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So... does anyone have anything to say about Xander and Dawn having a baby?

thrasherpix

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For what it's worth, a relative of mine died not too long ago (approaching a year) in his 80s. He was married to his 2nd wife (which is what made him kin to us) for about 40 years, and he children the same age as her from a previous marriage, and I believe she had been one of the childhood friends of one of his kids. I was never that close to either of them (though I have interacted with both) but I never got pervy vibes from him (and I got sensitive to that, especially after time as a runaway where pervs flocked to kids like flies on cow manure) and she was definitely a grown woman with him (and he remained married to her until his death).

She did complain of him, but more for being dull, while other relatives of mine were bitter that he chose her when she didn't even appreciate what a good man he was for providing for her, showing romantic gestures (like flowers) even after married, going out of his way to help the family he married into, and putting up with the woman he married who came to feel entitled to all that. It sounds as if she cheated on him for awhile as well, while there wasn't even a rumor of him cheating on her. He seemed to genuinely love and respect her.

I only heard of one time where he told his wife to shut up, and it was after his wife wouldn't stop trash talk about another relative (which she loved to do). That he was so firm with her that one time was shocking to us as he was so mild-mannered...and my family appreciated that he did that as everyone was tired of hearing her bitch & moan about a relative she didn't like (she did worse than that as well), and I wonder if he wasn't actually trying to protect her since she was ticking off the rest of her extended family with her trash talk (a little is fine, but not relentless and never-ending).

I really don't know why they married, but I do know it happened after she was an adult, and it sounds as if she went after him (like many women in my family, she's assertive and bold, whereas he's a guy you have to pull out of his shell to get him to open up--not shy, but likes to keep his peace). No one saw it unusual because it was fairly common for older men who lost a wife to marry someone younger.

And maybe that's why the age difference between Xander and Dawn doesn't seem that much (combined that I think of both of them as older than in the TV show).


I also don't know how Xander and Dawn ended up becoming a couple as I don't keep up with the comics, but I can imagine that when you're in life and death situations a lot with high stakes, feelings can change and grow quite easily.

Heh, I just remembered the Wizards of Waverly Place movie where Alex and her brother Justin are put into dangerous situations and have to save each other while trying to save the very existence of their family...had they not been siblings then the movie formula would've demanded them kissing all over the place, and even as it was, they got shipped HARD. And it was such that Disney executives ordered the writers to give both of the siblings love interests of their own because of how prevalent "Jalex" shipping had become. And I'm sure that comedy for kids was far lighter than the dangers faced by Xander and Dawn.
 

DeadlyDuo

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You're posting a S5 Dawn image with a S7 Xander image. The image next to Xander should be of Dawn in S7 where she started to look like a woman. The age difference between MT and NB is huge, however, the age difference between Dawn and Xander isn't.
The Xander pic said it was from Season 5 but ok. Here's the season 5 promo pics.

 
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DeadlyDuo

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The age difference between MT and NB is huge, however, the age difference between Dawn and Xander isn't.
I don't think it has anything to do with the actors ages. (JM is older than SMG, AH, AB, FD, EC, etc but Spike gets shipped with all the scooby women. He was older than MM by quite a way but Harmony and Spike look like a normal couple). On a side note, in Once Upon a Time, RumBelle is a massive ship in the fandom despite the huge age difference between Robert Carlyle and Emilie de Ravin.

The point is that if you introduce a character as a child, the audience is going to remember that character as a child,. Even when said character ages up, if that character is then paired with an existing adult character, the audience is only going to think of the kid version of the character. Had Xander been a brand new character Dawn paired up with, there wouldn't be any issue because she's an adult, however because Xander was an adult when Dawn was a child, all people would see is underage Dawn and Adult Xander. That's not saying Xander's a perv, just that during the series, Dawn and Xander wouldn't exactly be high on the shipping list.

It's similar to how people dislike a Buffy/Giles ship. It's nothing to do wit the actors' ages but more to do with the character dynamics. Xander was very big brother like towards Dawn during the series, so the idea that they've had a baby together feels weird.

Does that make sense?
 

sosa lola

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Does that make sense?
It does. I do agree that it's weird especially when S7 was about Buffy and Xander being Dawn's parents.

I guess since Xander isn't technically Dawn's brother, there's nothing wrong with the pairing. I wish S8 spent time showing us how Xander and Dawn developed because it'll be interesting seeing how they will get past the old brother/sister feels. I think that Dawn was the one who initiated it and it was Xander who had doubts.
 

DeepBlueJoy

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So... does anyone have anything to say about Xander and Dawn having a baby?
I don't think Anya would like this....
I have shipped them. I think they make a decent couple. I think Dawn is assertive enough to get past his inertia... (Xander tends to go with the flow where women are concerned). We know he finds her hot from series canon. So, why not?

I think Anya would approve of Xander having lots of orgasms... if she were dead and couldn't give them to him herself. She might even try to get him a woman from the afterlife. She is the type to try to fix his life if she could!
 

DeepBlueJoy

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Even by the end of the series, she was nearly an adult and the age difference isn't that great. As long as she is adult when they start dating, there is no issue. By this logic any couple with more than three or four years is permanently verboten. We see NO indication of him putting the moves on inderage Dawn. He was clearly uncomfortable with finding her attractive in season 7 and she wasn't a little kid then. He recognizes proper limits.

View attachment 11117View attachment 11118

Talk about out kicking your coverage.
you do realize those are actors, not the characters they played. Xander is not that much older than Dawn. Michelle is over a decade younger than Nick. 15 years, actually.
 
