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Spikes soul

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
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50
I don't doubt that they may have meant for it to be that Spike was meaning he was going to get his soul when he went on that quest but they tried to be too clever with their interpretation and left themselves wide open for others to question their thought process and what played out on screen.

Spike can't be told 'You want to return to your former self, when his former self has/had NEVER been a vampire with a soul before so how could they possible make him that on the end of his quest. They would actually have had to made him a souled human again but of course that was never going to happen because he would not have been as useful for the final battle as a human being.

Make it make ABSOLUTE sense so no one can question the process or the end result.
I believe they shot themselves in the foot with this situation for Spike. Not about him actually getting a soul for Buffy (which I didn't actually agree with in the first place), but complicating it by trying to throw people off of the real reason for Spike wanting to win his quest. I understand they wanted the shock factor when it would be discovered what was happening to Spike at the end of the season finale but that even to this day, that many still question all that occurred and truly believe differently, shows they fail somewhat on what they wanted to achieve.

If they just HADN'T put in THAT line so even when Spike had won, they could have just said 'your request will be granted'. Still could have had the mystery of what had he asked for without there being the slightest perception or any doubt of what was happening to him because of what had been said before.


And then to hear that JM would have played that screen differently if he had really understood what was truly happening to Spike hows that even up to the point that it was revealed he was getting a soul, the way it was presented on screen felt it was a going to be different outcome.
So it kind feels like they mislead JM just because they thought they would blindside their viewers in assuming that they would be convince by what they were being shown.

And that Spike on his quest, rode off on a motorbike?! Isn't he a vampire that still can be harmed by the sun....
You're right they seem to be addicted to aren't we clever shock twists and misleads but you're right they just made it easily for people either intentionally or not to misinterpret it. They could have written the scene much more ambiguously and let James in on it. You've got a good actor trust them.
 

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,267
Age
55
I don't doubt that they may have meant for it to be that Spike was meaning he was going to get his soul when he went on that quest but they tried to be too clever with their interpretation and left themselves wide open for others to question their thought process and what played out on screen.

Spike can't be told 'You want to return to your former self, when his former self has/had NEVER been a vampire with a soul before so how could they possible make him that on the end of his quest. They would actually have had to made him a souled human again but of course that was never going to happen because he would not have been as useful for the final battle as a human being.

Make it make ABSOLUTE sense so no one can question the process or the end result.
I believe they shot themselves in the foot with this situation for Spike. Not about him actually getting a soul for Buffy (which I didn't actually agree with in the first place), but complicating it by trying to throw people off of the real reason for Spike wanting to win his quest. I understand they wanted the shock factor when it would be discovered what was happening to Spike at the end of the season finale but that even to this day, that many still question all that occurred and truly believe differently, shows they fail somewhat on what they wanted to achieve.

If they just HADN'T put in THAT line so even when Spike had won, they could have just said 'your request will be granted'. Still could have had the mystery of what had he asked for without there being the slightest perception or any doubt of what was happening to him because of what had been said before.


And then to hear that JM would have played that screen differently if he had really understood what was truly happening to Spike hows that even up to the point that it was revealed he was getting a soul, the way it was presented on screen felt it was a going to be different outcome.
So it kind feels like they mislead JM just because they thought they would blindside their viewers in assuming that they would be convince by what they were being shown.

And that Spike on his quest, rode off on a motorbike?! Isn't he a vampire that still can be harmed by the sun....
Yes always amazed me how Spike got to Africa and back? Spike got to Africa and went to the demon in the same time Willow went Dark and Buffy ended up in a hole approx.1 / 2 days
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
9,371
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Location
Toodyay
Black Thorn
When Spike left Sunnydale he did so on a motorbike that I thought was a bit of a ratty old bit of crap, maybe it was reasonably new so he could sell it and had enough for a return trip to Africa in the hold of a cargo ship. If you want to know had he did so in the same time that Willow went Dark guess you'd best ask God (Joss).
 

