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Plot Holes

SpikeRocks

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Would Angel being tormented in a hell dimension for possible centuries, returning all feral and then suddenly being better/like nothing happened be a plot hole, a massive inconsistency, or a "dropped" plot?
 
Puppet
Puppet
Probably a mixture of all.
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
Probably more like a condensed plot.
K
katmobile
I don't think he was in a hell dimension for a century. I think it was a few years tops. Connor only ages around twenty in Qar'toth and he was there longer in the human world than Ricky who aged at least forty in a our world day in the Anne dimension

thrasherpix

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Biggest ones for me.

How did Buffy not get arrested for blowing up Sunnydale High? How did she not know anyone wasn't still in there? Wouldn't the other classes still be in attendence? Janitors, workers, cleaners? I like Graduation Day, but it was a bit silly in that respect
Yeah, I'm VERY curious about that one myself, especially as how the locals not in on Buffy's plan explain it.

While the SPD may be "deeply stupid" (and, as I'm about to explain, conspiratorial), I'm sure federal agencies would've gotten involved in that one, and they can generally track down homemade explosives by the materials bought or shipped recently, let alone straight up bought (they do have a lot of commercial use, btw, even farmers find explosives useful, so it's not surprising it's available to the public use...they do keep watch, and even our Tim McVeigh who blew up a government building in Oklahoma City was red flagged for buying so much fertilizer, useful in making explosives, and other components, but as a lot of people do that the presumably overworked FBI just didn't get to checking him out in time, though they made such purchases a top priority for awhile after that).

Still, in the Buffyverse, the government knows about the supernatural and tries to keep it quiet. It seems they'd have done more (and would still want to interview those involved, pretending to be another government agency of course or maybe even a reporter, and would Buffy and the Scoobies really escape notice, especially after Buffy was likely redflagged after Marcie?). But it could be it was squashed, especially with the Initiative moving in (if they weren't already set up, though I like to think of what happened in season 3 as the project being sped up so it wasn't active until after the school blew up).

Btw, something that begs an explanation IMO (though probably just lazy writing) is that the Coach points a gun at Buffy in Go Fish. Notice the coach doesn't do that with the nurse, nor even with Xander. But he goes immediately to the gun when facing Buffy which implies he has at least some idea of what she is. Combined with his ability to get a top secret mutagen, that suggests government asset watching the school (and though I assume the swim team was his private obsession and he was shown as a bit of a sadist in season 1, IIRC, but it's not hard to imagine Maggie Walsh giving him the wink over it in exchange for data, despite the security risks of doing it that way rather than on say convicts).

And that's another reason to think the black ops that kept an eye on Sunnydale knew about Buffy, and why they might be inclined to cover it up (though I'd think they'd surround the site with razor wire as a hazardous site at the very least, which they don't), but not why they would seem to be so surprised by Buffy in season 4. (Another plot hole?)




And Faith ties into this in my head canon, because it's another plot hole. As far as the system is concerned, she's a victim, not a criminal. To paraphrase a witch from American Horror Story, one couldn't toast a piece of bread on the evidence they had on Faith. But she's kept under watch as a prime suspect for murder? I don't buy it. The only way to convict her would be to get a confession, and they wouldn't even be looking for one.

Unless the conspiratorial police connected her to the Mayor and thus wanted to get rid of her before she could become a problem herself (or seek revenge).

Another plot hole (or writer's fiat): when Buffy couldn't escape the hospital without help while sick, how did Faith under surveillance and tied to monitors do it so easily?

I'd say it's conflicting magical fields between Wolfram & Hart along with the Watchers Council meant to watch her. But as it would've been so easy to kill her with an OD of drugs by someone disguised as a nurse, neither side would want to kill her or she'd already be dead.

Likewise, the WC and W&H would also be legally fighting over as well in the courts in trying to get her transferred, which explains why the WC had someone watching but hadn't already taken her (maybe they were even keeping her sedated as they're shown to be able to make Slayers somewhat human with drugs, to which her body may have finally built up a resistance so she wakes up before the legal battle can be won). It should've been too easy for the WC to outright steal Faith otherwise while in a coma (and most hospitals would be all too happy to dump a patient if no one is paying so a simple bribe or calling in a marker or even just "freeing up a bed" should be all the WC would need to be able to take her).
 
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AlphaFoxtrot

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Re: Angel; Angel's forgotten century is a plot hole, that he remembers anyone after that much time is a mystery, let alone a girl he dated for a new months in what is basically 1898. But, Vampires are sort of native to hell, and frankly, none of the hells we have seen are really that bad.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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What girl? I thought Angel got his soul in 1898?
It's more like Angel dated a girl in 1898, then a hundred years later in 1998, saw her again, and not only remembered her, but decided to pick up where he left off. A hundred years is long time, even for a vampire.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Also, in this case, a hundred years is just a very long time, not actually one hundred cycles of the Earth passing around the sun.
 

spikenbuffy

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I don't know if it's called plot hole or poor writing but why does Spike stay in Sunnydale after he asked Warren to make a Buffybot ? I would have left Sunnydale with Buffybot if I were him. There was always a risk for Buffy to discover the Buffybot by living in the same town with the real Buffy.
 

Puppet

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Black Thorn
I don't know if it's called plot hole or poor writing but why does Spike stay in Sunnydale after he asked Warren to make a Buffybot ? I would have left Sunnydale with Buffybot if I were him. There was always a risk for Buffy to discover the Buffybot by living in the same town with the real Buffy.
I couldn't imagine him leaving the place with the real Buffy, which is who he's really in love/obsessed with, whether he has a bot now or not. That's just me, though, I can easily explain away why he stays and don't see that as a plot hole :)
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
It's the number 1 reason for me too.

