• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Spoiler! Preview for BTVS S10 issue #28

vampmogs

Potential
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
412
Age
32
She pushed her friends away in S6 because they cared to much. Like what? Since when are caring friends a bad thing? Oh right it's the Spike show that's why.

It had nothing to do with it being 'the Spike show" and you're really simplifying what was a pretty complex story arc for Buffy. The writers did a fantastic job of writing a character who was suffering from depression. It was pretty clearly explained in the show why Buffy found her friend's concern hard to deal with. She articulates it herself;

BUFFY
I guess. Everyone ... (long pause) they all care. They all care so much, it ... makes it all harder.
SPIKE
I'm not sure I followed you around that bend, luv. (steps onto second stair)
BUFFY
I don't know. I just, I feel like I'm spending all of my time trying to be okay, so they don't worry. It's exhausting. And then, I...

She trails off, makes a frustrated gesture and then clenches her hand into a fist.

SPIKE
And that makes 'em worry even more.

Which is a pretty normal feeling depressed people will feel so I'm not sure why your issue is? It's emotionally draining to put on a fake smile for the benefit of those around you and in Buffy's case, it ended up being a vicious cycle because the more she tried to appear ok it made her friends worry even more. She was in a lose-lose situation. Not to mention that she found it difficult to deal with the resentment she had towards her friends for pulling her out of Heaven which was something she certainly didn't want to admit to them much less herself. She was able to confide in Spike because, initially at least, she didn't care about his opinion of her - "A whisper in a dead man's ear doesn't make it real" - and wasn't under any pressure to appear normal for him. She had already confided in him that she was happy and at peace and therefore she could be herself and she didn't feel obligated to pretend to be ok for his benefit (as she had with her friends ever since Dawn spoke to her in Afterlife - "They just want to see you happy. That's all they want") which is why she was drawn to him.

But what excuse is there for S7?

Again, it was explained. Buffy distanced herself from the Potentials because she knew was going to lose some of them and found it easier to put a wall up then deal with the guilt of sending them to their deaths. And becoming the General made Buffy feel isolated from those around her which is exactly how Faith felt when she took charge and Faith articulated exactly that in End of Days;

FAITH
And here I am. Everybody is looking at me to lead them and... I've never felt more alone in my entire life. And that's you every day, isn't it?

As the Slayer, Buffy has always felt somewhat alone and isolated from every body around her and S7 amplified that even more when the war overtook her life.

And it caused the same problems as in S6, she ignored her support system.

They're not comparable at all and you're also ignoring that Buffy's "support system" in S6 were dealing with their own guilt and confusion over her resurrection, not to mention the problems in their own personal lives, which caused them to be quite self-involved and unhelpful at times. NOBODY was a great friend to each other in S6 so you're being really unfair to Buffy. Willow's solution to help Buffy was to rape her mind and remove her memories without her consent. The others had a brief discussion at the beginning of Tabula Rasa about how they could help her but when they found the situation too hard to handle they pretty much buried their heads in the sand and gave up. Which was great for them but not so great for the suicidally depressed person who they had all witnessed try and kill herself in OMWF and then have a complete breakdown in front of them at the Magic Box, and yet they never raise the topic with Buffy again. I mean, Buffy point-blank accuses Xander of "not wanting to know" about how hard she was finding things in Seeing Red and he couldn't bring himself to deny it. When you consider all of that PLUS Willow's addiction issues, her break up with Tara, the crumbling of Xander and Anya's relationship, and Giles leaving town, you are greatly overestimating what kind of "support system" Buffy had in S6. The gang were a hot mess that year -- which was the point.

