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Sprusilla love

DeadlyDuo

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Sprusilla are great. The best ship in the Buffyverse IMO. Such a shame they weren't allowed to stay together, especially as they were the only big bads who actually achieved their master plan.
 

white avenger

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I've always thought that the fact that Spike stayed loyal, protective, and supportive of Dru, no matter how unfaithful she was to him, or how downright looney she was, said a whole lot more for his character as a man than any amount of murder and chaos he might have been responsible for as a monster. I have mixed feelings about Dru, however. Everyone talks about how mutually destructive Spuffy was for the few months in Season 6, but no one ever points out how abusive Sprucilla was for decades.

Other than that, I suppose the general relationship was kinda sweet, in a weird way. They were the Buffy equivalent of the Addams Family with an element of horror and violence thrown in for spice.

And Angel, of course, was Lurch.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I've always thought that the fact that Spike stayed loyal, protective, and supportive of Dru, no matter how unfaithful she was to him, or how downright looney she was, said a whole lot more for his character as a man than any amount of murder and chaos he might have been responsible for as a monster.
For me, Sprusilla show that vampires are capable of love, albeit in their own way. The show tries to push "you can't love without a soul" by having Buffy say it, yet both Drusilla and Spike have practically turned round and gone "actually yes we can". It might not necessarily be 100% human definition of love but it is love nonetheless.

I have mixed feelings about Dru, however. Everyone talks about how mutually destructive Spuffy was for the few months in Season 6, but no one ever points out how abusive Sprucilla was for decades.
How do you consider Sprusilla "abusive"?

If you're talking about Angelus and Dru sleeping together, then I don't think that situation is quite as cut and dry as "Dru is unfaithful and cheating on Spike with Angelus". I think there is an issue there that was never fully explored, mainly that Angelus trained Dru to respond to him that way. Note how Spike never blames Dru for that. It's not because he's blind to her faults as he calls her out on the Chaos Demon but I think he's aware that Angelus has power over Dru.

Even though Buffy calls Dru "a big ho", again the audience is supposed to take Buffy's word as truth, aside from Angelus and the Immortal (though there is a suggestion that the Immortal may emit a pheromone that works a little like a love spell making women fall for him since "Buffy" was supposedly dating him in TGIQ), Dru is actually pretty faithful to Spike. She NEVER ditches him in Season 2, she's still sleeping with Spike and is affectionate with him even though Angelus is on the scene. Also as the alpha vampire, it's very likely that what Angelus says goes, hence why he was able to send a vampire to deliver a message to Buffy in broad daylight despite the vampire ending up dead afterwards, Dru might enjoy being the centre of attention but she is basically undermining Angelus' authority by maintaining a pubic romantic relationship with Spike.

Also worth bearing in mind is how differently Dru reacts to both Angelus and Angel. She was torturing Angel for what he did to her family, yet rolls over and lets Angelus do whatever he wants to her. Given that Angelus and Angel are portrayed as basically two separate personalities sharing a body, there is something about Angelus that makes Dru a puppet to his whims. Angel has no power over Dru yet Angelus does.

I think it would've been better if it was revealed that Angel still has the vampire urges to feed and kill, and that it is the soul holding him back and making him feel guilty about those urges. Losing the soul means he can indulge them freely. It could be argued this was kind of the case in flashbacks eg when Angel fed off the dying shop clerk, but the show couldn't have Buffy basically dating Angelus.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Drusilla is not Angel's puppet. She loves having her "two boys fightin' over [her] and all." In "What's My Line," Angel tells Spike that he used to take his time with the foreplay, as Drusilla likes being teased, and once he loses his soul, he is all over her, treating her like a princess and climbing her belly with his fingers. Of course, a big part of his motivation is to torture Spike, but she doesn't care. To her, to men are better than one, especially when one is in a wheelchair.

It is easy to infalize Drusilla, because she seems so frail and spends most of S2 in inaction, but she is really quite clever and extremely formidable.
 

FaithLehane16

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@WillowFromBuffy Drusilla is basically Angelus's victim. She felt like she had no choice, but adapt to the situation he provided for her, or be dead. She has Stockholm Syndrome. Drusilla has a mental illness because of Angelus. Drusilla never chose Angelus because he's more of Darla's boy instead of her which was said in the episode Darla, so in Fool For Love when Spike ran into her and Dangelus, she seen something special in him, that she chose to sire him as her life partner. I think you aren't understanding the show all the way.

