Spike on Angel Season 5 Was it worth it or a waste of time ?

Definitely worthwhile.
Whilst Spike feels slightly shoe-horned into the plot at some points (especially for the. first 7 episodes or so) he really comes into his own as the season progresses.
I just think the AtS writers had a better grasp of his character: they weren't afraid to make him the butt of the occasional joke (like back in BtVS S4), had fun deconstructing his character a bit (his entitlement towards women, the coat, his petty rivalry with Angel, etc) and knew how to depict the guy growing up and getting a deeper perspective about the world now he had a soul and was away from Buffy.
They really nailed his strengths as well; his passion, his insight, his want to be in the thick of a good fight and his perseverance.
 
Spike is my favorite character, so of course I'm glad he came back, but I think his characterization was a little off. My main problem is that Spike definitely would have gone to find Buffy and the only reason he didn't is because JM was on Angel. He was also played for comedy a little too much without enough balance. Spike wasn't overall stupid so the fact that they played that up too often was annoying.

But I think the biggest real issue I have is that his and Angel's relationship didn't evolve that much. Yes, they had arguments, and yes, they start to have some meaningful discussion, but i feel like these talks never moved their relationship forward. I'm not saying they had to be best friends or even like each other, but there simply wasn't enough evolution. Angel still thinks of Spike as lesser and doesn't really think of him as a hero (we see this continue in the comics). They were still all gruff and emotionally repressed at the end, same as they started. I just wish there had been more change/exploration if the writers were going to bring up these issues in the first place.

I do like Spike in this season overall. There were so many great moments that showed the depth of Spike: The fight scene in Destiny was perfect and so was the wee little puppet man scene, as well as the Caveman vs. Astronaut fight (cavemen would win, btw). I also love that Spike performed his poem at an open mic and people liked it.

This is minor, but did Spike's accent seem different to anyone else this season? I can hear a distinctive change.....
 
TriBel
TriBel
Yup...it's terrible in places.
I think it was worth it. On Buffy I preferred Spike upto S4 or S5 when he was allowed to do things that didnt always revolve around Buffy, so it was refreshing to see him interact with other characters and have different motivations.

And he fits in well with the team without ever dominating proceedings like he sometimes did in later Buffy

I loved his scenes with Angel. They have good chemistry and so much history and I would like to have seen their relationship explored even more
And his friendship with Fred was really sweet

Even though he was completely different to her he also filled a Cordy shaped hole in S5 as a character who could be funny, brutally honest, sometimes act stupid but also be really insightful about other characters
 
Btvs fan said:
I just wondered how people feel about bringing Spike back from the dead to be on Angel. Did people like or dislike it and was it worth it or fundamentally just a waste of time ??
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Well, I'll preface this by saying that I love Spike, so the more the better in my opinion.

Spike and Angel have such an interesting and entertaining dynamic, and I think bringing Spike in was a good idea.
 
This is my least favorite Angel season.

So I cannot say anything good about this season until Illyria arrived.Spike does not fit with team but at least here He is better than BtVs S7.
 
tripdastati0n said:
Does everything have to be a competition and a comparison... I like Spike on Buffy and Angel and yes Cordelia should have been in season 5
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Oh Thank YOU so much!! I love Buffy. I love Spike. I love Angel and I love Cordelia too. I do have my favorite combos, but the truth is that they are 4 excellent characters and I don't have to hate any one of them to love the the 'other'. I don't frankly see why there needs to be 'othering'. Buffy grew stronger because of BOTH her vampires. They gave her different things (and cost her and challenged her as well). Cordelia IMO is a better character on Angel and the ONLY thing about her arc that I hate is when they bent it into a pretzel to put her into a nasty combo with Connor (which makes me want to vomit and bleach my brain just thinking about it).

We have a rich, rich character universe in Buffy. Even the villains have major mileage! There are only a couple characters in the entire two series that I think could have been skipped without losing anything... Pat the lady with the mask, Kennedy the spoiled, mean, ungrateful, sex predator/widow-bully and maybe Andrew. Andrew annoyed me a LOT, but he was funny and weird, and the world needs to celebrate its funny and weird. I know a lot of people who have a little Andrew. 🙂

But... I love the buffyverse. It's the best verse ever. Still.
 