The comics have turned to shit but Buffy's arc from S5-S7 was compelling and well-written IMO. Her arc in S6 is a particular favourite of mine and the writers did an amazing job of writing for a character dealing with depression. I've not only suffered from depression myself but I also used to work on a hotline counselling people with depression and BtVS's portrayal of the issue is probably the finest I have ever seen on TV. I think you're really underestimating the writing and I can't say I agree with anything you've said pretty much at all.
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
bravo!
B
black cat
[No message]

RomanticSoul

Frell Me
Joined
Jan 25, 2014
Messages
2,337
Location
Germany
It had nothing to do with it being 'the Spike show" and you're really simplifying what was a pretty complex story arc for Buffy. The writers did a fantastic job of writing a character who was suffering from depression.
At the beginning of the Season that's what I thought. As the Season progressed and into S7 it clearly had nothing to do with Buffy and was all about Spike. It's one thing to have your main character suffer depression and make some wrong choices as a result. That's relatable. But you don't write the evil, soulles, mass murderer who also happens to use techniques from Abusive Relationships 101 more sympathetic than the main character. Because that's what happened and the writers were fully aware of this. Otherwise there would have been no attempted rape. But hey at least Marti found it funny how many fans were getting their Buffy hate on.

It was pretty clearly explained in the show why Buffy found her friend's concern hard to deal with. She articulates it herself;

BUFFY
I don't know. I just, I feel like I'm spending all of my time trying to be okay, so they don't worry. It's exhausting. And then, I...

She trails off, makes a frustrated gesture and then clenches her hand into a fist.

SPIKE
And that makes 'em worry even more.

Which is a pretty normal feeling depressed people will feel so I'm not sure why your issue is? It's emotionally draining to put on a fake smile for the benefit of those around you and in Buffy's case, it ended up being a vicious cycle because the more she tried to appear ok it made her friends worry even more. She was in a lose-lose situation. Not to mention that she found it difficult to deal with the resentment she had towards her friends for pulling her out of Heaven which was something she certainly didn't want to admit to them much less herself. She was able to confide in Spike because, initially at least, she didn't care about his opinion of her - "A whisper in a dead man's ear doesn't make it real" - and wasn't under any pressure to appear normal for him. She had already confided in him that she was happy and at peace and therefore she could be herself and she didn't feel obligated to pretend to be ok for his benefit (as she had with her friends ever since Dawn spoke to her in Afterlife - "They just want to see you happy. That's all they want") which is why she was drawn to him.
That's exactly the problem though. Why pretend to be something you aren't? Let them see how crappy you feel. Don't pretend to feel fine for their benefit. Show them what their shortsightedness has done to you. This way it's right in their face and it would give all parties an equal playing field how to deal with the aftermath. This way Willow isn't looking for thanks instead she is confronted right to her face that what she did was bad and wrong. This way Xander can't stick his head in the sand about the issue if it's there every day. This way Dawn might not be so 'me me me' and constantly looking for attention from her supposedly happy go lucky sister. This way Giles doesn't think that the only thing Buffy is having issues with is providing for herself in an adult way. It's just dishonest to pretend to be something you aren't to the people closest to you because it allows no one to deal with the actual reality of the situation.


Again, it was explained. Buffy distanced herself from the Potentials because she knew was going to lose some of them and found it easier to put a wall up then deal with the guilt of sending them to their deaths. And becoming the General made Buffy feel isolated from those around her which is exactly how Faith felt when she took charge and Faith articulated exactly that in End of Days;

FAITH
And here I am. Everybody is looking at me to lead them and... I've never felt more alone in my entire life. And that's you every day, isn't it?

As the Slayer, Buffy has always felt somewhat alone and isolated from every body around her and S7 amplified that even more when the war overtook her life.
No thanks to this story development. While Buffy sure felt isolation sometimes she has always had support. And back in the day Buffy knew that when something didn't play to her strenght or she couldn't do it alone she was able to delegate. Don't have to look further than S1-4 for that. Whether it's Innocence where Xander comes up with the bazooka part of the plan, Gradution Day, Choices, Primevil or even The Gift, just to name a few off the top of my head. While everyone was looking at Buffy to lead in S7 (instead of oh I don't know Giles) and Giles was no help piling on the pressure while doing nothing really himself, nothing was stopping Buffy from delegating like she used to back in the day. It sure would have helped considering S7 Buffy had the strategic planning ability of a 5 year old which didn't extend beyond 'slayer strong, slayer smash'.

I also call BS on that Faith line. We had just seen Faith take charge of the 'capture Angelus' mission over on AtS and she did more than fine. Largely because she was delegating, send Connor home when his revenge mode would likely get them all killed (and Angelus) and listened to other people (namely Wesley). Faith was set up to fail on BtVS for the simple reason that it would make Buffy look less bad. I have neve seen a character who was bailed out through writers fiat as much as Buffy was in S7.

