Spuffies : SMG and the ship !

[KaitKat]

The difference Joss may say all that put he'll still put things like that annoying snog in End of Days and do B/A pandering shite in the comics.

I could say that Spuffy in it’s entirety was fan pandering. The fact is that Joss panders to both sets of fans but as someone who supports neither Bangel or Spuffy if you watch End of Days outside of the concept of the ship it makes sense. Angel has always been in Buffy’s heart. They didn’t stop loving each other circumstances forced them apart so they have a tendency to over romanize their own relationship. The kissed just like they did after Joyce’s funeral, and probably off screen in Season 6. He was brought back because Angel was a very big part of the show but ultimately it was a short cameo because they aren’t part of each other’s lives anymore and he belongs in LA.

Sometimes as a Spuffy you can feel pretty bashed so you take your support where you can.

Spuffys make up a pretty large section on the fandom so I don’t understand why they as a group would feel victimized and therefore justify using the words of another to support their position all while telling the opposing ship that they are weaponizing someone’s words for doing the same.

 

[Antho]

Sometimes as a Spuffy you can feel pretty bashed so you take your support where you can.

And Sometimes as a Bangel ( or actually any ships) you can feel bashed so you take support where you can.

It’s ok for Spuffys to do that but for Bangels you see it as « Bangels weaponising etc etc ( I’m not going to quote you again) ? That’s not fair to reproach to people things whereas you defend Spuffys for doing the same thing.

Can you please be objective ?

 

[Buffy Summers]

Let's be sure to keep to discussing ideas and points of view rather than making value judgments about people and their objectivity...

 

[Joan the Vampire Slayer]

No, it doesn't bother me at all that Sarah preferred Angel and Buffy together. She's entitled to her opinion, and we don't need to agree. I'm ride or die for Spuffy, and absolutely no one's opinion would change my mind that they're endgame and soulmates.

I also know that she and James are friends, and she has said that working with James was great, that it was fun to do scenes with him and he was professional, so there's that. And James has discussed how hard the AR scene was for him to do.

Post automatically merged: Dec 15, 2021

Joss seems to lean Spuffy, though, so there's that

...which is interesting, since Spike was never intended to be a romantic interest for Buffy, and James has discussed an interaction he had with Joss where he expressed how angry he was at how popular Spike had become, and he wanted to kill his character off.

I guess Joss came around eventually. Why, is unclear. Perhaps he saw how popular the ship was, or it just grew on him?

 

[Cheese Slices]

...which is interesting, since Spike was never intended to be a romantic interest for Buffy, and James has discussed an interaction he had with Joss where he expressed how angry he was at how popular Spike had become, and he wanted to kill his character off.
I guess Joss came around eventually. Why, is unclear. Perhaps he saw how popular the ship was, or it just grew on him?

IIRC SMG was the one who brought up the idea in the first place, and he refused by saying "no more vampires !". My guess is that he was initially frustrated by the popularity of both Angel and Spike, which was against what he was going for originally re. the symbolism of vampires. I imagine eventually he saw that Spike's arc could be taken to really interesting places and that pairing him up with Buffy made the most sense (+ the actors' chemistry), so he relented. I think this is pretty typical of this type of "creator with a vision": they just can't listen to a suggestion from someone who isn't them and accept it right away; they have to turn it around in their heads and do it their way.

 

[Btvs fan]

IIRC SMG was the one who brought up the idea in the first place, and he refused by saying "no more vampires !". My guess is that he was initially frustrated by the popularity of both Angel and Spike, which was against what he was going for originally re. the symbolism of vampires. I imagine eventually he saw that Spike's arc could be taken to really interesting places and that pairing him up with Buffy made the most sense (+ the actors' chemistry), so he relented. I think this is pretty typical of this type of "creator with a vision": they just can't listen to a suggestion from someone who isn't them and accept it right away; they have to turn it around in their heads and do it their way.

