in it for a casual good time. I totally understand Buffy in this situation, maybe my post didn't make that clear...
     
  15. crazysoulless

    crazysoulless Scooby

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    She slept with Parker in episode 3 and didn't mention him again after episode 5. The way fans talk you'd think she was still bringing it up by the season finale.

    Harsh light of day
    Fear Itself
    Beer bad

    That's only 2 1/2 episodes she got to show she was upset. At most, a couple of weeks.

    She had to go from "Was I not good?" at 17 years old to "It seemed like you liked me" at 18 years old.
     
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  16. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    After Cordelia left, there was no one in the Scooby gang who cold tell Buffy to get over herself and move on. Willow (for all her virtues) likes to wallow in pain, so she wasn't much help.

    One thing I hated about the Parker story was how they progressively made Parker more and more sleazy. It could have been a great lesson about how Buffy needed to learn that not every sexual encounter is a fairy tale. Then they ruined it by having Parker slut shame Buffy in front of the frat bro commandos.

    They do the same thing in other episodes. Buffy overreacts to something. Lo and behold! Turns out, the person was either a demon or a robot. Buffy was right all along. No lesson learned.

    I am not saying that what Parker did in his first episode was all right. Still, he was hardly the worst person you are likely to meet.
     
  17. Grace

    Grace Support-O-Gal

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    Black Thorn
    You've probably already looked this up, @dcai0830, but yes. From the shooting script online:

    And here's a quote from Jane Espenson about it:
     
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  18. MarieVampSlayer

    MarieVampSlayer I’m the thing that monsters have nightmares about!

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    Sineya
    I think the Parker thing had less to do with sex than with rejection. She was just rejected by Angel in S3 and he left to go to L.A. She saw Parker as a way to move on and maybe try a steady relationship with a human. But then he rejects her and she feels like there is something wrong with her that makes her undateable. I think this is a normal reaction after what she has been throught with Angel and the fact that she is no were near over him yet. But I don't think she would compare mean college Parker to evil sadistic Angelus.
     
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  19. Mr Trick

    Mr Trick Scooby

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    Tend to agree that part of Buffy's hurt is because of what happened with Angel. The point of the Parker storyline is clear as a life lesson for Buffy. I do think she over does it with pining post-Parker too. Ultimately she should have dealt with him how Willow did;)
     
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  20. dcai0830

    dcai0830 You spent three weeks moaning in a basement!

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    Black Thorn
    Yeah I could have used 22% less post Parker pining and I would’ve been fine.
     
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