K
katmobile
I like Andrew but apart from that - this is spot on.
Definitely worth it! I love Spike and I'm glad they brought him back.
I didn't like, when he became 'corporeal again', how he still lusted over Harmony, felt a bit pointless and threw all that character development out of the window, BUT that changed very quickly and I love how he grew. He also kinda provides the comic relief, with his banter with Angel and I really love his character in general
 
I honestly can't say waste of time however for me it certainly wasn't worth it in the slightest.

I will no doubt be the lone wolf in this but he lessen my enjoyment of the last series which is why as mad and crazy as it may be given what they did to certain characters with their arcs, I will always prefer s4 over so. Although this is also to do with my emotional connection to Connor which a lot don't have.

I just can't get behind the way the Angel and Spike 'relationship' played out for the duration of that final series especially regarding the way they were in some kind of competition because of their own relationship with Buffy. I found it neither cute or funny.

Plus I loved the AI team as they were and just felt Spike was an unnecessary addition (regardless of the network thinking otherwise 🙄).

Most of my favourite moments from s5 aren't with Spike there and there's only one Spike moment that gives me pure joy and it's when Puppet Angel is beating Spike to a pulp. It IS one of my go to scenes!

I know many love the Angel and Spike connection but I find the complexity of the Angel and Wesley's relationship much more compelling and believable to watch. And feel they have a genuine care for one another despite the situation that happened with Connor.

So yeah for me..Totally. Not. Worth. It.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
You make some fair points
100 percent worth it. I LOVED Spike on Angel season 5. He gives it such a boost in every way. I'm going to start season 5 tomorrow and I cannot wait to see Spike and Angel together.

Really after the misery of season 4 we needed someone who would bring the comedy back to it which Spike did, and yes like others here his friendship with Fred is a definite highlight. To me though that friendship rescued Fred. I didn't like her much in season 3. I felt they shilled for her too much, whilst in season 4, barring her getting revenge on that guy (which wasn't really explored that much.) I think she was just kind of there.

Her and Spike however worked so brilliantly because unlike in s3 where Gunn and Lorne would just gush over her, this showed why she was so great. Her caring and understanding nature led her to help Spike when the others were doubting him. Also Pavayne was such a fantastic villain for them to face against together. Simon Templeman is the man!

I much, much, much preferred Spike in S5 of Angel to the last three seasons of Buffy. I'm just sorry we didn't get more of him with team Angel.

There is an interview with Vincent Karthesier where he says the same thing LOL. People gave him heat for this interview, but I think he came off well in it. People were saying that "oh he was being ungrateful" but was just being honest. He said that he disliked playing Connor because they refused to develop him and just had him be angry at everyone all the time and that ultimately he failed to breath new life into the show the way that James Marsters did as Spike the following year.

Vincent Kartheiser Loves Mad Men, Hates Angel, And Is Wistful About Heroes

I think though had the season 5 Connor come back for a bigger role in s6 then he could have been a popular character as I and it would seem most people loved the s5 Connor. Ironically him and Spike could have been quite fun together.
 
CHK DeWilSon said:
I honestly can't say waste of time however for me it certainly wasn't worth it in the slightest.

I will no doubt be the lone wolf in this but he lessen my enjoyment of the last series which is why as mad and crazy as it may be given what they did to certain characters with their arcs, I will always prefer s4 over so. Although this is also to do with my emotional connection to Connor which a lot don't have.

I just can't get behind the way the Angel and Spike 'relationship' played out for the duration of that final series especially regarding the way they were in some kind of competition because of their own relationship with Buffy. I found it neither cute or funny.

Plus I loved the AI team as they were and just felt Spike was an unnecessary addition (regardless of the network thinking otherwise 🙄).

Most of my favourite moments from s5 aren't with Spike there and there's only one Spike moment that gives me pure joy and it's when Puppet Angel is beating Spike to a pulp. It IS one of my go to scenes!

