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Potential ranking? Or ranking of potentials?

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
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She literally pushed a girl to kill her self.
She didn't. She was trying to motivate the rabble so they might have half a chance of surviving. Whether she should have been in that role is debatable. Also her methods weren't great. Quite clearly though it was the threat of the First Evil which brought on the suicide. Take away Kennedy and it would still have happened. Take away The First and it wouldn't.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Sineya
As it was, I blamed the First when I watched it.
She didn't. She was trying to motivate the rabble so they might have half a chance of surviving. Whether she should have been in that role is debatable. Also her methods weren't great.
I think this is fair. Kennedy isn't to blame but she inadvertently contributed to feelings Chloe already had that the First capitalized upon. Who know how it appeared to Chloe, it could've been anyone from her past using her fears to terrify an already scared and overwhelmed teen into taking her own life.
Kennedy-haters are gonna blame Kenndy but most should blame the First.
The only person who blames Chloe is Buffy, which is one of the many reasons to dislike S7 Buffy in general and in this episode particularly.
 

The Bronze

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The only person who blames Chloe is Buffy, which is one of the many reasons to dislike S7 Buffy in general and in this episode particularly.
I don't think Buffy genuinely blamed Chloe. She was shell shocked and didn't want to lose anyone else. Again not a great speech but my read was always that it was about trying to get the best out of the rabble rather than a heartfelt attack against Chloe.
 

Cohen

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Take away Kennedy and it would still have happened. Take away The First and it wouldn't.
I disagree. Kennedy was overconfident, arrogant, and naive. She was PROUD that she “called that girl a maggot”. The First capitalized on how Chloe was feeling due to how she was being treated at that time—by Kennedy. Sure she was unconfident in “Showtime” but it was Kennedy’s poor treatment of her that allowed the first to convince her to kill herself.
 

genghiskhan

God doesn't want you
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I don't think Buffy genuinely blamed Chloe. She was shell shocked and didn't want to lose anyone else. Again not a great speech but my read was always that it was about trying to get the best out of the rabble rather than a heartfelt attack against Chloe.
Yeah I agree, they had to be treated like soldiers because Buffy shouldn't have to coddle them when they are going to war. In a normal scenario a nice heartfelt speech would be great, but it wasn't a situation where that was appropriate.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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That said, I just don't think of her as driving Chloe to suicide. When I watch it, I think Kennedy was a bitch who should not have been the one left in charge as she was almost Snyder-like in her obnoxiousness and sadism that neither Willow nor Buffy would've tolerated at their age, and it was their mistake to allow Kennedy the authority.
Snyder at least had the authority to lord it over students as principal. Kennedy was still a potential yet seemed to think she was much better than the rest of them eg skiving off going to the desert and lording it over the potentials during the training session. What annoys me most about the desert thing is that even Buffy has gone to the desert with Giles to learn, yet Kennedy somehow things she's above all that. Kennedy talks the talk about wanting to be a slayer, yet her actions say otherwise.

Though I expect Willow promoted Kennedy because she's got a foolish weak spot for her crushes just as Buffy does. (And just how was Kennedy taught anyway? Giles would be a much better teacher, it's what he used to live for.)
I agree Giles should've been the teacher. It wouldn't surprise me if Kennedy had badgered Willow into letting her do it. Kennedy is quite domineering and Willow isn't the type that likes to upset the applecart so it was probably easier just to give in.

(And as I kid, I know I'd have laughed in "Drill Sergeant" Kennedy's face and returned insult with gleeful insults of my own,
Good for you to have that level of confidence, it's a shame Chloe didn't. We don't actually know whether this was Chloe's first altercation with Kennedy or if there had been a lot of other "minor" interactions that happened off screen. Chloe is several years younger than Kennedy and is being forced to live with her. If Kennedy is regularly being a bitch and Chloe is feeling intimidated then she literally has no respite. Kennedy publicly humiliating her would've been the final straw.

As it was, I blamed the First when I watched it. Just because the First said it was Kennedy doesn't mean it was actually Kennedy (it's evil, it will lie to demoralize).
I disagree to an extent, I actually think the first was telling the truth about Kennedy contributing to Chloe's suicide. Why would it lie when the truth would be so much more damaging? Kennedy isn't solely responsible but she played her part. The annoying thing about it is that Kennedy doesn't reflect on her behaviour or even question whether or not it was her fault. Even if Willow had reassured her that she wasn't to blame, the fact that Kennedy would feel guilt over the way she treated Chloe could've actually shown a softer side to her character, perhaps even shown that her arrogance is a cover to hide how scared she truly is. Instead, Kennedy does not give a damn and just continues as if nothing happened.

