So, I'm still kind of learning this site and posting etiquette in terms of what goes where, but, here are some thoughts I've had watching Season 3 so far
1. I would love to see the story of the alternate universe where Willow and Xander become pets to the Master; when? how? Darla was there for decades... Willow and Xander were potentially there for less than a year. How did they become so close to the Master? The Master literally designates them his most vicious disciples... how and why?
2. Who's idea was Buffy's hair in Amends? Short bangs were not it.
This is truly just so far.
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Truly open to discussion or theories!
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Maybe not on the bangs... that's just a personal preference.
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ILLYRIANI've been on this site for *cough* years and I often get posts moved by 'the powers that be'.
I agree it was weird that Willow and Xander were so far up the food chain so fast.
I can only speculate, Willow had a dark side even back then, perhaps she did something that impressed the Master. Or their proximity to the white hats before being turned gave them some advantages over other vampires in the town.
Two possibilities:
Angel managed to take out Luke and Darla before being captured; he wasn't the greatest fighter in S1 but desperation might've made him more competent and daring.
The more likely is that VampWillow was so twisted from the off (kinda like Angelus) that she quickly out-paced her sire - probably Darla or even The Master based on the events of The Harvest- in terms of viciousness and ambition and so recruited her Xander and made a power-play against Luke. Luke doesn't seem like the brightest; just a big, dumb true-believer who would see a back-staking coming.
The Master is the kind of vamp-leader that would've been impressed by such ruthlessness...but not against Darla, so Vamp!Willow would've had to finesse something different. Blame Darla's unfortunate death on White hats or something. But we know that Willow likes power, I'm sure vamp!Willow is actually supremely power hungry.
And since the Mayor wasn't around, I'd guess V-Willow and Xander got rid of him. They'd think outside the box, with Willow having her ability to hack his schedule, even change it (and thinking like a hacker, also learn who was on his staff, vamp him out, and use him as an assassin, at least cannon fodder). Taking out the Mayor should greatly impress the Master.
It could've even been with Luke and Darla, who Mayor Wilkins focused on first. But I prefer to think Willow and Xander were involved in taking out Darla and Luke somehow.
Angel is a wild card, but seems too much of a coward (at that time) to draw much attention from them. And taking his complicated relationship with Darla, it seems unlikely he'd take out Darla even if he could.
But of course this is putting a lot more thought into it than the writers. (Though I mean no disrespect to the writers, at least most of the time when I say this, who were hired to write in a different style under different rules and requirements, and I'm sure no notion that people would be thinking hard about it to this day. Still could've used a series bible.)
First, apologies, I see I posted this in Angel Season 3, not Buffy... I threw a surprise birthday party for my best friend yesterday, and the booze was a-flowin'.
Second, love the theories! This is what I was looking for last night when I couldn't really type, haha!!!
Well, I assume there was some fighting between the vamps and the humans, before the humans lost and were confined to daylight hours. Vampires can still die, and Luke seems like the type who could be tricked into picking up a flash bang.
It's a great episode but the entire thing pretty much falls apart if you think about it even a little bit. Why the hell would anyone still live in Sunnydale at that point? Presumably the Master's influence was confined to that general area since Buffy hadn't heard of him or his deeds until she arrived. No rational person would continue living in a place where anybody who happens to be out after sunset is killed and eaten when the rest of the world still seemed relatively normal.
It's a great episode but the entire thing pretty much falls apart if you think about it even a little bit. Why the hell would anyone still live in Sunnydale at that point? Presumably the Master's influence was confined to that general area since Buffy hadn't heard of him or his deeds until she arrived. No rational person would continue living in a place where anybody who happens to be out after sunset is killed and eaten when the rest of the world still seemed relatively normal.
It's actually interesting. I was just talking with a friend about how we still love the same genre of film, TV, and books that we did when we were teens, but the way we perceive them is very different. Reality as we grow tends to alter the way we view fantastical things. Instead of getting lost in the story and feeling immersed and "amongst", you watch or read and think, 'That would never happen because x, y, and z.' On the other hand, you can appreciate characters that you didn't when you were younger because you can better understand their perspective because you yourself can understand multiple perspectives, thanks to experience and living.
All that to say I envy those that can continue to more or less lose themselves in everything they watch or read. Don't let the world ruin your passions. Bunnies are evil. Yellow Crayons save lives. I agree that Angel was a better character in his own show (needed to throw a bit of Angel to make up for the fact I posted in the absolutely wrong thread lol).