Two other sets I've made:

https://crystalizeddiamonds64.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F188855939130

https://crystalizeddiamonds64.tumblr.com%2Fpost%2F188761049065
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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I like the way I understand the show thankyouverymuch.

I will never see Drusilla as a victim. The human she was sired from was a victim, but as a demon, she isn't anymore a victim than other vampires are.

We mostly get to see the Whirlwind as a three-piece, such as in S2 of BtVS and in "Destiny." The dynamic is very different here than it would have been when Darla was present. In "Destiny," Angelus talks about how he's been used to being the only rooster in the hen house. Drusilla clearly enjoys that position, too. When Darla is gone, she is the centre of attention.

We see in B, B, and B that an angry Drusilla is enough to give Angel pause.

He doesn't victimise her. He buys her gifts and cuddles her. It looks like very comfortable abuse.
 
FaithLehane16
FaithLehane16
You don't understand mental disorders

FaithLehane16

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I like the way I understand the show thankyouverymuch.

I will never see Drusilla as a victim. The human she was sired from was a victim, but as a demon, she isn't anymore a victim than other vampires are.

We mostly get to see the Whirlwind as a three-piece, such as in S2 of BtVS and in "Destiny." The dynamic is very different here than it would have been when Darla was present. In "Destiny," Angelus talks about how he's been used to being the only rooster in the hen house. Drusilla clearly enjoys that position, too. When Darla is gone, she is the centre of attention.

We see in B, B, and B that an angry Drusilla is enough to give Angel pause.

He doesn't victimise her. He buys her gifts and cuddles her. It looks like very comfortable abuse.
You still aren't understanding the big picture all the way, sorry.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Drusilla isn't a real person with a mental disorder. She is a fictional character, suffering from a highly romanticized form of insanity. It is the same disorder that all those pale waifs from gothic fiction novels suffer from.

Do you think anyone who has actually been kidnapped would look at Drusilla and find it to be a good faith portrayal of the kind of emotional dependence someone can develop to their abductor? Like, "Yeah, he would come home and feed me an organ he had ripped out of someone on the way home, and then I would dance around my flower garden a bit and say something cryptice to my dolls, before the two of us would crawl onto the floor and moan like animals." Text-book Stockholm Syndrome.
 

DeadlyDuo

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@FaithLehane16 One of my favourite Sprusilla moments is depicted in my banner (made by the very talented @RachM ) where Spike picks Drusilla up and says he'll dance with her on the slayer's grave then spins her around. Not only do I like the delivery of the line, but the music you hear is probably what Dru hears, Spike is doing that to plain silence.

I also love their little affectionate touches to each other which aren't the main point of the scene but just show you how much they care for each other.

Drusilla is not Angel's puppet. She loves having her "two boys fightin' over [her] and all." In "What's My Line,"
Dru likes being the centre of attention but its possible it feeds into a fantasy of hers. In School Hard, she says to Spike "I'm a princess!" to which he replies "That's what you are". In Darla, when she gets "permission" to make a playmate, she says the she's going to choose "the bravest knight in all the land" and she picks Spike.

She could see Angelus and Spike fighting over her as kind of a jousting tournament where the winner earns her favour because that kind of thing was seen as a form of entertainment in olden times. It plays into a fantasy of knights and princesses.

Angel tells Spike that he used to take his time with the foreplay, as Drusilla likes being teased, and once he loses his soul, he is all over her, treating her like a princess and climbing her belly with his fingers. Of course, a big part of his motivation is to torture Spike, but she doesn't care.
But again, if Angelus has trained Dru to respond to him in that way, then as far as she's concerned she's just doing what she's been taught do. She's not thinking about how it makes Spike feel because Angelus trained her before she even met Spike. She's just being obedient and getting praise and attention for it.[/QUOTE]

When Angelus returns not long before sunrise in Passion, Dru says "we were worried" and Spike replies "no we weren't". Dru's response is basically to apologise and make excuses for Spike "You must forgive Spike. He's just a bit testy tonight."

