Season 7 the Worst of All

[Purplemess317]

Agree or disagree and why

 

[Antho]

For me, the worst of the seasons ? I don't know, I still enjoy this season when I watch it but it's undoubtedly the season with which I have the more problem. Why ? Can I come back later to explain ?

 

[Purplemess317]

lol of course you can .... But season 7 for me was def the worst... For all the chararcters. Buffy had become this better than thou ass snob... Like shes the law and picks who she believes deserves forgiveness and who doesn't. .. Spike I couldn't stand to watch especially with buffy coddling him as if he was a helpless puppy.. Willow anya I could go on and on ... all of them had lost something they once had.

 

[Grace]

Season 7 definitely suffers from some poor execution, but I think the concepts it explores are really compelling, so I don't consider it the worst. This meta about Season 7 is really good: beer_good_foamy | Meta: Buffy, the Vampire Slayer vs Buffy The Vampire Slayer

 

[Priceless]

Although season 6 is my favourite, I love season 7. It has a depth of meaning that the other seasons do not have. It's the most philosophical season. It's got the running themes of instinct over knowledge, of seeing is not believing, of the end of the patriachy and being the chosen one. It's high concept and sometimes the execution isn't as flawless as it could be, but I think you have to look past that and see what's happening underneath.

I recently heard someone criticise the CGI in S7 and it occurred to me that they were right, a lot of the CGI is poor and I wondered if that was deliberate, to fit in with the theme of seeing is not always believing. The monsters have to look poorly designed because the characters are being asked to question what they are seeing? Just a thought

People have issues with the potentials, but I think they are meant to be both us the audience, being empowered by Buffy (and the show). They also function as a Greek Chorus commenting on the actions of the main players, so either way, a lack of individual characters doesn't bother me - I don't need or want to know them better.

Of course I love Spuffy in this season. Season 6 was about the coming together of the darkness and the light, of Buffy learning to accept herself. In S7 it's that acceptance that allows her to become the General she has to be, and it's why she can't let go of Spike, because that would be a step backwards in Buffy's character development. And as she says, she loves him

I like Buffy as the General, and have no problem with her distancing herself from the potentials or scoobies or anyone who threatens her leadership. A General doesn't know the name of everyone in their battalion, she doesn't care about them as individuals, she has to win a war and that's the mission.

The First could have been done better, but I find it easy to just go with it and imagine this is the war to end all wars. Chosen was a fantastic ending, it hits all the right notes, it is the culmination of everyone's story and goes out on a high.

 

[Antho]

I like Buffy as the General, and have no problem with her distancing herself from the potentials or scoobies or anyone who threatens her leadership. A General doesn't know the name of everyone in their battalion, she doesn't care about them as individuals, she has to win a war and that's the mission.

I guess we do not like the same thing in Buffy's character. What you describe there is not at all the Buffy I like

 

[GoSpuffy]

s6&S7 are my favourites followed by S4&5. I love how all of the characters evolved and grew over time. I felt more invested in the stories as they went on. So many shows start with a bang and then lose their way, perfect example............Heros. So many shows turn the characters into caricatures of themselves by harping on the same few personality traits over and over with no character growth. Hold any S7 Buffy character up to when they first joined the cast and you can see how much they've grown but at the same time it is believable. There are things I don't love about S7 *coughpotentialscough* but the good far out weighs the bad. And the ending being brought back to the beginning was amazing.

 

[thrasherpix]

If I ever lose my season 6 and 7 dvds, I won't be replacing them. But despite its many flaws, at least season 6 seems to care about the show and viewers (though I can quibble a lot here).

Season 7 (which at the time I felt would help repair the "damage" of season 6, but found it only made it so much worse) felt so incredibly lazy which was disrespectful to fans (though Spuffies loved the Spuffy they got which consoles them, and it's a classic romance--even faerie tale--formula with a new paint job so I can see how it works for those with a fondness for that formula) that I'm bordering on offended by how little they obvious cared since I wasn't paying (unlike the writers who can't understand, I actually had a tight budget) for such lackluster work (and I saw interviews to that effect on how tired they were of it and wanted to move on to other projects, one saying something along the lines that he'd have been happy to have a Lady in the Lake give Buffy a scythe if they could then just move on and get to the end). And season 7 is the ONLY season I actually disliked Buffy as a character.

After season 6 Buffy, I'd have still bought Angel the Series, but after season 7 I was so put off by the writing (who I assumed wrote the episodes for Angel as well) that it was many years before I gave Angel a chance, figuring it had gone to the same dump that season 7 Buffy had.

 

[Antho]

And season 7 is the ONLY season I actually disliked Buffy as a character.

I have the same problem, although I don't dislike her.
In the previous seasons I always understood Buffy's actions, I always agreed with her and I admired her. But in season 7, I do not recognize her, I question some of her decisions and it hurts to say that but I like her less.

 

[Purplemess317]

I have the same problem, although I don't dislike her.
In the previous seasons I always understood Buffy's actions, I always agreed with her and I admired her. But in season 7, I do not recognize her, I question some of her decisions and it hurts to say that but I like her less.

I agree with you both. I couldn't recognize the character by season 7. that was sort of my point. all of them had some how took a huge step back in character.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

What did she do that was so strange?

 

[Spanky]

I think S7 is better than S6 in all honestly. S7 certainly had better villains.

 

[Antho]

What did she do that as so strange?

Few examples :
- Remove the chip from Spike instead of repair it. When she had to make that choice, The First still had a hold on Spike. So I find this choice to be a questionnable one.
- Anya killed human, Buffy takes a sword to kill her, no matter what Xander thinks. But when Spike killed humans, she helps him !
- She said she would let Dawn die and Spike killed Wood..