They're not comparable at all and you're also ignoring that Buffy's "support system" in S6 were dealing with their own guilt and confusion over her resurrection, not to mention the problems in their own personal lives, which caused them to be quite self-involved and unhelpful at times. NOBODY was a great friend to each other in S6 so you're being really unfair to Buffy. Willow's solution to help Buffy was to rape her mind and remove her memories without her consent. The others had a brief discussion at the beginning of Tabula Rasa about how they could help her but when they found the situation too hard to handle they pretty much buried their heads in the sand and gave up. Which was great for them but not so great for the suicidally depressed person who they had all witnessed try and kill herself in OMWF and then have a complete breakdown in front of them at the Magic Box, and yet they never raise the topic with Buffy again. I mean, Buffy point-blank accuses Xander of "not wanting to know" about how hard she was finding things in Seeing Red and he couldn't bring himself to deny it. When you consider all of that PLUS Willow's addiction issues, her break up with Tara, the crumbling of Xander and Anya's relationship, and Giles leaving town, you are greatly overestimating what kind of "support system" Buffy had in S6. The gang were a hot mess that year -- which was the point.
I'm not ignoring the Scoobies dealing with their own stuff. Though except for Willow none of the others have any excuse. Xander only had his Anya thing and that shouldn't occupy that much story, Dawn had no one and she is just a child and Giles just leaves for no good reason. Buffy pretends to be fine while she really isn't. None of this made any sense, especially when you consider that this comes after S5, the supposed Family themed Season. The Scoobies were written as occupied, heads in sand or just plain out of character to pull off the 'Buffy is isolated from everyone because they deal with their own problems' so she has to turn to Spike. It's pretty much the only way to be able to pull off this story.

I think you're really underestimating the writing and I can't say I agree with anything you've said pretty much at all.
That's why this is a discussion board. For people discussing their different opinions. No one is asking you to agree with me.
 
Last edited:

vampmogs

Potential
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
412
Age
32
At the beginning of the Season that's what I thought. As the Season progressed and into S7 it clearly had nothing to do with Buffy and was all about Spike.

I'm sorry but I can never take statements like this seriously. It was Always About Buffy. With all due respect, it's kind of ludicrous to suggest that at the beginning of the season the writers all sat down to penn S6 and said 'Hmm, so lets make the show about Spike now' and I think whatever hatred you feel for the character is blinding you to reason and common sense. The reason Spike got a more prominent role is because he became Buffy's love interest. That's what happens when your story becomes more entwined with the titualer character. It happened to Angel and it happened to Riley too. Heck, it happened to Dawn's character in S5 when the writers actually said that she was Buffy's "love interest" that season and Dawn got a VERY prominent role and a lot of screen time devoted to her arc and journey. The closer your role to Buffy the bigger your role in the story is -- and that's because it's her show. Always was.

It's one thing to have your main character suffer depression and make some wrong choices as a result. That's relatable. But you don't write the evil, soulles, mass murderer who also happens to use techniques from Abusive Relationships 101 more sympathetic than the main character. Because that's what happened and the writers were fully aware of this. Otherwise there would have been no attempted rape. But hey at least Marti found it funny how many fans were getting their Buffy hate on.

Firstly, Buffy and Spike entered a mutually abusive relationship. Spike most certainly was guilty of that but so was Buffy. Secondly, who was more sympathetic is a completely subjective thing and up to the interpretation of the viewer. At no point did I ever feel Spike was more sympathetic than Buffy and whilst I certainly think she was flawed in S6 my heart was always predominently with her. If your entire argument was that it became 'the Spike show' because viewers found Spike more sympathetic it's already an argument that's bound to fail because you can't possibly know how every fan reacted to the storyline or where their sympathies lied. Not to mention that your main character doesn't have to be the most sympathetic in it order for it to still be their show. Walter White was a horrible bastard by the end of Breaking Bad but it was no doubt still his show. And last of all, isn't your argument kind of contradicting itself if you claim that the writer's wrote the attempted rape with the intention of creating a Spike backlash? If they wanted it to become the 'Spike Show' then why would they write a plot point with the sole intention of making the audience turn against him and go back to rooting for Buffy because they were worried fans were sympathising with him too much? That would be counterproductive, no? According to you they created this entire story arc for the purpose of making it the 'Spike Show' so having the audience root for him more is exactly what they'd want under your theory?

