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Ray Fisher finally speaks on what happened

Btvs fan

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Honestly, the stuff about boasting about threatening Gal Gadot is awful but what happened to Ray himself is kinda minor.

 

Taake

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I’m sorry but... This is what it was all about? comments like
FA7168B5-7135-49DF-A633-0C4AE6D26597.jpeg
and
82553D61-6678-48D7-86AD-68EEAB7BD4A3.jpeg Joss seems like a bit of an ass, although, but by directors standards I’d say this is pretty minor indeed. This seems more like a creative clash to me. Fisher signed up for a Snyder movie but ended up in a Whedon movie. I feel bad for him and how he feels his character was treated but this ^^ is...not exactly shocking or appalling behavior.

The Gal Gadot stuff seems worse, but is also alleged, I suppose.

The article was oddly flippant about Snyder departing from the project too, playing more on Fisher being stunned, than Snyder’s very understandable reasons (his daughter’s suicide)

I didn’t make it till the absolute end, because it is so long, but did I miss something really severe Joss did? I’m sorry if I did, please correct me if I missed something big.
 
Spanky
Spanky
No, that's not what it's all about. As the article said, he doesn't want to expose those who had issues without their permission.

Spanky

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Snyder’s very understandable reasons (his daughter’s suicide)
That has been debunked a while ago according to Snyder. He was set to carry on, but the studio didn't want him to do so.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Ray Fisher still whining on about imagined racism because he's a "person of colour" who didn't get his own way. Meghan Markle pulled the same stunt too.

Racism used to be serious, now it's just an accusation "oppressed" celebrities throw around because they didn't get what they wanted, that they felt they were "entitled" too.

Fisher can't go anywhere from this. He's done the cryptic tweets, done the investigation melodrama, now done the tell all interview. His little temper tantrum isn't winning him any fans.
 
burrunjor
burrunjor
Agreed Joss sounds like a pretentious asshole. Whoopdie doo we've all known that for years. To try and link this to racism is absurd of Fisher and undermines real claims of racism.

Cheese Slices

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Leaving the Gal Gadot thing aside (she has not confirmed it and this isn't Fisher's business anyway), it seems like Fisher's whole deal is pretty much much ado about nothing (pun fully intended).
He's an ass : that was pretty much established a long time ago.
He doesn't like it when an actor wants to give him input : ditto.
Now didn't he originally claim that Whedon had made racist comments or something similar ? I'm really confused right now.
 
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B
Btvs fan
Gal Gadot did say she went to the WB and they dealt with it. If I had to guess, Whedon firing was due to that other than Fisher

Btvs fan

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As maybe - it doesn't mean Ray didn't find it distressing. That aside, either I've lost 30 IQ points over the course of the day or it's just piffle-paffle-waffle. I got bored; couldn't absorb it and couldn't finish it.
This is a short more concise version
 

Spanky

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Whedon: "I can make look incredibly stupid in this movie"
 

The Bronze

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Christ I lost the will to live reading that. Didn't make it to the end. Seems exactly as I assumed when it was first brought up, creative dispute turned sour.

Would be interesting, I use the term loosely, to know if all these actors have got WWE style contracts with creative control clauses for their characters. If they do then that should be a lesson learned for those at the top about too many cooks. If they don't then the actors should say the lines and ask for a clause next time if they hate it so much.
 

DeadlyDuo

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If they don't then the actors should say the lines and ask for a clause next time if they hate it so much.
I doubt there is going to be a "next time" for Fisher. He's well and truly shot himself in the foot. Warner Bros almost certainly won't work with him again and his very public temper tantrum and his refusal to drop it when it's been over for a while (since 2017) is not going to endear himself to other studios. His Hollywood career is over.

Also I think it reflects badly on CC due to her rushing to jump on the Ray Fisher bandwagon.
 

Btvs fan

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I doubt there is going to be a "next time" for Fisher. He's well and truly shot himself in the foot. Warner Bros almost certainly won't work with him again and his very public temper tantrum and his refusal to drop it when it's been over for a while (since 2017) is not going to endear himself to other studios. His Hollywood career is over.

Also I think it reflects badly on CC due to her rushing to jump on the Ray Fisher bandwagon.
I agree though I think that goes for Whedon too. Though ironically (given that apart from a short statement saying it was dealt with she never went public) not for anything he did to Ray Fisher which seems mild at best but more about the Gal Gadot and Patti Jenkins stuff.