Dru is very caring towards Spike. She brings him the puppy "especially for you to cheer you up". When he refuses to eat she says "Come on, love. You need to eat something to keep your strength up." and when Spike says that won't have her feeding him "like a child", Angelus' response is "Why not? She already bathes you, carries you around and changes you like a child." (By "change", I'm assuming he means helping Spike get dressed such as tying his shoelaces for him rather than the other kind of change, because "dresses you like a child" might make it sound like Dru is putting Spike in clothes that a child would wear.)

If Dru didn't care about Spike then why would she look after him as much as she does. Dru is still sleeping with Spike as Angelus refers to her as giving Spike "pity access". Also Dru didn't break up with Spike for betraying Angelus, she broke up with him because he betrayed her trust by making a truce with Buffy ( which was treated as akin to cheating "I told her it didn't mean anything, I was thinking of her the whole time").

As far as Dru is concerned, she's exhibiting the "right" behaviour towards Angelus because that's what she was trained to do and not doing that would be "wrong".

To her, to men are better than one, especially when one is in a wheelchair.
If Spike being in a wheelchair was such a big issue to Dru then she would've just ditched him but she didn't. She takes an active role in caring for him of her own free will and continues to sleep with him. She CHOOSES to sleep with Spike, she sleeps with Angelus because she's been TAUGHT to do that (especially when Darla isn't around and Angelus wants a bed warmer).

It is easy to infalize Drusilla, because she seems so frail and spends most of S2 in inaction, but she is really quite clever and extremely formidable.
Dru is a lot more dangerous than people give her credit for. I'd even probably say that Angelus is wary of having her as an enemy hence why he likes to keep her under control. She put up a good fight against Spike and he didn't want to hurt her (though was prepared to), Angelus chose to back off rather than take on Dru over Xander.

In my opinion, the infantilization of Dru's characterisation didn't occur until her post Season 2 appearances. She has her mad moments in Season 2 (though seems quite lucid when she's alone with Spike) but later appearances have her spouting nonsense for no other reason than "Dru says something odd because she's insane".

I will never see Drusilla as a victim. The human she was sired from was a victim, but as a demon, she isn't anymore a victim than other vampires are.
She is still Angelus' victim. The whole reason he sired her was because death is "merciful" and he wanted her torment to last forever. Given how "chaste and pure" Dru was before she was sired, then Angelus training her to be his own personal whore would be the "finishing touches" to what he considers his "masterpiece".

We mostly get to see the Whirlwind as a three-piece, such as in S2 of BtVS and in "Destiny." The dynamic is very different here than it would have been when Darla was present. In "Destiny," Angelus talks about how he's been used to being the only rooster in the hen house. Drusilla clearly enjoys that position, too. When Darla is gone, she is the centre of attention.
Angelus uses her as a bed warmer when Darla isn't around. In fact, it could be that which upsets Spike the most. Spike genuinely cares for Drusilla whereas Angelus doesn't, so to see her be used so shamelessly and being unable to do anything about it would hurt like hell. Angelus' taunting of Spike is basically rubbing it in his face that Angelus can use Dru as he pleases and Spike is powerless to stop him. Dru doesn't realise Angelus is just using her because she's been conditioned to just accept whatever he wants to do to her because that's just how it's meant to be. Spike doesn't share that view so he sees it for what it is which is why he doesn't blame Dru for Angelus but is quick to call her out on the chaos demon. It is two completely different situations.

We see in B, B, and B that an angry Drusilla is enough to give Angel pause.
Which is why Angelus wants to keep her under control because if she turned nasty on him, there's a good chance he'd come off worse, especially as she would have reason to hate him.

He doesn't victimise her. He buys her gifts and cuddles her. It looks like very comfortable abuse.
Who are you referring to here, Spike or Angelus?

Spike doesn't abuse Dru at all. Angelus does.

As for "gifts and cuddles", abusers do that to their victims alongside the more unpleasant stuff because it helps keep the victim under control. In cases of domestic abuse, you'll often find that someone will beat the crap out of their partner and then buy them presents and say sorry before doing it again further down the line rinse and repeat. In cases of sexual abuse, abusers will often lavish their victims with "gifts and cuddles", make them feel special etc. It's all about keeping the victim under control.

"Comfortable" abuse is still abuse.

Drusilla isn't a real person with a mental disorder. She is a fictional character, suffering from a highly romanticized form of insanity. It is the same disorder that all those pale waifs from gothic fiction novels suffer from.