That's exactly the problem though. Why pretend to be something you aren't? Let them see how crappy you feel. Don't pretend to feel fine for their benefit. Show them what their shortsightedness has done to you. This way it's right in their face and it would give all parties an equal playing field how to deal with the aftermath.

Because for right or wrong Buffy felt obligated to put on a happy face for their benefit and didn't know how to vocalise what she was feeling inside or cope with her own depression. In an ideal world people would easily express their emotions and deal with them in the healthiest way they can but Buffy isn't a perfect character and neither is anybody a perfect human being. How Buffy dealt with her depression is how a lot of people deal with their depression - by trying to cope with it on their own because they don't want people to worry, or don't know how to articulate how they're feeling, or because they don't feel like people will understand. For somebody like Buffy, who everybody looks to for guidance and help, it can be very hard to not feel obligated to have a stiff upper lip and try and live up those expectations and not let people see how horrible you're coping. Not to mention that on the rare occasion when she DID breakdown and tell them all exactly how she was feeling ("It's too much - it's too much. If you guys understood how hard it's been. How it felt - how it still feels! It feels like I'm dying") the gang swept under the rug because they didn't know how to help her or deal with their own mind-boggling guilt.

How the gang dealt with Buffy's depression is painfully realistic. People often don't know how to deal with someone who is clinically depressed so they shut down and try and ignore it. Especially for a group of 21 year olds. And in the gang's case, they felt responsible for Buffy's pain because it was a result of their own actions and trying to come to terms with that guilt was really hard for them because they were still glad that Buffy was alive and didn't know how to deal with Buffy's unhappiness about that. As Xander himself said -- "I just feel weird feeling bad that my friend's not dead. It's ... too mind-boggling"

The writing in S6 was brilliant. Don't mistake characters making what can appear to be illogical or silly decisions and assume it is a case of bad writing. In real life people don't always handle things in the most healthy way they can and having that reflected in your characters just makes them more three-dimensional and well-written. Buffy behaved exactly as many do when dealing with depression. The gang behaved exactly as many people do when trying to cope with a loved one dealing with depression. All of the character beats made complete sense based on where they were at this stage in their lives and what it was they were going through.

No thanks to this story development. While Buffy sure felt isolation sometimes she has always had support. And back in the day Buffy knew that when something didn't play to her strenght or she couldn't do it alone she was able to delegate. Don't have to look further than S1-4 for that. Whether it's Innocence where Xander comes up with the bazooka part of the plan, Gradution Day, Choices, Primevil or even The Gift, just to name a few off the top of my head. While everyone was looking at Buffy to lead in S7 (instead of oh I don't know Giles) and Giles was no help piling on the pressure while doing nothing really himself, nothing was stopping Buffy from delegating like she used to back in the day.

Buffy's entire tough love speech in Get It Done was trying to motivate the others to push themselves and step up to the plate. That Was The Entire purpose of the episode. Willow was a 'Wicca-who-wont-a", Spike was wallowing in his guilt and had lost his passion for the fight, Xander and Anya were scared, and the Potentials were being.... the Potentials. Buffy lashed out at the gang and called on them to "surprise themselves" and "force [themselves] to do what can't be done" as an attempt to make them all step up to the plate. Throwing herself into that portal was another act to force the gang to believe in themselves and prove that they still had what it takes. As the season progressed Buffy's leadership did become flawed as her coping mechanism was to shut people out but it was all fairly understandable given the odds stacked against them, the First Slayer telling her "it wasn't enough", Giles telling her "all eyes were on her" and it was up to her to lead now, and Buffy having the vision of the humongous Turok-Han army living in her head. Again, characters making mistakes is not a sign of bad writing unless the mistakes they're making are OOC or have no natural progression. I could easily plot out S7 step-by-step and demonstrate how Buffy's arc trajectory makes sense and is logical based on the circumstances at the time.

I also call BS on that Faith line. We had just seen Faith take charge of the 'capture Angelus' mission over on AtS and she did more than fine.