It wasn't just CC, there was a lot of cast members who came out with stuff on Whedon. At least with CC she was being honest and went into detail from the start.
 

thetopher

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I doubt there is going to be a "next time" for Fisher. He's well and truly shot himself in the foot.
Yeah, its a shame because he acts quite well in the Snyder Cut. I mean, his Cyborg-character is poorly written garbage but he has a lot more to do as an actor.

I'm sure he'll still get some work because of the 'stand' he made here, just with more independent films/makers
 

The Bronze

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He might get more work, might not. As always it'll be a financial decision. He seems to have a reasonable level of support but I don't know how easy that is for someone to monetize.

I think a lot of people are going along with this because they agree with the general sentiment and are not engaging critically with the specifics. It channels people's frustration with the system in general, others industry specific issues and a general ill will towards Whedon.

It's a bit like if I wrote to the FA complaining that I haven't been made the England goalkeeper. Yes Pickford is a liability. Yes Southgate appears to have a blindspot and picks him regardless. However just because those big problems exist doesn't mean my specific complaint has any merit.
 
Priceless
Priceless
Liking the football analogy

Btvs fan

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He might get more work, might not. As always it'll be a financial decision. He seems to have a reasonable level of support but I don't know how easy that is for someone to monetize.

I think a lot of people are going along with this because they agree with the general sentiment and are not engaging critically with the specifics. It channels people's frustration with the system in general, others industry specific issues and a general ill will towards Whedon.

It's a bit like if I wrote to the FA complaining that I haven't been made the England goalkeeper. Yes Pickford is a liability. Yes Southgate appears to have a blindspot and picks him regardless. However just because those big problems exist doesn't mean my specific complaint has any merit.
Regardless its all the other stuff that's ended Whedon career
 

darkspook

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I think there has been a narrative shift from Whedon is a racist to Whedon is sexist, egotistical jerk who believed his own hype. We as fans will never know what truly went on during that shoot. There is a part of me that wishes there would be a documentary film released about the making of Justice Leaque ala Lost in La Mancha a 2002 documentary film about the making of Terry Gilliam's first attempt at The Man Who Killed Don Quixote. It would be an fascinating viewing: Zack Snyder clearly committing 100% to his vision undeterred by the criticism of Batman vs Superman, a studio clearly panicking over Mavrel's growing success, Whedon clearly high on himself acting out on set etc.

I have said it once or twice but I do feel that Whedon really should make a statement addressing all that has been said about him. However thinking about it perhaps not as I mentioned there is clearly been a narrative shift so maybe he hopes for another one where everyone just stops talking about it. His reputation is in tatters, no one at the moment wants to work with him (he was fired from his own show 'The Nevers') and his behaviour is still being mention online. Then again I guess there are risks about speaking up and tackling what is said about you head on as look at Armie Hammer. Different cases grant you but Hammer's response was to lawyer up and publicly deny all that was said about him only for it look to now back fire. Whedon has made a conscious choice not engage nor address anything. Neither man held up his hands and admitted to some bad behaviour, excuse themselves for being young, stupid and promised to seek help etc as others might have done in their position.

Heck director James Gunn was fired by Disney for tweets that he wrote between 2008 and 2012, joking about topics like rape, 9/11, child abuse, and pedophilia. He was hired by another rival studio in this case Warner Bros and has now been rehired by Disney so things can change and we never know what will happen in the future. I think in Gunn's case he released a statement concerning the tweets taking full responsibility and had much support from within the industry.
 

TriBel

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I think there has been a narrative shift from Whedon is a racist to Whedon is sexist, egotistical jerk who believed his own hype.
Some racism is clearly racism and we can legislate against it. Other forms are less obvious. I had a black female student one year who wrote about "the angry black women" trope in relation to an award winning BBC series we'd watched (IIRC, it was Holding On). It had gone completely over my head but when she explained it I thought she had a point and I could see why she was offended. I'm not sure she was right in the context of the text...Holding On is an incredibly layered and complex text...but I could understand the justification for her argument...and, this was part of her reality not mine (I'm not even sure there's a stereotype of the "angry white woman"...perhaps the Karen that's emerged recently?). It's often micro-aggressions that matter - they add up - so I kinda get Fisher's annoyance at the "angry black man" remark and his reluctance to use a catchphrase (only black youth use "street" vernacular?).

For much of the time Whedon talks bollocks. I've yet to read an interview with him where I haven't thought - is he being ironic? Is he using sarcasm? These are defensive strategies and he's defensive at the best of times...he'll be doubly so when it might be necessary. If he makes any sort of statement I hope it's through a lawyer.

Above and beyond that, I really can't motivate myself to care.
 
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