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Help Should I watch Angel

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#1
I don't know if I should watch Angel
Personally, I am not particularly interested in Angel himself, I am actually focusing on Cordy but when you talk about her you can't skip Angel and from what I have heard Angel the character was a HUGE part of her development, and that development happens entirely on Angel the series. I have read the plot of the show and I have to say I am not impressed, its not exiting and I am not curious about it at all, actually, I think its kinda silly.
 

Carrie Hopewell

Little girl lost in the woods
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Sineya
#2
Well, I'm sure someone here will tell you watch POTN's video:


Personally, I watched Angel's show because of Angel, so the video wouldn't have worked for me, I think, but it might work for you.

I have read the plot of the show and I have to say I am not impressed, its not exiting and I am not curious about it at all, actually, I think its kinda silly.
Buffy seems kind of silly to an outsider as well, so don't be too quick to judge Angel ;)

Angel is a more serious show, more focused on a message, with better character work, better arcs. I think Angel is just so much deeper than Buffy and so much more satisfying to watch. But that's just my opinion. Most people here prefer Buffy and you probably will too. However, most people here also like Angel, so maybe you should give it a try. Statistically speaking, chances are you will enjoy it :)
 
I
iambored123
Thanks for the help
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#3
I'm not going to say one way or another because everyone has different tastes (and I also saw it with 2 kids who loved it, and I think watching it with others who like or dislike something also makes a difference from seeing it alone). But what I will say is that when I was thinking of seeing it I gave it a chance but couldn't understand or appreciate much of what I was seeing as I just watched a couple of random episodes or so (and combined with how little I liked the last 2 seasons of Buffy I decided against getting it for years).

And then I got it because enough others wanted to see it and I found that the only way to watch it is to watch it in order. This is a serial, and to properly appreciate it you have to know what has happened before (previous seasons as well as previous episodes). That time I enjoyed it a lot.

POTN (Passion of the Nerd) is currently reviewing the series, though he's still early on in season 1 Angel (and season 4 Buffy) and his reviews probably won't come out as fast as you'd like. But if you want to spend awhile thinking about it then you might find it useful to subscribe to his channel.
 
I
iambored123
Thank you, I loved POTN, it's a great channel

Bluebird

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Black Thorn
#4
Angel tends to divide people, at least on Buffy Boards. The people who prefer it to Buffy are highly passionate about it, being the underdog and all. It's a different show while still being in the same universe, so it will just come down to personal taste. The show is a lot more serialised than Buffy and the focus and the themes drift away from the main character. I personally think it was better at exploring metaphorical ideas than Buffy was.
 

Spanky

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Black Thorn
#5
The show is a lot more serialised than Buffy and the focus and the themes drift away from the main character. I personally think it was better at exploring metaphorical ideas than Buffy was.
I think if Greenwalt did not leave as showrunner it would have easily surpassed Buffy. But the back end of S3, 4 & 5 are just so different than S1 & 2.
So you have two and a half seasons of one type of Angel show, and two and a half seasons of another Angel show.
 

Carrie Hopewell

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Sineya
#6
I think if Greenwalt did not leave as showrunner it would have easily surpassed Buffy. But the back end of S3, 4 & 5 are just so different than S1 & 2.
So you have two and a half seasons of one type of Angel show, and two and a half seasons of another Angel show.
I disagree. Tim Minear, for example, wrote tons of season 1 episodes and was largely responsible for the Darla arc (wrote Darla, Reunion, Reprise, Epiphany and others). Even with his contribution to season 3, that season was still awful imo. And Greenwalt was involved in all of season 3 I think? HE wrote Tomorrow which was the finale and a crappy episode.

I don't think Angel's quality is that determined by Greenwalt. Season 4 is about a million times better than season 3. Season 3 can be summed up by Quickening/Lullaby. Loyalty/Sleep Tight/Forgiving, A New World, Benediction, Tomorrow. Everything else is crap and of those episodes, Greenwalt only wrote Sleep Tight and Tomorrow which aren't even the best episodes. The later half of season 3 is the only half I can stand, because it doesn't contain as much dumb!Angel as the first half and actually contains some drama and character development.

Angel season 4 returns to the themes of Angel season 1 and 2: personal happiness vs. responsibility to the world, and forgiveness, redemption and fighting despite adversary circumstances. Season 3 is all about Angel being happy and boring love triangles that don't fit the tone of the show. The Angel team barely works any cases.