People live in disaster and even war zones for years. Sometimes they have nowhere else to go.
On top of that, a disturbing amount of people will actually go to try to SEE a hurricane or tidal wave come in (many who are not seen again, but more show up to replace them). But I presume that is the mostly young (especially as it seems unlikely they'd be able to live to see a ripe old age).
I liked how it was described in the Stephen King novel of vampires. Everyone pretended things were normal, and yet crosses went up without thinking, the blinds were closed and never opened, and all that, just focus on the TV. They might mention it in hushed voices, but it was like rude and insensitive to bring it up at all.
People have done similar in many crazes, witch hunts, political and church scandals (that they not only stay, but continue to pay money to, possibly even send vulnerable people to their dangerous institutions), military occupations by foreign powers, secret police oppression, and holocausts who were not required to stay where they were at (not counting those who had no choice but to stay).
Sometimes the fear of change is stronger than the fear of what they know.
I remember reading an anecdote regarding World War 2. Probably fictional, but it applies. It went a little something like, “There were plenty of Jewish who stayed in Germany because they had pianos.” You don’t want to leave behind what you know, even in the face of problems and trouble.
So, I'm still kind of learning this site and posting etiquette in terms of what goes where, but, here are some thoughts I've had watching Season 3 so far
1. I would love to see the story of the alternate universe where Willow and Xander become pets to the Master; when? how? Darla was there for decades... Willow and Xander were potentially there for less than a year. How did they become so close to the Master? The Master literally designates them his most vicious disciples... how and why?
2. Who's idea was Buffy's hair in Amends? Short bangs were not it.
This is truly just so far.
Post automatically merged:
Truly open to discussion or theories!
Post automatically merged:
Maybe not on the bangs... that's just a personal preference.
Thomas turns Willow when he took her to the crypt. (If you remember the first episode. Okay Buffy told her to seize the moment, but she already went to the Bronze and it's not so unreasonable that he would have still zeroed in on Willow because she was easy meat for a vampire. Pretty, but lacking in confidence, desperate to be noticed. She's a vampires perfect prey.)
After becoming a vampire, Willow sires Xander. Meanwhile at the Bronze for the Harvest, Angel as others have pointed out is forced to take a direct role with no Buffy. Here he is forced to stake Darla and stop the Harvest. The Master is furious, and Willow and Xander soon shoot up the food chain, because unlike the Masters other vampires who are all ancient and have lived underground shunning the world, they are young, know the world above, can blend in with it better, and help get him new people to turn and feed on more easily. The Master in turn comes to see value in this new world thanks to their influence. He sees that is the perfect place for vampires as the general public is ignorant or too scared to fight them, and its full of decadence and corruption he can exploit. He decides to postpone bringing the old ones back just yet. He chooses the Bronze as his base in tribute to Darla. Meanwhile Xander and Willow are eager to get revenge on Angel too because he dusted Jessie (who was also sired.) Their familiarity with the modern world, even more so than Angel allows them to lure him into a trap, which gets them a promotion for capturing the traitor.
Finally Xander and Willow make the perfect vampires and are singled out for their viciousness for the following reasons. Vampires remember are people. In Buffy the soul and the spirit are two separate entities.
The soul is where you mind, thoughts, memories are. When you die it floats off to heaven or hell, or becomes trapped on earth as a Ghost. The soul meanwhile is where your empathy, compassion, and ability to tell right from wrong come from. The soul therefore can be removed when you're alive.
Meanwhile vampires are where the person dies, their spirit is trapped in the body, the soul is removed, and a demon is inserted into the body that revives it. The spirit is still in charge however, but now with no soul, it has no empathy, and the demon adds a killer instinct and heightens any negative traits the person has in life
Now those with the most issues, grief, anger etc often make the best vampires as the demon has a lot to work with. You don't have to be evil in life however for this to apply. Now Willow and Xander were both rejects in life, both bullied, humiliated etc by their peers. There is a lot of rage, resentment for the demon to unleash, with no empathy. Others meanwhile were maybe more well adjusted in life and so became just a twisted, predator like the rest of them, but that extra resentment in Xander and Willow made them monstrous.
As for Buffy's bangs, I didn't mind them, but Xena suited bangs more.
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