Do you think anyone who has actually been kidnapped would look at Drusilla and find it to be a good faith portrayal of the kind of emotional dependence someone can develop to their abductor? Like, "Yeah, he would come home and feed me an organ he had ripped out of someone on the way home, and then I would dance around my flower garden a bit and say something cryptice to my dolls, before the two of us would crawl onto the floor and moan like animals." Text-book Stockholm Syndrome.
I don't think Drusilla has Stockholm syndrome, Angelus has just trained her to accept his abuse and then thank him for it.
 

FaithLehane16

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Angelus kind of kind of abducted Drusilla from her family, which goes into the Stockholm Syndrome effect.

Also this is the Sprusilla love thread, NOT the Unnecessary, dense, bashing of Sprusilla.
 

Taake

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Black Thorn
Also this is the Sprusilla love thread, NOT the Unnecessary, dense, bashing of Sprusilla.
You still aren't understanding the big picture all the way, sorry.
You don't understand mental disorders
Please don’t condescend other members about what they do of don’t understand or tell them where to post. You’re making attacks against a member, rather than their opinions, which is not allowed.

Regardless if your desire for a love space for your ship, this is not acceptable. If it can’t be discussed more civilly I may as well just close the thread.
 

FaithLehane16

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I'd just prefer it if this thread was Sprusilla positive because the negativity annoys me and I don't have much patience.
 
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I have mixed feelings about Dru, however. Everyone talks about how mutually destructive Spuffy was for the few months in Season 6, but no one ever points out how abusive Sprucilla was for decades.
I would agree - if they weren't both so messed up to the point where a lot of it was just how the expressed affection for each other or the fact Dru is unstable. They are both monsters and in a way they deserve each other.
 

DeadlyDuo

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May we please be positive?????
I wouldn't say anybody has been overly negative of Sprusilla in this thread. Sometimes it's good to have differing viewpoints as it promotes discussion and gives opportunity to present your case as to why you think about Sprusilla the way you do. I'd quite happily talk about Sprusilla all day because they are one of the longest-running couples in the Buffyverse (110+ years) and in my view the best pairing on the show with fantastic chemistry.

I know I created a Briley thread presenting evidence for why I think Briley isn't the wholesome relationship it likes to make itself out to be. Buffy missing the helicopter was one of the best things that could've happened to her because the alternative would've made her miserable in the long run. People may disagree with you on your interpretation of things but so long as you can back up your points with evidence to show why you think the way you do, you can really get stuck in and create an involved discussion. Someone might say something you hadn't thought of before but actually makes quite a lot of sense.

I think vampires are essentially giant cats and there is evidence in certain behaviours that suggest this. They are very felinesque.

Most fans seem to think that Dru just ditches Spike in favour of Angelus. There is evidence that shows this is categorically not true.

We know Dru sometimes makes little dog noises towards Angel/Angelus. Does she make those particular noises towards any one else? If not, then it could lend credit to the theory that Angelus trained Dru like a dog and some of her behaviour backs this up.
 
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Black Thorn
May we please be positive?????
I'm trying but they are evil vampires, there is only so much good things you can say...
I don't dislike Sprusilla, it's actually one of the most entertaining relationships in the show, but they are evil, and their relationship isn't as straightforward as Bangel for example.
Also with one of them being insane, it's more difficult to understand what is right and wrong in a relationship. It's an interesting discussion but it's difficult to talk about the good things without talking about the bad because it's fairly complex.
 

DeadlyDuo

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I'm trying but they are evil vampires, there is only so much good things you can say...
I don't dislike Sprusilla, it's actually one of the most entertaining relationships in the show, but they are evil, and their relationship isn't as straightforward as Bangel for example.
Also with one of them being insane, it's more difficult to understand what is right and wrong in a relationship. It's an interesting discussion but it's difficult to talk about the good things without talking about the bad because it's fairly complex.
I think Dru is more switched on than she presents herself to be. She does have that element of madness to her throughout all her appearances, but in Season 2 she just seems more "with it" than she does in later appearances (I'm talking in terms of episodes). She does have her moments when she flips out over seemingly innocuous things eg the flowers being "wrong" but she's more dangerous and less kooky in Buffy Season 2 (when the focus is on her, Spike and Angelus) than she is in Angel Season 2 (where the focus is on Darla and Dru is essentially the sidekick).
 
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