 

[Priceless]

- Anya killed human, Buffy takes a sword to kill her, no matter what Xander thinks. But when Spike killed humans, she helps him !

Anya chose to kill humans. Spike was being controlled by The First, he did not have free will.

- Remove the chip from Spike instead of repair it. When she had to make that choice, The First still had a hold on Spike. So I find this choice to be a questionnable one.

This is very much in Buffy's character. She supports people and gives them a chance to be better. She did it with Willow, Faith, Angel, Xander, Riley, in fact pretty much everyone is forgivable for Buffy, under the right circumstance.

She said she would let Dawn die and Spike killed Wood..

No, she said that if it happened that way again, she would let Dawn die, just as she would let Wood die. Just as she would let anyone die to save the world. She killed Angel to save the world and she loved him more than anyone, remember.

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

- Remove the chip from Spike instead of repair it. When she had to make that choice, The First still had a hold on Spike. So I find this choice to be a questionnable one.

It is not as if the chip worked anyway while Spike was under trance. If Spike still had his chip, he wouldn't be able to fight the First's minions or the rampaging students.

- Anya killed human, Buffy takes a sword to kill her, no matter what Xander thinks. But when Spike killed humans, she helps him !

Anya has summoned her second man eating monster this season and has made no indication that she is going to stop. Buffy does eventually spare her, even though Anya did what she did completely of her own volition, unless you count peer pressure.

- She would let Dawn die and Spike killed Wood..

Well, she threatened to let Spike kill Wood if he ever tried to kill Spike again. I doubt she would actually let Spike kill a defenceless Wood. That being said, Spike would be justified in defending himself against anyone who wants to torture him to death. If Wood tried to trick Spike into another torture trap, I am pretty sure Spike would try to kill him, and I don't think I would blame him if he did.

And Dawn is great and all, but is she worth more than the entire world?
 

This is very much in Buffy's character. She supports people and gives them a chance to be better. She did it with Willow, Faith, Angel, Xander, Riley, in fact pretty much everyone is forgivable for Buffy, under the right circumstance.

And Anya, too, as soon as Anya promised to stop.

 

[Antho]

Anya chose to kill humans. Spike was being controlled by The First, he did not have free will.

That's fair, I understand. But I maintain that letting Spike do what he wants while at any time he could kill people, voluntarily or not, it's a dangerous choice.
I'm not asking her to kill him, I'm against it, but she's giving him too much freedom and she is unconscious for me.

This is very much in Buffy's character. She supports people and gives them a chance to be better. She did it with Willow, Faith, Angel, Xander, Riley, in fact pretty much everyone is forgivable for Buffy, under the right circumstance.

She forgives Spike, I forgive Spike too. I have no problem with that.

No, she said that if it happened that way again, she would let Dawn die, just as she would let Wood die. Just as she would let anyone die to save the world. She killed Angel to save the world and she loved him more than anyone, remember.

Well I despise the way she said things. And I think it's choosing the facility.

Anya has summoned her second man eating monster this season and has made no indication that she is going to stop

I still find that she thinks not too long before making her decision

 

[Purplemess317]

Well, she threatened to let Spike kill Wood if he ever tried to kill Spike again. I doubt she would actually let Spike kill a defenceless Wood. That being said, Spike would be justified in defending himself against anyone who wants to torture him to death. If Wood tried to trick Spike into another torture trap, I am pretty sure Spike would try to kill him, and I don't think I would blame him if he did.

And Dawn is great and all, but is she worth more than the entire world?

Dawn was worth the world in season 5 to buffy. what changed again buffy not herself in season 7. And spike had slaughtered hundreds of people. Woods mother was a slayer if anyone should of understood his vengeance it should have been buffy... watching buffy baby him all season was sicking.. I prefer evil spike anyday over this

 

[Priceless]

That's fair, I understand. But I maintain that letting Spike do what he wants while at any time he could kill people, voluntarily or not, it's a dangerous choice.
I'm not asking her to kill him, I'm against it, but she's giving him too much freedom and she is unconscious for me.

Yes I can understand this, perhaps it was a dangerous choice, but she was the Slayer and she went with her gut instincts. It's one of the themes of the season, go with instinct or with 'knowledge', but I understand why her decision might make some uncomfortable

Well I despise the way she said things. And I think it's choosing the facility.

There must have been a better way of saying this, and I can see why it might leave a bitter taste.

I still find that she thinks not too long before making her decision

Comes back to instinct. It really is one of the themes of the season. Do we trust our own judgement (especially as women) or do we listen to those around us, especially men who are telling us what to do and what is best.

Buffy forgave Angel, we know it is in her nature to be forgiving. In season 7 she even forgives Faith, and Buffy hates Faith

 

[Purplemess317]

I understood buffy and spikes relationship season 6 not a fan but I understood. But season 7 they were so far gone from the characters they had progressed into it was ridiculous..

 

[WillowFromBuffy]

I still find that she thinks not too long before making her decision

Anya summons a giant flesh eating worm. Then Buffy spends three weeks wondering what she will do if Anya ever did something similar again, at which points Anya exterminates an entire university fraternity with a heart eating spider that is subsequently set lose upon the world. When Buffy shows up, Xander is there trying to help her, but Anya slaps him across the room.

I'd say Buffy is more forgiving than Jesus.

She was in season 5 to buffy hence her not being herself

The fact that she made a different choice concerning a extremely complex moral conundrum does not mean that she is now a completely different person. Also, in S7 it is merely hypothetical. I'd say I'd kill Dawn, if only to get Giles to shut up.
 

In season 7 she even forgives Faith, and Buffy hates Faith

As I said: Buffy > Jesus