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Plot Holes

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I could've sworn that we already had a thread for this, but I couldn't find it; if I'm wrong, then I apologize and of course, you can just merge this in with that.

It's amazing how, after all these years, I can still notice new things on a re-watch. Although I'm certain that some of you at least won't be surprised by this.

In Go Fish they make it very clear that there are three of those swim team monsters - three students have 'turned', three students are in that hole, eating the nurse - at the same time that a fourth one goes swimming in the pool and makes Cordelia think it's Xander. But in the end, when they are out at sea, there are again only three. And we never hear of a fourth member of the team going missing.

Giant plot-hole and it took me 22 years to catch it. Wow o_O

Have you found any after years of watching that you wonder why you never saw before?
 

RachM

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Don't know if it's really a plot hole, but whatever happened to those eggs Ms French left behind in Teacher's Pet? Always bugged me.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Don't know if it's really a plot hole, but whatever happened to those eggs Ms French left behind in Teacher's Pet? Always bugged me.
I think that Teacher's Pet, Out of Mind and Go Fish just end with sequel bait as a nod to that common horror movie trope. I don't think we were intended to expect an army of mantises to show up.
 
RachM
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I guess. Still bugs me :P

thrasherpix

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All I'll say on this is yes...it's like whenever I can head canon something away, a strange and even sloppy plot hole appears.

And even now I try very, very hard to insert a scene in my mind where Willow is cornered by the werewolf where others throw stones at it (or maybe dogs) so that he turns his attention to them and THAT'S what makes him go away so Willow can run, not that he's about to pounce when he catches a tantalizing aroma and wanders off so Willow can get back up, brush herself off, and run.
 

Priceless

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Not a plot hole as such, but I watched Lessons yesterday. I love the ending, but I wondered if Spike would have one single clue who that middle aged man in suit was, telling him that getting a soul is just jim-dandy. He'd recognise everyone else, but if he was hallucinating, who was The Mayor meant to be to him? Of course Spike was crazy so maybe none of it it made sense to him, it just struck me as odd.
 

Btvs fan

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Obvious one in Season 5 Angel. Wolfram and Hart give the amulet to Angel. Then it turns out it was all set up by Lindsey to trap Spike. Problem with this they'd have to know Angel would show it to Buffy and know she'd refuse him to wear it and give it to Spike. That's a lot of variables right there
 

Bluebird

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It's not really a plot hole per se, but I always wondered the details of the reworked memories of the AI team after Connor was removed from them, especially Wesley. Like why did he go rogue for real this time? How did he get his throat slit? Why did he sleep with Lilah with a redhead watching from the closet?
 

Spanky

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Obvious one in Season 5 Angel. Wolfram and Hart give the amulet to Angel. Then it turns out it was all set up by Lindsey to trap Spike. Problem with this they'd have to know Angel would show it to Buffy and know she'd refuse him to wear it and give it to Spike. That's a lot of variables right there
Pretty sure they mentioned somewhere the original goal was to ensnare Angel but Spike would suffice.
 

gnarl

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In the fifth season, the whole conclusion is based on the idea that Dawn is made of Buffy and that they share the same blood.
The problem for me is that the only person who ever says this is prior to The Gift is Buffy herself (in Blood Ties I think). As far as I know it's never confirmed by anyone else in the show.

I try to accept it as an insight from Buffy's slayer-psyche, but it still irritates me a bit.
They could have had the monk, or one of the 'brain sucked' people allude to it or something.
As it is, it feels like it's only true because Buffy wants it to be.

I don't let it get in the way of enjoying s5 though.
 

gnarl

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Not a plot hole as such, but I watched Lessons yesterday. I love the ending, but I wondered if Spike would have one single clue who that middle aged man in suit was, telling him that getting a soul is just jim-dandy. He'd recognise everyone else, but if he was hallucinating, who was The Mayor meant to be to him? Of course Spike was crazy so maybe none of it it made sense to him, it just struck me as odd.
The Mayor clearly knew who Spike was because he sent Vampires after him in Lovers Walk, so even if they never met, Spike l probably knew who he was and that he had tried to ascend.
 
Priceless
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Not sure Spike would have remembered that, bet gangs of vamps were always after Spike lol

Ethan Reigns

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During "The Gift", we see interdimensional portals opening and people turning into monsters and flying dragons. What happens when the portal closes again? Do we have dragons trapped in the world and people who have transformed into monstrous versions of themselves remining monstrous? Did these people actually move into some alternate universe? Did Buffy's sacrifice actually reverse the interdimensional changes or did people just vanish from this world and reappear in some other hell dimension?
 

vampmogs

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The series is pretty much full of plot holes which is pretty inevitable in a genre show. One of the big ones that sticks with me is how Wesley is able to hang around Sunnydale High with apparently nobody wondering who he is or what he's doing there. My fanwank is that the Council pulled some political strings and forced him in there (although you'd think The Mayor would try and fight that) but it's not explained at all. He even attends prom as a chaperone... lol.

