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Ray Fisher finally speaks on what happened

NothingVentured

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Joined
Jun 22, 2014
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363
I agree that it does not excuse his behavior, however his behavior as now detailed by Fisher appears to primarily be a creative clash, so the studios decision to bring in Whedon is rather relevant as Fisher signed up for a completely different movie really. Which really sucks, as once he was committed to the project he couldnt just leave despite the huge changes made. If Whedon had been at the helm from the start, things may have been different as the conflict wouldn’t have arisen mid-project. Though, it seems like the studio was wrong wanting Whedon in the first place, as it appears that the audience in general always wanted the Snyder cut/version!
You can clash creatively and still be respectful. He knew what the WB wanted and agreed to do it. He shouldn't have. The WB basically wanted to compress a storyline as sprawling as Infinity War/Endgame into a sub 2hr movie. It can't be done.

As far as the quality of the final product in either case, I don't blame either Snyder or Whedon. It's on the WB and top execs there. It's hard to say what fans wanted, but I don't think fans of the DCverse wanted their franchise "Marvelized" especially when so many of the storylines used are quite similar to ones the MCU already did.
 

Synch

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Mar 19, 2020
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43
Snyder shot about 5h (rough cut), cut it to about 4h and showed it to WB in Jan '17 even though Warner asked him to do a film less dark, and more light in tone, compared to BvS, and with 2h of running time. Snyder tried to convince them with his 4h cut and they said it was 'unwatchable'.

WB hired Joss around March (Batgirl) and brought him to JL with Snyder still directing it. They met only once to discuss studio notes.

I guess Joss accepted in exchange of his Batgirl project. Maybe only as a script doctor/new artistic voice. Snyder left around May 2017 and then Joss took over at 100%.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Dec 23, 2013
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Sineya
and they said it was 'unwatchable'.
Only in the figurative sense. :)
I would credit Joss at least a little for trying to trim a 4hr crapfest to a 2h one, wasting less of everyone's time. Also trying to make Superman a little less...'Psychotic Murderman-y', plus we have more understandable human motivations for many of the characters (because Zach seems incapable of writing humans well).
Yes, we got lame jokes and a bizarre rubber-lip Supes, less Cyborg and Flash, but also much less sloooowww-mmooo and no more godawful Leto-Joker.
 
darkspook
darkspook
He did what he was hired to do... acted like a massive jerk while doing it but it was still the job he was asked by the studio.

darkspook

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Dec 13, 2020
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I was just thinking the other day that it is interesting to note that from what I understand Zach Snyder's endgame was for Superman's son to become the new batman. I'm not on my comic book lore but I'm pretty sure that is massively against canon and what has been done before. Seen little or no blowback. All the comic book fans who demanded a Snyder cut hadn't gone 'hey wait a minute!' Again no doubt a lot of this is the news and stories about Joss in the media but just interesting that Snyder seems to get a free pass on changing characterization or key relationships.
 

Spanky

Scooby
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Aug 12, 2008
Messages
23,611
Black Thorn
Superman's son turning into the next Batman would be awesome. It'd see it. Especially if the Superman were dead and Batman was left to raise the kid. Yeah, I could like that actually.
 

Dogs of Winter

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Jul 10, 2020
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I finally read the Hollywood Reporter article with Ray Fisher and I am still waiting for the explosive revelations he has been promising.

One of the people it mentions in the article is a Nadria Tucker who worked with Geoff Johns and who was brought in to support Ray Fishers allegations against Geoff Johns (who was being accused alongside Joss) . GJ had objected when a black female character on a show he was on had changed her hairstyle which would affect continuity. NT had dismissed this and told him that Black women tend to change our hair frequently. It’s not weird, it’s a Black thing and he had replied ‘No, it’s not.’
So NT had refused to speak to GJ since that day as he didn't have the right to disagree with her as a black lady when she said it was a black thing .

This seems bizarre. Just because NT is black doesnt mean she can speak for all black ladies. There may be a lot of black ladies who do change their hair frequently but there are also plenty who don't. Its just a stereotype and GJ was right to pull her up on it, and he had been married to a black lady at one time so probably knew at least something about it.
Not to mention if he wants continuity for a character on a show then he has every right to complain if they suddenly change their hairstyle without telling anyone

There are so many genuine complaints out there re discrimination and to me things like this belittle those genuine ones

 

Bufy

Townie
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Jun 2, 2021
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If you are an actor suggesting things and the writer dismisses it then I don’t think that’s a reason to go complaining about it, specially publicly, after all a writer knows best, let them do their job, however, the stuff that was said that came from Charisma is definitely serious and it sadly ruined the perception I had of Whedon forever.
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
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Black Thorn
Here's a thought, could it be that most actors were not much good and needed lots of directing. We have known of Joss' failings for many many years. His wife complained of his attitudes when doing BTVS. But the thing is the end result gave him extra impetus to his own belief he was right to act the way he had. In the films since then virtually most of them became quite successful. Strange how the actors in those films are now complaining about his attitude.
So here's my theory, if Joss Whedon hadn't behaved the way he had would we be asking what the failed actor Ray Fisher from the failed film Justice League was complaining about?
 

Punkie

Townie
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
17
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52
Fischer sounds like a spoiled brat who wants to lash out because he didn’t get his way. He needs to grow up.
 
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