He also had Spike have sex with Harmony in Angel Season 5 too though. David Fury confirmed it was JW on the Destiny DVD commentary

 

[Ihamze94]

Sarah hated S6 Spuffy because of the S&M elements plus she felt like they took the ‘Buffy’s depression’ storyline too long to swing around plus she’s been vocal about the balcony scene

She’s largely fairly positive about Spuffy despite being a ride or die Bangel 😂 she was vocally very satisfied with S7 for Buffy which is even more heavily Spuffy than S6. She does prefer Bangel but James also prefers Sprusilla so I don’t think there’s any issues there

Of course she'd say nice things about Spuffy. She had already quit at that point and wants to satisfy the viewers. She had already gotten death threats for saying she's a Bangel shipper. If she had said that she doesn't like Spuffy, some crazed fan might actually hurt her. She can't even wish David boreanaz happy birthday without trolls harassing her online. It wasn't just the S&M stuff SMG was disturbed by. To her, Buffy hooking up with a evil soulless leech was out of character. She's a romantic at heart, she likes Buffy having those sweet moments with her love interests, not whatever she did with Spike and being told to do these degrading things on screen made her almost as depressed as her character was that season. She had to settle for Spike because Angel had his own show. If the show had continued then she would have fought for a Bangel ending. A lot of Spuffy scenes in season 7 was SMG half-heartedly saying the lines. Even when she was saying the words "I love you" to spike, I felt how empty it was. I'm sure SMG tried but she just was never that excited about Spuffy. Only time I've seen her light up is when Angel returned. fans talked about how it wasn't Spike she had a problem with but the BDMS but I don't see the difference. Spike doing evil twisted things is who he is and I believe that's SMG's problem with the toxic relationship. Don't get me wrong, I only have a problem with soulless spike. I'm fine with the one with the soul. Personally I think it was a mistake for Buffy to get with Spike when he didn't have a soul. The show ruined that ship for me and that's why I'm not a Spuffy fan. Fans likes bad boys but SMG likes heroes.

 

[Faded90]

Of course she'd say nice things about Spuffy. She had already quit at that point and wants to satisfy the viewers. She had already gotten death threats for saying she's a Bangel shipper. If she had said that she doesn't like Spuffy, some crazed fan might actually hurt her. She can't even wish David boreanaz happy birthday without trolls harassing her online. It wasn't just the S&M stuff SMG was disturbed by. To her, Buffy hooking up with a evil soulless leech was out of character. She's a romantic at heart, she likes Buffy having those sweet moments with her love interests, not whatever she did with Spike and being told to do these degrading things on screen made her almost as depressed as her character was that season. She had to settle for Spike because Angel had his own show. If the show had continued then she would have fought for a Bangel ending. A lot of Spuffy scenes in season 7 was SMG half-heartedly saying the lines. Even when she was saying the words "I love you" to spike, I felt how empty it was. I'm sure SMG tried but she just was never that excited about Spuffy. Only time I've seen her light up is when Angel returned. fans talked about how it wasn't Spike she had a problem with but the BDMS but I don't see the difference. Spike doing evil twisted things is who he is and I believe that's SMG's problem with the toxic relationship. Don't get me wrong, I only have a problem with soulless spike. I'm fine with the one with the soul. Personally I think it was a mistake for Buffy to get with Spike when he didn't have a soul. The show ruined that ship for me and that's why I'm not a Spuffy fan. Fans likes bad boys but SMG likes heroes.

I think SMG did a good job with the Spuffy scenes and her and James did have great chemistry. I think she struggled with the inconsistent writing of the relationship in S7 though, the scene in the kitchen in End of Days I think acting wise she looked like she struggled but the writing of that scene is so messy and blah I can understand she’d find it hard to convey what was meant to be conveyed because what was the scene even supposed to be about from Buffy’s POV? Joss did say she struggled with the I love you scene as she didn’t understand what Buffy was supposed to be feeling here

I don’t think she had a problem with Spuffy in general though

 

[Cheese Slices]

@thrasherpix "They" didn't say anything. I read it in one of her interviews from 1999.
As for the rest, my understanding is she mostly had issues with 6 because of her own vision of the character and what she should embody (basically she thought it was too dark), and thought S7 was an improvement.

 

[Antho]

Despite having troubles with the development of her character in season 6 and 7 I think we can all agree that SMG did her best. While she did have troubles to understand and connect to Buffy in season 6 and 7 I think she still gave us good performances and that’s all that counts !

 

[Stake fodder]

Despite having troubles with the development of her character in season 6 and 7 I think we can all agree that SMG did her best. While she did have troubles to understand and connect to Buffy in season 6 and 7 I think she still gave us good performances and that’s all that counts !

I agree with this. I don't care which ship SMG personally liked better, I only care that her acting was true to the character, showing that Buffy loved Angel, and then that Buffy had-complicated-feelings-that-were-maybe-eventually-love for Spike. I never doubted what Buffy was feeling, or felt SMG's performance was false, or she was interjecting her own feelings into it. Like @Antho says, that's what counts!