And if the First was being completely honest then it begs the question why Chloe didn't go to Buffy or Giles (though certainly not Kennedy) to say she was being haunted by the First (since she's quite open about being scared), unless it actually masqueraded as a ghost that she did not realize was the First (like how it first appeared to Willow), which in my headcanon is what happened.
The First was masquerading as Eve for a good while before it was found out so that's a possibility. However, it's also possible that Chloe had reached a point where she felt like she couldn't ask for help. Buffy and co were busy and what could they really do against the first anyway? They can't stop it coming in the house. Kennedy was sucking up to the scoobies, and since she started dating Willow was attending scooby meetings so therefore could be viewed as part of the "inner circle".

Asking for help isn't easy, and for some people circumstances make it feel nigh impossible.

While I'm at it, I can say if I had to deal with the First, I'd seriously be looking into ways to ward against it even before it showed up in the house. Just imagine the harm it could to all of them simply by not letting them sleep through either nightmares or just demonic shrieks all through the night or even whispering to everyone using the voice of others there to really creep them out (let alone sending police their way with false kidnapping and dope house reports, or true reports of harboring 2 fugitives, etc, but thankfully the First was even dumber than season 7 Buffy).
Lack of sleep could be terribly damaging (which is why its odd some of them chose not to sleep on the final night before battle). Tiredness can have a negative impact on decision making. The First had to take a level in dumbass just so that it wouldn't annihilate them all. Just imagine if it hadn't helpfully had the scythe dug up for Buffy to take.

I think this is fair. Kennedy isn't to blame but she inadvertently contributed to feelings Chloe already had that the First capitalized upon. Who know how it appeared to Chloe, it could've been anyone from her past using her fears to terrify an already scared and overwhelmed teen into taking her own life.
Kennedy-haters are gonna blame Kenndy but most should blame the First.
Again it's Kennedy's complete lack of reflection on her behaviour. Any normal person would at least question whether they were to blame (especially if something said you were, whether it was lying or not is irrelevant, you would at least question whether you were at fault), Kennedy is completely unfazed. Chloe was younger and more vulnerable. We don't know whether she had a Watcher like Kennedy had or if she'd just been thrust into the situation out of the blue. 16 year old Buffy didn't want to die, Chloe was younger than that.

Kennedy is not solely to blame but neither is she blameless, she helped contribute to Chloe's suicide.

I disagree. Kennedy was overconfident, arrogant, and naive. She was PROUD that she “called that girl a maggot”. The First capitalized on how Chloe was feeling due to how she was being treated at that time—by Kennedy. Sure she was unconfident in “Showtime” but it was Kennedy’s poor treatment of her that allowed the first to convince her to kill herself.
I completely agree. Chloe is a minor, Kennedy is legally classed as an adult. Chloe's "crime" was that she confused her left and right. It's an easy mistake to make for anyone, especially a young teenager who is living under the threat of being killed by an evil entity that is specifically hunting potentials down. At worst, the training exercise should've just been restarted. There was no need for Kennedy to publicly humiliate Chloe in front of everyone then GLOAT about it. Not only is it extremely damaging to Chloe's confidence, self-esteem and self-worth, but the fact Kennedy doesn't get called out on it by Willow or any of the other adults also sends the message that it's okay for Kennedy to behave and treat Chloe like that when it really shouldn't be.

Why isn't Kennedy participating in the training exercise herself? She's still a potential, she's not better than them. Kennedy obviously thinks they're beneath her, that's why she skives off going to the desert, it's why she treats Chloe the way she does, and it's why she brownnoses Faith and then leads the mutiny with the intention that Faith will take over and give her a bigger say in things. Kennedy openly admits she expected a bigger say with Faith in charge.

Yeah I agree, they had to be treated like soldiers because Buffy shouldn't have to coddle them when they are going to war. In a normal scenario a nice heartfelt speech would be great, but it wasn't a situation where that was appropriate.
This is why Kennedy should've been called out on her behaviour. She clearly had no respect for Buffy, the way she looked down her nose at her the moment she arrived was evident of that.[/QUOTE]
 

nightshade

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1. Kennedy - I remember her
2. Amanda - another I can recall
3. The one played by Felicia - don't recall the character but remember Felicia
4. The one that broke her arm, Rona?
5. Umm yeah I'm at a loss for any others
 
Puppet
Puppet
Vi. Felicia Day played Vi :D

Puppet

You rocks think you're so smart.
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  1. Violet 'Vi' (yes, because of Felicia Day, so sue me)
  2. Amanda
  3. Chao-Ahn
  4. Rona
  5. Chloe
  6. Shannon
  7. Molly
  8. Annabelle
  9. All the unnamed ones
  10. Kennedy
 
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