I think the only season that doesn't fit in Ats is season 5. That season is terrible overall. To me, Angel's character development ends in season 4. Season 5 is only worth it for Wesley, Illyria, Connor and Not Fade Away.

Also, imo, most seasons of Angel and Buffy are different from each other. I group the high school seasons in the group of seasons I love and are connected/similar. Season 4 is in another pile - different school, Buffy is happier, the gang's dynamic changes, no big arc. Season 5 is in yet another pile - very different from season 4, you can pretty much watch this season and skip season 4. Seasons 6 and 7 are the UPN years and have continuation - similar tone, focus of Spike and Spuffy, etc.

I think Angel easily surpasses Buffy since I only love Buffy seasons 1-3 and have a ton of issues with the rest of the seasons. But that's just me. Regardless, both Buffy and Angel change a lot every season so I don't think that's a criticism you can only make about Angel.
 
Spanky
Spanky
A lot of S3, according to interviews, was Greenwalt setting the stage for the story Whedon was wanting to tell, so while Greenwalt was involved, the overall arc of the season was a preamble to Whedon's story and not Greenwalt's per se.

brinkster130

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#7
If you're a Cordy fan, I think you'll enjoy seeing her character development in Angel. I'd def watch it...especially the first couple seasons.
 

Guy

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Black Thorn
#8
I don't know if I should watch Angel
Personally, I am not particularly interested in Angel himself, I am actually focusing on Cordy but when you talk about her you can't skip Angel and from what I have heard Angel the character was a HUGE part of her development, and that development happens entirely on Angel the series. I have read the plot of the show and I have to say I am not impressed, its not exiting and I am not curious about it at all, actually, I think its kinda silly.
Angel is one of my least favorite characters ever, and I'm still very happy that I watched 'Angel, the series'. :)

It's all about the supporting characters, really.


And as others have said, Buffy would have sounded completely ridiculous on paper too.


That said, it took a while before I started to really love 'Angel'. Kinda like it was with 'Buffy'. So give it time.

But if you simply can't stand season 1, then just skip to season 5. The show changes a lot in that season, and has a fresh start, and becomes a lot more Buffy-like (which makes sense, since Buffy ended the year before that season, which meant that Joss Whedon could focus all his attention on 'Angel'). It's the best season of the show by far, IMO, and you might be able to enjoy it even if you dislike the early seasons.
 
Mr. Pole said:
It was more to the point that Firefly got cancelled so Whedon went to Angel. Buffy stopped being a focus for Whedon- save OMWF- in S5.
I heard conflicting things about this issue...

A lot of people said that during season 4 of AtS, Joss was never around on the set of 'Angel', because he was constantly busy on season 7 of 'Buffy'.

But this is off-topic...
 
Spanky
Spanky
It was more to the point that Firefly got cancelled so Whedon went to Angel. Buffy stopped being a focus for Whedon- save OMWF- in S5.
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#9
But if you simply can't stand season 1, then just skip to season 5. The show changes a lot in that season, and has a fresh start, and becomes a lot more Buffy-like (which makes sense, since Buffy ended the year before that season, which meant that Joss Whedon could focus all his attention on 'Angel'). It's the best season of the show by far, IMO, and you might be able to enjoy it even if you dislike the early seasons.
Bad advice IMO. S5 AtS is nothing like S1-4. So asking someone to start with the most non-AtS Season is not a good idea. And the changes wasn't all Whedon (except the crappy characterization he gave Angel for example), a lot of it was network. Basically they wanted everything gone from AtS that made it AtS. It didn't get good in S5 until Greenwalt came back (latter half).

AtS isn't like Buffy IMO. You can't pull out a random episode to show someone to introduce them to the show. It's more arc-y than Buffy and non-season plot episodes are few and far between.
 

Guy

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Black Thorn
#11
Bad advice IMO. S5 AtS is nothing like S1-4. So asking someone to start with the most non-AtS Season is not a good idea. And the changes wasn't all Whedon (except the crappy characterization he gave Angel for example), a lot of it was network. Basically they wanted everything gone from AtS that made it AtS. It didn't get good in S5 until Greenwalt came back (latter half).
Of course starting with S5 isn't the ideal viewing experience, I agree. But I also think it's good as a last resort - you know, if someone just CAN'T STAND season 1. Season 5 is just very different, so it's possible that someone who hated the early seasons will still love season 5.