Btvs fan

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An obvious plot hole is the Government/Army not doing anything about Spike in Listening to Fear. In Out of My Mind E4. He assaults and kidnaps there staff and soldiers. Yet by E9 they've clearly forgotten about it. What's even more crazy is he isn't bothered either even qupping to Riley, "you missed a real good time" :confused: I guess he read the script 🤷‍♂️
 

TriBel

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I don't know if it's called plot hole or poor writing but why does Spike stay in Sunnydale after he asked Warren to make a Buffybot ? I would have left Sunnydale with Buffybot if I were him. There was always a risk for Buffy to discover the Buffybot by living in the same town with the real Buffy.
Because psychologically, it's home (Buffy is "home"). He's unconsciously drawn to it. Perhaps the most fortuitous words in the whole of BtVS from Spike's perspective are "Home, Sweet Home". There's a reason the actress who plays Anne was chosen because she looked like Buffy might look at her age. There's a reason the Sunnydale sign follows him into the abyss. It's now his "permanent home". He returns to SD at least twice (three times?) in the comics and, IIRC, talks about it as home the first (or second) time. He meets Dru in the IDW comics and, just for a moment, believes he's home (then realises he isn't). It's not bad writing - it's consistent writing. :)

@Priceless - don't just "like" - fill in the gaps with the comics. 🤔 It's to do with finding the seed isn't it?
 
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Btvs fan

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Because psychologically, it's home (Buffy is "home"). He's unconsciously drawn to it. Perhaps the most fortuitous words in the whole of BtVS from Spike's perspective are "Home, Sweet Home". There's a reason the actress who plays Anne was chosen because she looked like Buffy might look at her age. There's a reason the Sunnydale sign follows him into the abyss. It's now his "permanent home". He returns to SD at least twice (three times?) in the comics and, IIRC, talks about it as home the first (or second) time. He meets Dru in the IDW comics and, just for a moment, believes he's home (then realises he isn't). It's not bad writing - it's consistent writing. :)
If that was true how does that explain Angel Season 5 since Spike stays in LA even when Angel offers to pay for him to go anywhere "it's what I want"
Your reading is false
 
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DeadlyDuo

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I think Spike stays in Sunnydale because he literally has nowhere else to go. His name is mud amongst the demon community and at least being an "ally" of the slayer affords him some protection even if it makes him increasingly unpopular.
 

SpikeRocks

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What about In the Dark, where Spike "knows" Cordelia and talked very informally with her and yet never met her (on-screen anyway) in BTVS. This is also where he met Doyle (though maybe never got his name?) and it doesn't click with him in ATS S5 that a different person is strangely going by that (fairly uncommon) name.
 

Puppet

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What about In the Dark, where Spike "knows" Cordelia and talked very informally with her and yet never met her (on-screen anyway) in BTVS. This is also where he met Doyle (though maybe never got his name?) and it doesn't click with him in ATS S5 that a different person is strangely going by that (fairly uncommon) name.
The Cordelia one is definitely suspect, but the Doyle one is not a plot hole; Spike is never introduced to him by name, calling him 'the mick' and I doubt he made any lasting impression on Spike that would make him memorable years later.

Oh and for the Cordelia one, I head-canon that Spike dealt with Buffy and the Scoobies more times than just the ones we saw on the show. He tells Willow that when he saw her in that lilac number during S3 he wanted to bite her, except she wasn't wearing that during Lovers Walk.
 
S
SpikeRocks
True true......tho I think he is referring to willow's "fuzzy pink number with the lilac underneath" from Lover's Walk...

The Bronze

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So I'm rewatching at the moment and picked up on something I hadn't spotted before. The opening scene of The Puppet Show has a creepy voice back stage. It says I will be whole, I will be new. We pan round from the POV of this mystery voice and see both Sid the dummy and Mark the magican. So who the hell is the creepy voice?
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Well, remember, Spike had minions follow Buffy around, he was collecting intelligence on her, and would have known who her friends were, and would have been tracking Cordelia. At the least, you would want to know where she lives, what car she drives and her schedule. (This is why the Slayer ought to keep her ID secret) And remember, Spike likes pretty psychotic brunettes. Heck, they probably danced together a few times at the Bronze, as part of surveillance.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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The problem with Jasmine is that her involvement erases all plot holes. Everything can become her handiwork, and it goes so deep, I'm not even certain how real the show is. I prefer the minimalist position, where she was still one actor among many, and she altered and tweaked as opposed to created, but if you want to go in the opposite direction, and argue that everything from Lord Archeus turning Heinrich Joseph Nest onward has her fingerprints on it, I couldn't dispute it.
 

Btvs fan

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Jasmine was obviously the writers trying to cover themselves over CC pregnancy and in fairness they've never pretended otherwise .
 

katmobile

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The problem with Jasmine is that her involvement erases all plot holes. Everything can become her handiwork, and it goes so deep, I'm not even certain how real the show is. I prefer the minimalist position, where she was still one actor among many, and she altered and tweaked as opposed to created, but if you want to go in the opposite direction, and argue that everything from Lord Archeus turning Heinrich Joseph Nest onward has her fingerprints on it, I couldn't dispute it.
I reject the idea Jasmine engineered everything.
 
A
AlphaFoxtrot
I think it works better if she simply hijacks an existing project by the Powers that be to recruit the Vampire with a Soul as their Champion, and talks it up like she's behind everything, as opposed to having the Loom of Fate.
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