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DeadlyDuo

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Even by the end of the series, she was nearly an adult and the age difference isn't that great. As long as she is adult when they start dating, there is no issue. By this logic any couple with more than three or four years is permanently verboten. We see NO indication of him putting the moves on inderage Dawn. He was clearly uncomfortable with finding her attractive in season 7 and she wasn't a little kid then. He recognizes proper limits.
It's not an issue of Dawn and Xander's ages and her being an adult when they start dating. It's about how Dawn was introduced as a whiny kid (who couldn't eat ice cream properly) in a season where Xander was already an adult. Therefore, given the dynamic they had (older brother/younger sister), most people remember Dawn as a whiny Season 5/6 teenager which makes the idea of Dawn and Xander having a baby together weird.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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YMMV, but I don't see any moral issues with it. They are not related. She's an adult acting of her own free will. Also, I don't really see people who face death regularly worrying too much about "half plus seven" rules.
 

DeepBlueJoy

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It's not an issue of Dawn and Xander's ages and her being an adult when they start dating. It's about how Dawn was introduced as a whiny kid (who couldn't eat ice cream properly) in a season where Xander was already an adult. Therefore, given the dynamic they had (older brother/younger sister), most people remember Dawn as a whiny Season 5/6 teenager which makes the idea of Dawn and Xander having a baby together weird.
Everyone grows up. Even whiny children. Then people who remember them as children wake up one day and see that they have something to offer. Something to say. And human memory is short. They see the adult before them, potent or voluptuous. The present is vivid. Unless that child is your own or your sibling, there is no reason to get tied up in niceties. Xander and Dawn would work. They fight for the same things, love the same things.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Everyone grows up. Even whiny children. Then people who remember them as children wake up one day and see that they have something to offer. Something to say. And human memory is short. They see the adult before them, potent or voluptuous. The present is vivid. Unless that child is your own or your sibling, there is no reason to get tied up in niceties. Xander and Dawn would work. They fight for the same things, love the same things.
The point isn't about Xander remembering Dawn as a whiny kid, it's about the AUDIENCE remembering Dawn as a whiny kid. For anyone who doesn't read the comics, all they have is Season 5-7 Dawn (with Season 5/6 Dawn being the one that sticks in the mind), TV Dawn is not someone who would be high on the shipping list.
 
DeepBlueJoy
DeepBlueJoy
yeah, well, we need to let go of the image stuck on the screen. The actress (and character) is mid thirties now. Richie Cunningham is not real and even if he was, he'd be a grandpa now! Meanwhile, some people only remember Ron Howard, director.

AndrewCrossett

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In the comics Xander is about 30 and Dawn is about 24. That falls within the rule that as an adult you're not a creeper if your partner is half your age + 7 years. (Unless you're rich and/or famous in which case anyone over 18 is fair game.)

I don't mind them as a couple or them having a baby, so long as little Joyce isn't just used as a Baby in Distress needing to be rescued/protected from the Big Bads. I'm just glad it's not Buffy's baby.

It's interesting to confirm that Dawn can have children and is therefore 100% human. I just wonder if Joyce has inherited any of her mother's powers.
 

Cangel1987

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That's a weird imagination. Sorry, I don't have anything against Xander or Dawn as characters, or friends. Like big brother and little sister and that these two are suddenly together and have a child is really strange. And none of what I ever expected. That definitely has nothing to do with the age difference. Because the age difference isn't that big.
 

nightshade

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That's a weird imagination. Sorry, I don't have anything against Xander or Dawn as characters, or friends. Like big brother and little sister and that these two are suddenly together and have a child is really strange.
However it's not sudden, Xander was 22? When the show ended and is 30 now, so 8 years is a long time for relationships to change.
 

Cangel1987

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Maybe not sudden. I don't know very much of the comics since I am not really the comic type. That's why I stopped reading it in the middle of season 8 and accept Buffy as well as Angels end we got on TV.

Maybe not sudden. I don't know very much of the comics since I am not really the comic type. That's why I stopped reading it in the middle of season 8 and accept Buffy as well as Angels end we got on TV.
I miss both series and I would love to know what happened to our favorites :) But if I being honest I wouldn't have a clue how to read all comics - it's a bit confusing.
 
nightshade
nightshade
Yeah me too, I'm trying to get into them though, but too many characters missing

nightshade

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Yeah, I think it's hard to keep up with, unless you read them from the start. I've dipped in and out of them, and don't really follow it either. I'm just glad at least Xander is still in it.
 

Cangel1987

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Xander was from the start one of my favorite. Where of them is still on board? Is Cordy back too?
 

sosa lola

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@r2dh2

Once again: wait... WHAT? :-O I need to read the comics.
If you don't mind spoilers ....

Buffy has been busy leading a large army of Slayers is a castle in Scotland. Her only best friend at the time was Xander - her second in command. She hasn't had sex in a couple of years (S7 and gap year between S7 and S8) and starts having dreams about kissing Xander. She and Xander get extremely close and very later in the story, she gets the courage to tell Xander about her feelings but finds him kissing Dawn. Buffy keeps her feelings to herself until one point later, she tells Xander how she feels, but Xander doesn't believe her, and then gets upset that she'd tell him this knowing that he's involved with Dawn. He tells her that he's falling in love with Dawn and that he can't be with Buffy.
 
r2dh2
r2dh2
O M G! :-O

katmobile

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I see how my wording is misleading but I was not referring to it being creepy that she is so much younger than him... I just think their pairing is so weird...

And I feel so bad for Anya, wherever she is now (I hope in heaven)... I thought it was pretty much established that Anya was supposed to be xander's one and only like how tara is Willow's.
You see I don't believe in OTPism that sets me on collasion course with a lot of shippers.
 
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