And I love both halves of season 5 :)

AtS isn't like Buffy IMO. You can't pull out a random episode to show someone to introduce them to the show. It's more arc-y than Buffy and non-season plot episodes are few and far between.
This is only true in season 4, I think. In any other season, AtS isn't more arc-y than Buffy. Hell, season 1 of AtS is probably the LEAST arc-y season of the entire Buffyverse.
 
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#12
I know Greenwalt directed TGIQ, but was he involved in the writing process also? I mean, if he had been, wouldn't he have written a full episode and shared writing credits in the finale, at the very least?
It's not about writing, it's about executive and creative power. There was no arc (largely requested by the network) until they sneakily put some into the latter part of S5 which you can bet was Greenwalt (because no sneaky arcs until he came back).

This is only true in season 4, I think. In any other season, AtS isn't more arc-y than Buffy. Hell, season 1 of AtS is probably the LEAST arc-y season of the entire Buffyverse.
S2-4 of Angel is basically one giant arc that branches out in several mini-arcs over the course of those Seasons. The only Seasons where you can view a random episode because there is no arc are 1 and 5.
 

Guy

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Black Thorn
#13
S2-4 of Angel is basically one giant arc that branches out in several mini-arcs over the course of those Seasons. The only Seasons where you can view a random episode because there is no arc are 1 and 5.

That's how the writers presented it in season 4 (the "Jasmine made it all happen" thing), but it's not really what the seasons feel like.

Season 2 is, first of all, its own thing, separate from whatever happens later. More accurately, it's TWO separate things. Season 2 has the Darla arc which ends in Epiphany, which is its own thing, and then it has the Pylea arc, which is its own thing. Saying that season 2 is part of the Jasmine arc is like saying that season 3 of Buffy is part of the Glory arc because of the "counting down from 730" thing. Not to mention the fact that season 2 has lots of standalone episodes that can be watched outside of their context, like 'Untouched', and 'Guise will be Guise', and 'The Shroud of Rahmon', and 'The Thin Dead Line', and 'Disharmony', etc.

Season 3 is more fitting to your description, but even that one still has its own Big Bad (Holtz) with its own plot, which is self-contained in that season. And of course, season 3 also has lots of standalone episodes that can be watched without any context, like 'Billy' and 'That Old Gang of Mine' and 'Couplet' and 'Double or Nothing' and 'Carpe Noctem' and 'Provider', etc...

So, saying that seasons 3 and 4 are one giant arc? Maybe (although the connections between those seasons aren't much bigger than the connections between seasons 2 & 3 of 'Buffy'). Saying that season 2 is part of that arc? Nope. And season 4 is still the ONLY season that's nothing but arc.
 
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#15
I'd say to watch season 1 and try the couple first episodes of season 2. If you don't like it then it might not be for you.
 

Grace

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#17
If you're in it for Cordy, you might want to try "Rm w/a Vu," which is the first episode that really focuses on her in Season 1, and see what you think.
 

Give Us A Kiss

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#18
Sure, Angel is a different character on there than he was on Buffy, same applies to Wesley.

You also get to see characters like Cordy and Faith get some significant character development (Faith had quite a bit of character development for someone who is only in 6 episodes).
 
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Black Thorn
#19
I don't know if I should watch Angel
Personally, I am not particularly interested in Angel himself, I am actually focusing on Cordy but when you talk about her you can't skip Angel and from what I have heard Angel the character was a HUGE part of her development, and that development happens entirely on Angel the series. I have read the plot of the show and I have to say I am not impressed, its not exiting and I am not curious about it at all, actually, I think its kinda silly.
If you enjoy good writing, fun characters, and compelling stories, you'll enjoy Angel. A lot. Its a bit dark, at times hilarious, and you will absolutely LOVE Cordelia during the first three and half seasons. Plus, Angel is pretty interesting here! If you didn't like him on Buffy, I'll bet you grow to adore him on this show.

Personally, I prefer Angel over Buffy...dark humour is my thing. Plus, there's so many surprises and laugh-out-loud moments! Wesley/Angel/Cordy are like the Comedic Trio, Doyle is appealing, Gunn has some funny moments, and...Fred! Sweet, crazy, neurotic Fred.

I urge you to give Angel a try. :)
 
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Black Thorn
#20
Oops! I forgot to mention Lornie Toons, Harmony, Lindsay, Lilah, Skip, Sahjian...ah, so much hilarity here. And puppets! ;)
 
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