As far as individual episodes go, I think First Date is particularly guilty. To name a few;

  • Wood is glancing at Spike in the rearview mirror and doesn't notice that he doesn't have a reflection?
  • Spike tells Buffy that Xander is in the high school because "Willow did a locator spell" but Spike left the house to go find Buffy before Willow did any kind of spell so how would he know this?
  • Xander texts Willow with a secret code to say he's in danger and Willow says it's a code they "set up a long time ago" which I have multiple problems with;
- Since when did Willow and Xander set up this code? They've never been shown using cell phones prior to S7 and definitely not "a long time ago." And since Xander hasn't been single in years this would have to have been, like, Sunnydale High days for him to have established a "my dates a demon and they're trying to kill me" code.​
- Why would Xander even need to send a message in code? Why not just explicitly say he was in danger? Was Lissa reading his messages?​
- How was Xander able to text Willow that he was in danger if he was bound and strung up?​
  • Maybe it doesn't qualify as a "plot hole" so much as lazy writing but how did Lissa go from drinking coffee with Xander at the Espresso Pump to having him shirtless and strung up in the basement of Sunnydale High? Did she knock him out and drag him all the way to the school? Did they go there for some reason? When did Xander realise he was in danger and text Willow etc? None of this is explained.
  • Lissa opens up the seal by draining Xander with her own dagger but in Storyteller and Never Leave Me Andrew had to use a very special and particular dagger to kill Jonathan with and open the seal (The First makes him obtain this in Mexico). Buffy, Faith and the Potentials uses the same dagger in Chosen. So why did Lissa's dagger work and if any dagger would do and what was all the fuss about regarding this one particular dagger?

I recently rewatched I Only Have Eyes For You and there's a plot hole in the timeline of that episode that I've never seen mentioned before. At the beginning of the episode Buffy and Ben talk at The Bronze and they mention that the Sadie Hawkin's dance is "tomorrow night." However, the dance does not take place the next day (we see night and day as Ms Frank is killed by the janitor that night), and the following day Cordelia says in the cafeteria that the dance is taking place that night - 2 days after the scene at The Bronze.


Do we have dragons trapped in the world and people who have transformed into monstrous versions of themselves remining monstrous?
Back in the day it was a commonly held belief in fandom that the dragon in Not Fade Away is the same dragon that came out of the portal in The Gift.
 
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DeadlyDuo
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I always assumed Wesley was hired as an assistant librarian.

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I recently rewatched I Only Have Eyes For You and there's a plot hole in the timeline of that episode that I've never seen mentioned before. At the beginning of the episode Buffy and Ben talk at The Bronze and they mention that the Sadie Hawkin's dance is "tomorrow night." However, the dance does not take place the next day (we see night and day as Ms Frank is killed by the janitor that night), and the following day Cordelia says in the cafeteria that the dance is taking place that night - 2 days after the scene at The Bronze.
They do this a lot in the early seasons, not understanding the meaning of time; in Prophecy Girl, Buffy has her little freak-out about the Master and goes home to have that talk with Joyce and be given her dress - then it's morning and Willow and Cordelia find the bodies in the school rec room - then it's night again and Buffy is trying on the dress when Willow calls.

It happens again in a S2 episode, but I'm blanking on it right now - it's not the one you mentioned, though, I think maybe it was the Career Week two-parter?
 

vampmogs

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They do this a lot in the early seasons, not understanding the meaning of time; in Prophecy Girl, Buffy has her little freak-out about the Master and goes home to have that talk with Joyce and be given her dress - then it's morning and Willow and Cordelia find the bodies in the school rec room - then it's night again and Buffy is trying on the dress when Willow calls.
That doesn't seem like a plot hole to me? Buffy breaks down the night before the prom. The next morning Cordy and Willow meet at the high school to set up the sound system for the prom later that night. Then later during the day Buffy is trying on her prom dress and contemplating whether she'll wear it and attend the dance later that night before Willow calls. That all seems logical and linear as far as I can tell.
 

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That doesn't seem like a plot hole to me? Buffy breaks down the night before the prom. The next morning Cordy and Willow meet at the high school to set up the sound system for the prom later that night. Then later during the day Buffy is trying on her prom dress and contemplating whether she'll wear it and attend the dance later that night before Willow calls. That all seems logical and linear as far as I can tell.
Sorry, I guess I didn't explain it properly - when I watch the episode, it feels like a plot hole, like they brought in an extra day just so they could have that scene between Willow and Buffy. Yeah, I'm not explaining it right, but I suppose it's something to keep in mind next time you watch the episode.
 

