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Riley...respect

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
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UK
To be honest I more took that because she was feeling so low about herself she wanted someone to reassure her she was wanted
Yes, that was definitely part of it, but the fact she goes to Spike for that reassurance is quite telling.
 

LemonBanana

Glorious Purpose
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Jul 9, 2020
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383
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London
Sineya
Hi @AstridDante, I love your post and have respect for you! I though Riley was really sweet and it broke my heart when he went a bit down hill! I think it means quite a lot, coming from Spuffy shippers as I have spoken to a few and they have it in for Riley 😂! I loved your post! 😊 💕
 
M

M

Guest
I actually really like Riley. I know he gets called boring a lot, but I think he's actually kind of cool and interesting. Let's examine this from a different angle:

If Angel or Spike (pick your ship) had to be human for the rest of their existence, but were also simultaneously going to be Buffy's long-term romantic interest (no more interference from the other guy) how would he fit into Buffy's slayer existence? How would you want him to fit in? Would you be ok with him being helpless and unable to assist fighting demons, or would you rather he be like Riley, a human fully capable through skill and training to take down creatures that only those magically endowed can handle?

For my own part, given the above scenario, I'd hope that my pick would develop Riley-esque skills and be an asset to Buffy. Moreover, Riley enjoyed and was supportive of the fact that Buffy was strong and able to fight demons. He let her do her thing. That is massively attractive in a guy. Riley's only real fault, as far as I can see, is that he begins whining for not getting enough of Buffy's attention. However, that being said, she didn't 100% value Riley. She tried, but it just wasn't natural for her, and he knew it.

Let's face it. Buffy wasn't drawn to Riley the same way she was to Angel or Spike. It's like Spike said, "she likes a little monster in her man," and I don't think this is merely in the fantasy sense. Buffy likes badboys. It's one of Buffy's flaws. She says she wants a good guy, but really it's the darkness that gets her hot. Moreover, I think Buffy needs that darkness for someone to be able to relate to her. I think on some level, she doesn't feel Riley will ever truly know her or where she's coming from, and she's probably right about that.

However, just because Riley isn't Buffy's perfect fit, and doesn't carry around an interestingly dark past, doesn't make him boring. He's adventurous, an adrenaline junky, relatabley flawed in the most human sense, and has near superhuman skills that he developed through hard work and focused training. It's just that compared to real superhumans, he looks like dry toast. Otherwise, among the rest of us, he'd make for a great main character with his own show.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
9,611
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31
or would you rather he be like Riley, a human fully capable through skill and training to take down creatures that only those magically endowed can handle?

The issue with Riley isn't his physical skill, it's the fact that he can't accept that Buffy is stronger than him and doesn't NEED him. The word "need" comes out of Riley's mouth an awful lot in regards to Buffy. He wants her to need him because if you need something, you're not going to get rid of it. Riley displays a lot of red flags in regards to Buffy (there are plenty of examples). The show likes to pretend Riley is this wholesome character that Buffy should want to be with and he's really not. As much as I dislike Spuffy, at least it was honest about how unhealthy it was, Briley lies and pretends to be wholesome yet could easily develop into something worse than Spuffy. Riley's ultimatum was basically "give me a reason to stay or it's your fault if I leave". If Buffy had stopped Riley leaving, she would be trapped in that relationship because she would feel like she owed Riley to make it work, even if she was unhappy, because she would've cost him his chance to re-join the military.

Buffy entered into Spuffy knowing that it wasn't good for her, she would've sleepwalked her way into the dark side of Briley before she even realised it.
 
M

M

Guest
The issue with Riley isn't his physical skill, it's the fact that he can't accept that Buffy is stronger than him and doesn't NEED him. The word "need" comes out of Riley's mouth an awful lot in regards to Buffy. He wants her to need him because if you need something, you're not going to get rid of it. Riley displays a lot of red flags in regards to Buffy (there are plenty of examples). The show likes to pretend Riley is this wholesome character that Buffy should want to be with and he's really not. As much as I dislike Spuffy, at least it was honest about how unhealthy it was, Briley lies and pretends to be wholesome yet could easily develop into something worse than Spuffy. Riley's ultimatum was basically "give me a reason to stay or it's your fault if I leave". If Buffy had stopped Riley leaving, she would be trapped in that relationship because she would feel like she owed Riley to make it work, even if she was unhappy, because she would've cost him his chance to re-join the military.