It isn't comparable at all. Faith led the AtS Team for what, an hour at most? She literally led them from the foyer of the Hyperion to the streets of LA and then sent Connor and Gunn back to the Hyperion. The remainder of her time in AtS was either Faith hunting for Angelus with just Wesley or lying in a coma. Gunn and Fred spent the rest of the time resenting her and Wesley ("Super-girl wouldn't have fallen for this piece of plastic junk"/"Like they would have been any help") and sitting back at the Hotel. You're greatly overestimating her leadership position on AtS and even then, that is no in no way comparable to trying to lead an army of over 30 people who are freaked out and yelling at you (some of whom are vying for some kind of leadership of their own like Kennedy) and having the responsibility of 30 young lives in your hands and leading everybody into an apocalyptic war where the fate of not only their lives but the entire worlds rests on your shoulders. There is no comparison.

Faith was set up to fail on BtVS for the simple reason that it would make Buffy look less bad

AMANDA
We shouldn't have followed her -- it didn't work out

BUFFY
Guys! It's not her fault! It could have just as easily happened to me

...


FAITH
It never mattered to me. Somebody has to lead. Let's vote for Chao-Ahn. It's harder to lead people into a deathtrap if you don't speak English.

BUFFY
It wasn't your fault.

FAITH
(looks away) I'm really not looking for forgiveness.

BUFFY
You're not?

FAITH
What do you want me to say? I blew it.

BUFFY
You didn't blow it.

FAITH
Tell that to—

BUFFY
People die. You lead them into battle, they're gonna die. It doesn't matter how ready you are or how smart you are. War is about death. Needless, stupid death.



The show was very kind to Faith. She messed up, so what? So did Buffy in Dirty Girls when she led the gang into Caleb's trap. The writers had no problem having Buffy make mistakes in S7 and it resulted in the gang turning on her.

I'm not ignoring the Scoobies dealing with their own stuff. Though except for Willow none of the others have any excuse. Xander only had his Anya thing and that shouldn't occupy that much story, Dawn had no one and she is just a child and Giles just leaves for no good reason. Buffy pretends to be fine while she really isn't. None of this made any sense, especially when you consider that this comes after S5, the supposed Family themed Season. The Scoobies were written as occupied, heads in sand or just plain out of character to pull off the 'Buffy is isolated from everyone because they deal with their own problems' so she has to turn to Spike. It's pretty much the only way to be able to pull off this story.

Nah, it all made sense. As I said above, people don't always know how to cope with someone suffering from depression so they try and carry on with their lives the best they can and ignore it. The way the gang dealt with their own guilt over their resurrection, their conflicting feelings about Buffy being alive again, their discomfort at her pain, and their own personal demons and dramas, was painfully realistic and well-written. As was how Buffy coped by trying to put on a brave face. It's reminiscent of so many cases I dealt with in my line of work (resurrections aside) and my own experience with depression. For right or wrong I didn't tell my family what was wrong out of shame and not wanting people to be concerned for me and finding it exhausting having to worry about their feelings as well as my own. S6 resonated with me so much and I'll always appreciate it and the writers for telling that story.


That's why this is a discussion board. For people discussing their different opinions. No one is asking you to agree with me.

I'm well aware of that, thanks.
 
GoSpuffy
GoSpuffy
[No message]
Priceless
Priceless
Well said :-)
Kaleidoscope
Kaleidoscope
[No message]
B
black cat
[No message]
The Bronze
The Bronze
These are a great couple of posts!

Buffy Summers

Yataro
Staff member
Joined
Nov 20, 2001
Messages
33,693
Location
The City of Angels
Sineya
Let's please make sure to be accepting of other viewpoints and refrain from making comments about other members.


I hate this poor me stuff we're seeing from Spike. And I agree with amberjane, they FINALLY had Spike and Buffy addressed the attempted rape and Spike getting his soul, and then 2 minutes later they're breaking up.

Just needs to be QFT again.

What is QFT? Let's try not to abbreviate ;)
 
That's exactly the problem though. Why pretend to be something you aren't? Let them see how crappy you feel. Don't pretend to feel fine for their benefit. Show them what their shortsightedness has done to you. This way it's right in their face and it would give all parties an equal playing field how to deal with the aftermath.