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,267
Age
55
You're right they seem to be addicted to aren't we clever shock twists and misleads but you're right they just made it easily for people either intentionally or not to misinterpret it. They could have written the scene much more ambiguously and let James in on it. You've got a good actor trust them.
Not only that Kat they mislead the cast, we know JM was not happy about wearing a sock, about being shown smoking so much and why he had he shirt off so often but can you really see Sarah signing knowing Buffy would be shown having S&M sex, oral sex and anal sex when nothing like it had gone before in any relation ships ( short Buffy bot apart ) in any season, to this day the only one off time me we see Sarah doing anything like this is in the film Harvard Man what has a 18 certification, In a series such as Buffy actors sign on what has gone before as scripts are written while filming is in progress , they have to trust their employers , I believe S6 broke that trust, hence Whedon insuring Sarah a return to the original theme of Buffy in S7 but by then Sarah had decided enough was enough
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,698
Age
50
Not only that Kat they mislead the cast, we know JM was not happy about wearing a sock, about being shown smoking so much and why he had he shirt off so often but can you really see Sarah signing knowing Buffy would be shown having S&M sex, oral sex and anal sex when nothing like it had gone before in any relation ships ( short Buffy bot apart ) in any season, to this day the only one off time me we see Sarah doing anything like this is in the film Harvard Man what has a 18 certification, In a series such as Buffy actors sign on what has gone before as scripts are written while filming is in progress , they have to trust their employers , I believe S6 broke that trust, hence Whedon insuring Sarah a return to the original theme of Buffy in S7 but by then Sarah had decided enough was enough
Maybe but I think it's a pitfall of tv in general although Sarah was savy enough to get an anti nudity clause in her contract from the start which is why even though what you're saying maybe right she was ever actually that unclothed. Good for her.

I think some of it is the evolving nature of tv that not only are the actors not 100 per cent on what they may be required to do but the writers aren't sure what it's going to become either exactly. Some stuff is worked out in advance but not all of it. So the mislead may not have been intentional right from the start. If you are interested there is quite an interesting article out there called the Pitfalls of Televison which whilst I don't agree with everything it says does raise some interesting points.
 

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,267
Age
55
Maybe but I think it's a pitfall of tv in general although Sarah was savy enough to get an anti nudity clause in her contract from the start which is why even though what you're saying maybe right she was ever actually that unclothed. Good for her.

I think some of it is the evolving nature of tv that not only are the actors not 100 per cent on what they may be required to do but the writers aren't sure what it's going to become either exactly. Some stuff is worked out in advance but not all of it. So the mislead may not have been intentional right from the start. If you are interested there is quite an interesting article out there called the Pitfalls of Televison which whilst I don't agree with everything it says does raise some interesting points.
I think in Buffy's case it was just ego's, because they could they did and Whedon and Noxon went to far , Basically Buffy was aimed at a adolescents and Sarah in particular took her role as Buffy as being a role Model ( still does ) very seriously, things like she would not even be photo with a glass of wine in her hand, then to have a show which you had starred in for 5 previous seasons to suddenly show her character having rough S&M sex with things like unzipping Spike and placing him ( never seen that before or since on TV ) I think that's why JM was upset about things like the amount of Smoking he was shown doing, again not being a good role model. I think most was down to Noxon , I truly believe Whedon had a much smaller input than before, he had issues with Sarah ( he believed Sarah did not give him enough credit ) and I think he use the show against her, but I think also he allowed Noxon to much of the rein.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,698
Age
50
I think in Buffy's case it was just ego's, because they could they did and Whedon and Noxon went to far , Basically Buffy was aimed at a adolescents and Sarah in particular took her role as Buffy as being a role Model ( still does ) very seriously, things like she would not even be photo with a glass of wine in her hand, then to have a show which you had starred in for 5 previous seasons to suddenly show her character having rough S&M sex with things like unzipping Spike and placing him ( never seen that before or since on TV ) I think that's why JM was upset about things like the amount of Smoking he was shown doing, again not being a good role model. I think most was down to Noxon , I truly believe Whedon had a much smaller input than before, he had issues with Sarah ( he believed Sarah did not give him enough credit ) and I think he use the show against her, but I think also he allowed Noxon to much of the rein.
I don't think that is actually the case but I can't prove that any more than you can. This might be a agree to disagree conversation but thank you for engaging civilally.
 
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