Buffy entered into Spuffy knowing that it wasn't good for her, she would've sleepwalked her way into the dark side of Briley before she even realised it.
See, it's not that I don't think this is unhealthy, but I can see why he feels this way. The bottom line is that they were both trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. I think as friends they could have been great, but as lovers, there just wasn't enough there for either of them. Riley may say it, poorly even, but there is something off about the relationship that Buffy is unwilling or unable to see.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Dec 23, 2013
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10,809
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The Moot, England
Sineya
I like Riley. He's solidly okay in my book. He's not brilliant, he's not terrible, I'm not that passionate about him except that he made Buffy's life better when they were a couple. Maybe he wasn't 'the long haul guy' but he loved her for a time, they ended and then he moved on. The moving on healthily actually impresses me quite a bit, really rare on this show when it comes to Buffy.

I like Riley in 'As You Were' as well, he doesn't judge Buffy, he doesn't make her feel degraded or ashamed (unlike Mr. 'She's not your bint anymore mate', how sweet), he respects her decision when she says that she doesn't want Spike killed (therefore he's not a yes-man who blindly follows orders, he has discretion) and then he gives her some perspective.
Like I mentioned once upon a time on a previous thread its not like Riley hadn't been almost exactly where Buffy was. She caught him in a crusty flophouse getting his suck on with a vamptramp, desperately trying to feel a connection and making bad choices in the process. That was his low point. So he doesn't really have a right to judge, nor does he, he empathizes, he's been there, and he knows that it can and does get better, which is precisely what he tells Buffy.

Yeah, their scene together at the end of the episode is kind of wonderful.
 
Antho
Antho
I agree the hates he receives by fans in « as you were » is unfair

Mott1

Townie
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Messages
21
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47
On a re-watch of Buffy I am finding a new found liking for Riley. Especially how he treated Buffy in As You Were. Even though her life was in the crapshoot, he was so not judgemental and really spoke so highly of her. He didn’t even pass judgement on her sleeping with Spike. It made me see him in a more positive light. This is coming from a huge Spuffy shipper.
I always used to defend Riley, and I still do, as well as Blucas' performance. His quiet, more traditional outlook on life moved Buffy into a new area of her life, where she would be unable to subjugate herself for 'normality', and his arc in s5 highlighted an area that isn't often explored in shows I've seen, where decent men are damaged by feeling lesser than their wives or girlfriends, and unable to articulate it.

He didn't deserve to get all the carping, and as people say he (kind of accidentally) psychologically moved Buffy away from the damaging carnal relationship with Spike when he popped up in s6. The character's development was probably a little hindered by the sudden departure of Lindsay Crouse, but the emotional tug of war in s4 was vital to stop it spilling over into too much farce.
 

Ihamze94

Townie
Joined
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27
I don't think he forgets to tell her, I think he planned to and then Buffy asks "did you die? I'm going to win" so he doesn't get the opportunity to tell.
I didn't get why people are mad that Riley didn't tell Buffy he was married. First of all he was focused on tracking the demon and second of all he just assumed it wouldn't be important to Buffy seeing as they broke up the year before. Plus I'm pretty sure he was going to tell her afterwards because he said that he had some stories to tell her. I don't see anyone judging Buffy for her part. She was sleeping with Spike yet flirted with Riley so why aren't people being critical of her for that? She wasn't exactly honest either.
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I don't mind Riley through seasons 4 and 5 but I really dislike him in season 6. He flirts with Buffy and forgets to tell her he's married, which I think is really poor of him.
 
Antho
Antho
Completely agree with you. I have said this word by word on some others threads.

Ihamze94

Townie
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In that episode Buffy takes a leap forward in her relationship with Spike, 'tell me you love me . . . tell me you want me . . .'
Prior to that I'm not sure she cared if he loved her or wanted her. Now she does care, and she wants to hear him say it. I think if Riley hadn't marched into Spike's crypt accusing him of being the doctor, Spike and Buffy's relationship would have only improved from then on because Buffy would have given him more of a chance.
Umm, I don't think Buffy loved him then nor did she want to take the next step in the relationship. She was feeling sad about Riley being married and how he's in a better place in his life than she is. When Sam asked whether Buffy was seeing anyone interesting, it reminded her how stagnate her life was and wanted Spike to say he loved her to feel better about herself. She knew she was using him and later realised that it couldn't go on.
 