That was the one thing that to me seemed done properly: people try to pretend things are fine and keep up a brave face even when things are not fine. Should Buffy have told all the Scoobies off? Yes. But it is strange or out of character that she didn't? No. Buffy has always put herself last.
 
B

black cat

Guest
I'm sorry but I can never take statements like this seriously. It was Always About Buffy. With all due respect, it's kind of ludicrous to suggest that at the beginning of the season the writers all sat down to penn S6 and said 'Hmm, so lets make the show about Spike now' and I think whatever hatred you feel for the character is blinding you to reason and common sense. The reason Spike got a more prominent role is because he became Buffy's love interest. That's what happens when your story becomes more entwined with the titualer character. It happened to Angel and it happened to Riley too. Heck, it happened to Dawn's character in S5 when the writers actually said that she was Buffy's "love interest" that season and Dawn got a VERY prominent role and a lot of screen time devoted to her arc and journey. The closer your role to Buffy the bigger your role in the story is -- and that's because it's her show. Always was.



Firstly, Buffy and Spike entered a mutually abusive relationship. Spike most certainly was guilty of that but so was Buffy. Secondly, who was more sympathetic is a completely subjective thing and up to the interpretation of the viewer. At no point did I ever feel Spike was more sympathetic than Buffy and whilst I certainly think she was flawed in S6 my heart was always predominently with her. If your entire argument was that it became 'the Spike show' because viewers found Spike more sympathetic it's already an argument that's bound to fail because you can't possibly know how every fan reacted to the storyline or where their sympathies lied. Not to mention that your main character doesn't have to be the most sympathetic in it order for it to still be their show. Walter White was a horrible bastard by the end of Breaking Bad but it was no doubt still his show. And last of all, isn't your argument kind of contradicting itself if you claim that the writer's wrote the attempted rape with the intention of creating a Spike backlash? If they wanted it to become the 'Spike Show' then why would they write a plot point with the sole intention of making the audience turn against him and go back to rooting for Buffy because they were worried fans were sympathising with him too much? That would be counterproductive, no? According to you they created this entire story arc for the purpose of making it the 'Spike Show' so having the audience root for him more is exactly what they'd want under your theory?



Because for right or wrong Buffy felt obligated to put on a happy face for their benefit and didn't know how to vocalise what she was feeling inside or cope with her own depression. In an ideal world people would easily express their emotions and deal with them in the healthiest way they can but Buffy isn't a perfect character and neither is anybody a perfect human being. How Buffy dealt with her depression is how a lot of people deal with their depression - by trying to cope with it on their own because they don't want people to worry, or don't know how to articulate how they're feeling, or because they don't feel like people will understand. For somebody like Buffy, who everybody looks to for guidance and help, it can be very hard to not feel obligated to have a stiff upper lip and try and live up those expectations and not let people see how horrible you're coping. Not to mention that on the rare occasion when she DID breakdown and tell them all exactly how she was feeling ("It's too much - it's too much. If you guys understood how hard it's been. How it felt - how it still feels! It feels like I'm dying") the gang swept under the rug because they didn't know how to help her or deal with their own mind-boggling guilt.

How the gang dealt with Buffy's depression is painfully realistic. People often don't know how to deal with someone who is clinically depressed so they shut down and try and ignore it. Especially for a group of 21 year olds. And in the gang's case, they felt responsible for Buffy's pain because it was a result of their own actions and trying to come to terms with that guilt was really hard for them because they were still glad that Buffy was alive and didn't know how to deal with Buffy's unhappiness about that. As Xander himself said -- "I just feel weird feeling bad that my friend's not dead. It's ... too mind-boggling"

The writing in S6 was brilliant. Don't mistake characters making what can appear to be illogical or silly decisions and assume it is a case of bad writing. In real life people don't always handle things in the most healthy way they can and having that reflected in your characters just makes them more three-dimensional and well-written. Buffy behaved exactly as many do when dealing with depression. The gang behaved exactly as many people do when trying to cope with a loved one dealing with depression. All of the character beats made complete sense based on where they were at this stage in their lives and what it was they were going through.



