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Question about seal in basement

Tj2318h

Townie
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May 3, 2017
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So The First wants Tucker’s brother ;) to kill Jonathan for his blood to open the Seal.... why didn’t The First just have The Bringers kill one of their own and use his blood? Seems much easier?
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

Guest
So The First wants Tucker’s brother ;) to kill Jonathan for his blood to open the Seal.... why didn’t The First just have The Bringers kill one of their own and use his blood? Seems much easier?
The First tells Spike in "Never Leave Me" that the bringers draw too much attention, so he/she/it has avoided using them until then.
 

Tj2318h

Townie
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But they wouldn’t have been drawing attention as Buffy’s gang wasn’t even aware of it until Andrew. So they could have opened the seal had bunch of Uber vamps pop out and kill Buffy before she even knew what was happening
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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According to the First Evil's Live Journal, the First could have found someone else to do the job, but she prefers to use minions that have appeared on the show before. Besides, using crazy people as day laborers is someone else's gig. Honestly, the First seems to want Andrew as a minion, he is a fairly good demon summoner by all accounts, and he's easy to manipulate. I would also guess the First can't cut up a Harbinger, it's against the rules that we were never told about.
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
Was it a certain type of blood sacrifice? Like, the seal had to be open by the blood of betrayal or similar. I probably assumed something like that. Andrew and Warren interactions turn me right off the tv.
 

thetopher

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And then when Andrew murdered Jonathan and that didn't work- for whatever reason- the only way to fix it and open the seal was...animal blood? Or, in a pinch, Spike.

So its not that I think the type of blood even matters; little guy, pig or vampire, what's the diff?

You could maybe say that the initial sacrifice by Andrew is the one that mattered- since it took 'the tears of a betrayer' to close down its weird bad vibes- but after Jonathan any blood would do,
Bringers could've grabbed people off the street, Hell, The First could've gotten blacked out trigger-Spike to open it at any time whatsoever, with one of those random victims he slaughtered.
 

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
Ah yeah I forgot all the others that could open it too. What do Jonathan, Spike and pig have in common I wonder?
 

thetopher

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Maybe they were all picked on; life's perennial victims? Although only original-William and Jonathan would qualify, since I don't know how to tell if a pig's ever been bullied. lol
....
sour pork? leaves
 

Taake

Prophet of the Lord
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Black Thorn
The thread title just made me think that was a different season it would've been if it had been an actual seal in the basement. But you know, like a really big mean one. A boss seal.
13203

As for the question… lazy writing? It just doesn't seem to make sense that the Bringers would draw that much attention, they seemed pretty stealthy back in Amends. Sneaking into the basement shouldn't be impossible for them.
 

katmobile

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I think the First likes to eff with people but I think the theory that the blood itself wasn't enough there had to betrayal behind it. It's clear from Storyteller that Andrew feeding the seal it's first blood meant it had to HIS tears to neutralise it. Otherwise it would or could have been Spike's. So the fact that wasn't just blood and tears would make sense they represented Andrew's ruthless detachment and his corruption in sacrificing his friend for a life and using that ruthless effer Warren's image to do it and his tears of remourse and guilt that neutralised it.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
That's brilliant!

katmobile

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Thrasherpix I can't claim full credit as Hoppyhippy and thetopher had the idea of betrayal being part of the mix in opening the seal. Also there was a computer game I played once where had to perform specific feats to open doors with treasure behind them and one was committ an act of great evil in front of the gatekeeper.
 

katmobile

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It's funny but this is part of the reason I enjoy discourse about Buffy that amongst a whole bunch of theories that strike you as an insane troll logic you get one that really makes you think and gives a whole new perspective.
 

Ethan Reigns

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I think the First likes to eff with people but I think the theory that the blood itself wasn't enough there had to betrayal behind it. It's clear from Storyteller that Andrew feeding the seal it's first blood meant it had to HIS tears to neutralise it. Otherwise it would or could have been Spike's. So the fact that wasn't just blood and tears would make sense they represented Andrew's ruthless detachment and his corruption in sacrificing his friend for a life and using that ruthless effer Warren's image to do it and his tears of remourse and guilt that neutralised it.
In Chosen, the potentials and the two slayers opened the seal with their blood. No betrayal was evident. They slashed their own hands (which would have made it impossible to hold a weapon since the blood would act like a lubricant) and the seal opened immediately.
 
SiobanD1981
SiobanD1981
Good point!
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
We've always thought about the Buffyverse more than the writers, especially for season 7

thetopher

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In Chosen, the potentials and the two slayers opened the seal with their blood. No betrayal was evident.
Yeah, that's a point/plot hole right there. Same with the fact that in End Of Days there are suddenly Turok Hans out and about attacking Potentials. ??? That shouldn't have been possible given that the seal hadn't been reopened as of yet. Where the hell did they come from?

Given that slayer blood re-opened the seal I'm gonna say that opening it needed a 'potent blood sacrifice'; that's why Andrew';s knife was special- it made Jonathan's blood magically special by stabbing him.
So then The First needed Spike- blood of a vampire with a soul- to fully open up the seal. And then slayer/Potential blood reopens it later.
It's not a great theory but it works if you squint long enough.
 

katmobile

Scooby
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The seal isn't closed by Andrew's tears it's just inactive i.e. it's magical effects aren't causing havoc. Once it's been fed its first blood then any old blood will do to open it and FYI slayer blood is pretty powerful. I like my theory, other people like my theory you helped give me the idea for it topher lose your brownie point bad topher 😜
 
thetopher
thetopher
I am merely lightly polishing and refining your theory, which was inspired by my ideas. So.. sorrynotsorry. :P

katmobile

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Op
Yeah, that's a point/plot hole right there. Same with the fact that in End Of Days there are suddenly Turok Hans out and about attacking Potentials. ??? That shouldn't have been possible given that the seal hadn't been reopened as of yet. Where the hell did they come from?

Given that slayer blood re-opened the seal I'm gonna say that opening it needed a 'potent blood sacrifice'; that's why Andrew';s knife was special- it made Jonathan's blood magically special by stabbing him.
So then The First needed Spike- blood of a vampire with a soul- to fully open up the seal. And then slayer/Potential blood reopens it later.
It's not a great theory but it works if you squint long enough.
We're the people attacking potentials bringers? You don't need a Turok Han to take down a potential.
 
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