Dora

Scooby
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In that episode Buffy takes a leap forward in her relationship with Spike, 'tell me you love me . . . tell me you want me . . .'
Prior to that I'm not sure she cared if he loved her or wanted her. Now she does care, and she wants to hear him say it. I think if Riley hadn't marched into Spike's crypt accusing him of being the doctor, Spike and Buffy's relationship would have only improved from then on because Buffy would have given him more of a chance.

I believe Buffy was asking Spike if he loved her, wanted her, so she felt better about herself sleeping with him, Riley came back happy , Married, where Buffy's life could hardly be worse, Riley was not judgemental of Buffy and his speech to her in as you were gave Buffy the mental ability to stop Spike being able to manipulate her, it made her feel worthy about herself, hence being able to stop Spike in seeing red ( because I stopped you like I should have done long ago ) .No real grief with Riley he was a old fashioned type of guy that was unable to see past the male thing of being dominant in the relationship ( man goes to work woman looks after house ) in fact the only grief I have with him he lets Spike of the hook twice when he should have been blowing in the wind
 

Ihamze94

Townie
Joined
Nov 28, 2021
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30
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I believe Buffy was asking Spike if he loved her, wanted her, so she felt better about herself sleeping with him, Riley came back happy , Married, where Buffy's life could hardly be worse, Riley was not judgemental of Buffy and his speech to her in as you were gave Buffy the mental ability to stop Spike being able to manipulate her, it made her feel worthy about herself, hence being able to stop Spike in seeing red ( because I stopped you like I should have done long ago ) .No real grief with Riley he was a old fashioned type of guy that was unable to see past the male thing of being dominant in the relationship ( man goes to work woman looks after house ) in fact the only grief I have with him he lets Spike of the hook twice when he should have been blowing in the wind
Nice comment but didn't he marry someone who was tough and independent? His type are warrior women, not home makers. He liked having a partner to have adventures with.
 

Dora

Scooby
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Nice comment but didn't he marry someone who was tough and independent? His type are warrior women, not home makers. He liked having a partner to have adventures with.
True, but she was not super human and in the future I think Sam would be the one to make a home and Children, where Buffy and her calling could never
 

Ihamze94

Townie
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You can be tough and independent and still want kids and a home. You can be a mom and a career woman. Sam is still a extremely skilled fighter who's taken out nests of vampires and other demons around the world with Riley. Yes super strength is nice but people have placed too much importance on it. Having it didn't stop Buffy from being staked by a normal vampire (5x07) and not having it didn't stop Riley from avenging her by getting rid of 3 vampires in the same episode. She's also not impervious to bullets.
 

Dora

Scooby
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You can be tough and independent and still want kids and a home. You can be a mom and a career woman. Sam is still a extremely skilled fighter who's taken out nests of vampires and other demons around the world with Riley. Yes super strength is nice but people have placed too much importance on it. Having it didn't stop Buffy from being staked by a normal vampire (5x07) and not having it didn't stop Riley from avenging her by getting rid of 3 vampires in the same episode. She's also not impervious to bullets.
Again true Sam is all that but Buffy had a calling, remember Buffy had died twice and been injured many times( back hurt in Seeing red ) as with Riley not taking out Spike when as you put he I just don't understand why, plastic stake ?disobeying orders ? Riley always had military type weapons when Sam and Riley returned they also had strong suits and stab vests where Buffy has none, no modern weapons, take cross bows for instance, why would not Giles get Buffy the latest carbon fibre cross bow?
 

Ihamze94

Townie
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It wouldn't be a bad idea for Buffy to learn to use weapons. It would be useful if she wanted to attacks something long distance. It would also help if she wore something that would shield her chest because she's been hit more than twice in the show and almost died because of it. I thought it was cool how characters like Riley, Sam and Graham had found ways to fight equally with demons with only weapons and their military training. It showed that humans characters in the show can protect themselves like they're hunters in the show Supernatural.
 

katmobile

Scooby
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It's not the last time we see Riley - he shows up in Season 7 to either replace or remove Spike's chip and he follows Buffy's advice and removes it.
I actually had a lot of respect for Riley for that in the end he trusted her judgement more than Giles did.
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There's a thread in the Cemetery that pretty much covers what I was referring to as my Riley Conspiracy Theory if anyone would care to check it out.
Captain Cardboard, or How I Learned To Stop Seething And Love "As You Were"
If anyone cares to pursue that subject any further, maybe we should do this in a separate thread
Yeah I'd be up for that. A lot of it rings true for me. Look people are complex - equal parts good and bad. It doesn't mean Riley isn't a good guy or Spike wasn't culpable enough that it rightfully brought Buffy to her senses about him.
 
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