Buffy's entire tough love speech in Get It Done was trying to motivate the others to push themselves and step up to the plate. That Was The Entire purpose of the episode. Willow was a 'Wicca-who-wont-a", Spike was wallowing in his guilt and had lost his passion for the fight, Xander and Anya were scared, and the Potentials were being.... the Potentials. Buffy lashed out at the gang and called on them to "surprise themselves" and "force [themselves] to do what can't be done" as an attempt to make them all step up to the plate. Throwing herself into that portal was another act to force the gang to believe in themselves and prove that they still had what it takes. As the season progressed Buffy's leadership did become flawed as her coping mechanism was to shut people out but it was all fairly understandable given the odds stacked against them, the First Slayer telling her "it wasn't enough", Giles telling her "all eyes were on her" and it was up to her to lead now, and Buffy having the vision of the humongous Turok-Han army living in her head. Again, characters making mistakes is not a sign of bad writing unless the mistakes they're making are OOC or have no natural progression. I could easily plot out S7 step-by-step and demonstrate how Buffy's arc trajectory makes sense and is logical based on the circumstances at the time.



It isn't comparable at all. Faith led the AtS Team for what, an hour at most? She literally led them from the foyer of the Hyperion to the streets of LA and then sent Connor and Gunn back to the Hyperion. The remainder of her time in AtS was either Faith hunting for Angelus with just Wesley or lying in a coma. Gunn and Fred spent the rest of the time resenting her and Wesley ("Super-girl wouldn't have fallen for this piece of plastic junk"/"Like they would have been any help") and sitting back at the Hotel. You're greatly overestimating her leadership position on AtS and even then, that is no in no way comparable to trying to lead an army of over 30 people who are freaked out and yelling at you (some of whom are vying for some kind of leadership of their own like Kennedy) and having the responsibility of 30 young lives in your hands and leading everybody into an apocalyptic war where the fate of not only their lives but the entire worlds rests on your shoulders. There is no comparison.



AMANDA
We shouldn't have followed her -- it didn't work out

BUFFY
Guys! It's not her fault! It could have just as easily happened to me

...


FAITH
It never mattered to me. Somebody has to lead. Let's vote for Chao-Ahn. It's harder to lead people into a deathtrap if you don't speak English.

BUFFY
It wasn't your fault.

FAITH
(looks away) I'm really not looking for forgiveness.

BUFFY
You're not?

FAITH
What do you want me to say? I blew it.

BUFFY
You didn't blow it.

FAITH
Tell that to—

BUFFY
People die. You lead them into battle, they're gonna die. It doesn't matter how ready you are or how smart you are. War is about death. Needless, stupid death.



The show was very kind to Faith. She messed up, so what? So did Buffy in Dirty Girls when she led the gang into Caleb's trap. The writers had no problem having Buffy make mistakes in S7 and it resulted in the gang turning on her.



Nah, it all made sense. As I said above, people don't always know how to cope with someone suffering from depression so they try and carry on with their lives the best they can and ignore it. The way the gang dealt with their own guilt over their resurrection, their conflicting feelings about Buffy being alive again, their discomfort at her pain, and their own personal demons and dramas, was painfully realistic and well-written. As was how Buffy coped by trying to put on a brave face. It's reminiscent of so many cases I dealt with in my line of work (resurrections aside) and my own experience with depression. For right or wrong I didn't tell my family what was wrong out of shame and not wanting people to be concerned for me and finding it exhausting having to worry about their feelings as well as my own. S6 resonated with me so much and I'll always appreciate it and the writers for telling that story.




I'm well aware of that, thanks.
Excellent analysis!
 

GoSpuffy

Vampire Lover, I mean Slayer
Joined
Nov 2, 2015
Messages
2,490
Location
Vancouver, BC
Black Thorn
Don't give up hope yet, Spuffies, and, Bangels, don't start planning any victory celebration just yet. The fat lady ain't even walked up on the stage yet.

I remember something that a whole lot of you have either forgotten or missed entirely when it first came up. All I'm gonna say for right now is, it ain't over til it's over, and it ain't nowhere close to that point yet.

Remember, folks, you're hearing this from the guy who predicted that Buffy and Spike would get together in Season 10 THREE YEARS AGO.
looks like you're a genius. I haven't seen #29 yet but it doesn't seem like this is the end! Good call :)
 
Top Bottom