I know many love the Angel and Spike connection but I find the complexity of the Angel and Wesley's relationship much more compelling and believable to watch. And feel they have a genuine care for one another despite the situation that happened with Connor.

So yeah for me..Totally. Not. Worth. It.
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Well that's sad for you but you are at the end of the day one person.
 
thetopher
thetopher
ffs they even say that this in their post 'lone wolf'.
Worth it. Slightly biased as a Spike fan I'm sure, but he brought something extra to the show.

That said, really is a shame we also didn't have Cordelia on board too - given that Spike and Cordy didn't get to interact all that much, and on BTVS he was considered the Cordy replacement, the barbs between them would've been entertaining.

Nevertheless, we got the 'old married couple' dynamic between Angel and Spike. Lines that will forever send me into fits of laughter, because they worked so well together.

James had chemistry with everyone really. He and Fred were adorable together too.

Also a shame we didn't get a sixth season to watch all of them get into a groove and get some more stories.
 
AnthonyCordova
AnthonyCordova
If I could get 3 wishes id consider spending 1 on getting Angel S6
Both, perhaps, but I generally lean more towards 'worth it'.

Spike's presence helped the writers get a new angle on Angel's purpose (or lack of it) at Wolfram & Hart. As the outsider he's the only one who doesn't get caught up in their machinations or tempted, and gives a foreshadowing of how it will corrupt the Fang Gang. He also gave Illyria a taste for fighting on the side of good rather than merely indulging and observing the grieving Wesley.

Not terribly sure the 'ghost' plot added a massive amount that couldn't have been retweaked - I actually think the vastly inferior Torchwood got more mileage from taking material pleasures away from the Owen character, perhaps the nearest that show had to a 'Spike'.
 
Mott1 said:
Both, perhaps, but I generally lean more towards 'worth it'.

Spike's presence helped the writers get a new angle on Angel's purpose (or lack of it) at Wolfram & Hart. As the outsider he's the only one who doesn't get caught up in their machinations or tempted, and gives a foreshadowing of how it will corrupt the Fang Gang. He also gave Illyria a taste for fighting on the side of good rather than merely indulging and observing the grieving Wesley.

Not terribly sure the 'ghost' plot added a massive amount that couldn't have been retweaked - I actually think the vastly inferior Torchwood got more mileage from taking material pleasures away from the Owen character, perhaps the nearest that show had to a 'Spike'.
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Which is kind of ironic, of course, because Marsters briefly turned up in it himself as a poor mans Spike!
 
I'm torn. I really do love the character of Spike but I do think the writers could have handled his inclusion better. I feel as though his presence took quite a bit of screen time away from the ensemble because the show decided to lean so heavily on his dynamic with Angel. I adore the ensemble so thought this was a shame. I also wish they had explored how he interacted with members of the team aside from Angel and Fred. He was in the show for an entire season but I still wouldn't be able to tell you how he acted around Gunn, Wesley or Lorne. I think a scene with him and Wesley having a passionate debate over English football would have been very cute. Overall I enjoyed his character in the season but there were definitely some things that I would have done differently if I had been in the writers' shoes
 
I did like Spikes reaction to being stood in the table when he first appeared in Angel and had the table been able to speak as Spike spoke I wonder what it would have said.

Now try saying, "to speak as Spike spoke," three times while drinking a cup of tea.
 
By the way, whoever said (in this thread or it might have been another) that Spike's accent was a little off - I agree.

Somewhere in the world, ASH was probably swearing at him. 😂
 
I think he was well used in the wacky neighbor Spike role, but was it anywhere near as good as Season 2 Spike? Or Harsh Light of Day Spike? No, we don't really need two vampires with a Soul, and never did. But, we can't get that Spike again. And besides, it's not like being a refugee from Buffy was a disqualification for anyone else on this show.
 
AtS S5 Spike is definitely my favorite Spike, so I'm very glad he was in the season, especially since I didn't really like Spike during the last couple season of BtVS, and this probably redeemed the character for me. I think he got a really good arc on Angel and I adore his dynamic with all of the characters, particularly Angel and Fred
 
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