TriBel

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Lissa opens up the seal by draining Xander with her own dagger but in Storyteller and Never Leave Me Andrew had to use a very special and particular dagger to kill Jonathan with and open the seal (The First makes him obtain this in Mexico). Buffy, Faith and the Potentials uses the same dagger in Chosen. So why did Lissa's dagger work and if any dagger would do and what was all the fuss about regarding this one particular dagger?
That I think can be explained through the notion of ritual. Lissa has made a pragmatic choice and doesn't need her decision validating. Andrew needs justification for killing his best friend. A ritual kinda sanitizes the process (one of the purposes of ritual is to maintain clear boundaries between two different states. With an ordinary knife, it's murder; with a ritual dagger it's sacrifice). Ritual also functions to bind groups together and exclude the other (hence why it's used by Buffy and Faith). Ritual plays throughout S7 - it's part of the rhetoric of the spectacle. It's designed to be seen. The First says as much when he hoists Spike onto the wheel (Andrew doesn't use a wheel). "You'll have to excuse the spectacle, but I've always been a bit of a sucker for the old classics". The knife isn't special - it has no intrinsic meaning - hence it can be hidden in the cutlery drawer and used to cut bread. It's meaning comes from the context in which it's used.
 

Spanky

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The knife isn't special - it has no intrinsic meaning - hence it can be hidden in the cutlery drawer and used to cut bread. It's meaning comes from the context in which it's used.
Kinda like profanity; it's common and used daily but in the right context it really becomes something special.
 

vampmogs

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Sorry, I guess I didn't explain it properly - when I watch the episode, it feels like a plot hole, like they brought in an extra day just so they could have that scene between Willow and Buffy. Yeah, I'm not explaining it right, but I suppose it's something to keep in mind next time you watch the episode.
I'll definitely keep an eye out but from memory the episode takes place over 3 days;

Day 1: The nighttime scenes in the opening - Xander and Willow at The Bronze, Cordy parking with her date, Giles researching in the library, Buffy slaying the vampire etc.
Day 2: It begins the following morning with Buffy walking into the library and commenting on the fact that Giles didn't sleep last night. Then Xander asks Buffy to the dance and she rejects him, Cordy asks Willow to meet her tomorrow to set up the sound system, Xander asks Willow to the dance and she rejects him, Jenny goes to the library to speak with Giles, later that night Buffy goes to the library and overhears Giles and Angel and has her meltdown, and afterwards Buffy speaks with Joyce at home.
Day 3: It's the day of the prom. Willow and Cordy stumble upon the bodies in the morning, Buffy is trying on her prom dress when Willow calls later in the day (presumably after dealing with police etc), Xander is feeling sorry for himself in his room, Buffy goes to fight the Master, chaos ensues etc.

I don't feel like there's an extra day. It wouldn't make sense for Xander to ask Buffy to the prom the day of the prom (typically you'd ask earlier to give both of you time to prepare) so the day in the middle is necessary. And it would feel too rushed for Buffy to have her meltdown and then change her mind all within the space of the same night. Other than the Day 1 nighttime scenes in the teaser for the episode, the entire episode takes place just over 2 days.


**

A few more;

- @Btvs fan reminded me of this on another forum - Sunnydale suddenly being located in the middle of the desert in Chosen despite the fact that we visit the docks in Surprise and Consequences, there's photos of the gang hanging around "at the pier" in Cordy's locker in Lover's Walk, Angel mentions that he took Buffy to fight a "fire demon nest down by the beach" in Choices, and the Scoobies are hanging out at the beach in Buffy VS Dracula. Sunnydale was clearly a coastal town.

- The Initiative: the most obvious is the fact that Spike is able to fight the scientists despite being chipped which apparently Whedon was really angry about according to Petrie as this was a mistake. But the other minor plot hole is that we clearly see the Initiative soldiers pull out fancy looking stakes to dust the vampire from Sunday's gang as he and Spike escape. However, later in The I In Team Walsh is puzzled by the fact that "they use the latest in state of the art weaponry and Buffy pokes vampires with a sharp stick." But her men were using pointy sharp sticks just a few episodes earlier...

- The Killer in Me: Spike talks about remembering his surgeries, getting drugged up, and having his chip implanted, despite having no memory of this throughout S4. It's also ordered in Primeval that the Initiative compound be "filled with concrete" but in this episode it clearly isn't.

- IRYJ: Buffy's high school file on the computer lists her as a Senior despite her being a sophomore (as stated in Welcome to the Hellmouth and evident by the fact she spends the next 3 years in high school).

- Potential/Chosen: Buffy tells the Potentials that "her death could make one of them the next Slayer" and The First tells Buffy that "none of those girlies will ever know real power unless you're dead" despite the fact that Buffy died for a second time already in The Gift and no new Slayer was called. So why would a Slayer be called if she died a 3rd time?
 
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Btvs fan

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In the Trial Angel tells Darla he's not turned a person since he was souled. Yet in Why We Fight thats clearly not true
 
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