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Spuffiste what do you think of the Bangel?

Spuffiste what do you think of the Bangel?

  • I love

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I liké

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 4 22.2%
  • I do not like

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • I hate

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    18

buffylouvee

Townie
Joined
Oct 22, 2021
Messages
4
Age
23
Spuffiste what do you think of the Bangel?

- For Spuffy fans, what do you think Bangel likes seeing their relationships?

I love ?
I like ?
Indifferent ?
I do not like ?
I hate ?
 

spikeverse

Townie
Joined
Sep 22, 2021
Messages
73
Age
22
It's not very complicated, I don't like No, seriously, I'm used to being a fairly open person in general, but then the Bangel is between niet, nada, never and all negative words that will fall to my hand. Which is pretty sad, because I tried to like them at one time (slightly masochistic at that time), but nope, nothing to do

I never clung to this relationship. So, I hope not to be stoned by the fans of the couple who are on this forum, that remains my opinion, my way of seeing things and I can imagine that we do not agree ... But here, that remains my point of view ^^ I do not like them, and I want to explain and develop the why of the how.

Bangel is absolutely not my vision of love, in its most real and true. I think it's a relationship that perfectly symbolizes the theme of the first great love. It's always very strong and very passionate, Buffy had no real antecedent, and so she threw herself into this relationship headlong (note that from the start, episode 7, she finds a way to say " Our story is impossible. But * it's * a first love. Hyper-intensified, strong on form, and the kind of relationship that you can look at fondly or negatively (there is) once you're an adult. Regardless, it marks a person's love life. But that's not the kind of story, in the case of the Bangel, that I see going beyond.

What annoys me at first with this relationship is that we were thrown around the term "lover" slightly too quickly. I started doing the whole thing again, and I couldn't remember Buffy saying "I love you" for the first time so early. While they still saw each other relatively little, they did not really know each other (kissing endlessly, that's not a couple either), and my biggest concern is at this level : that's not love for me. For me, when you truly love someone, it's when you tell them "I love you" knowingly. When we * accepted * the other for what he was: learning to discover the other, communicating and exchanging with him, discovering all those little details that annoy you, take you off your hinges, or all those little ones details which, on the contrary, make you smile ... and say you are in love. There, for me, it's natural and it's deep.

With Buffy and Angel's relationship, I always had the feeling that they liked an idea / image they had of each other more. Precisely because they didn't really know each other.

The concern in the Bangel, as I have already had the opportunity to say it before, is that they focused too much on the fact that they could not be together, to the point where, in the end, they have forgotten all the rest. While this famous "remainder" was on the contrary the most important. The curse, the apocalypses ...: these are only external elements. Take couples where one of the partners has AIDS, or couples where one of the partners is severely disabled ... are these obstacles that really prevent them from being together? When there is love, and a good relationship between the two people, these kinds of worries ARE overcome. There you can talk about great love for me.
But the thing is, those famous exterior elements aren't their biggest problem, as they seem to think. Their biggest worries are internal: communication, exchange, trust, understanding ... This is where it * really * gets stuck. And I think that's what makes me not able to give credit to this relationship at all. Blah, curse, blah, but mash, shake and see what's under your nose

These stories where you have to see love because we tell you it's there, well, I'm sorry, but me, I don't walk ... I need to see it, I need it feel, I need to understand how we got there, and I need to see that it's real, that it's simple, that it's natural, and not hyper-intensified, just to say: haha, you saw, it's too beautiful, too strong Bah yeah, sorry, but no, it's not for me. Even though I want to admit that there was love between Buffy and Angel, I neither saw it nor felt it. When I think Bangel, I think "first love", I think "melodrama", I think "hyper-intensity", I think "idealization" ... All these elements that are NOT love (thank you psycho) .

What I reproach among others with this relationship, it is to have wanted to make tons of it for a story ultimately very hollow on the bottom. I found that it lacked any real depth, we really stayed on the surface: "Oh, I love you", "Me too" ... ok so what? What do you like about each other, I wanna ask

Buffy really went from bad surprises to bad surprises: she fell in love with her, kisses her after 7 episodes flat, and oops, he's a vampire! She sees him once every 36 of the month, declares to be in love, sleep with, oops, thin, a curse! We have the impression that she suffered more from her feelings as she went along.

Another element quite revealing of my non-love of the couple: I can not decently piff myself Buffy and Angel the characters when they are in contact with each other. As much as I adore Buffy in general, I find that this relationship has been a real strain on her character. I find that they mutually brought out the worst aspect of the other, and that's why I never hooked up to Angel's character in BTVS (hence my enormous apprehensions of getting into ATS, luckily I was convinced to change my mind, because I finally loved it in all of its other aspects ^^).

Afterwards, concerning the relation in time, well, I find that the more it progressed, the less it went. Season 1, they left me indifferent. Season 2, they got me a little drunk Season 3, they badly made me want to bang my head against the walls. I found it really heavy and indigestible, and yeah, again, I'm not sensitive to it at all.

Now, why do we sometimes show Angel on Buffy's side? (Because for Angel, I think he had definitely turned the page). No, it's not because "he's the only man in her life" and that she "will never love another", and blah, sorry, but these are not arguments ^^

I think it's mostly because her relationship with Angel has remained in the realm of fantasy. It has mainly remained based on "What if ...?". She never had the opportunity to experience anything concrete with him (other than their first time), they spent most of their time complaining that they couldn't be together, that they couldn't live their relationship, it's a totally * normal * reaction: to hyper-intensify it and put the story on a pedestal. But that this is a normal reaction does not in any way justify a * reality *. After Angel left, her relationship with him was subsequently even more idealized and fantasized in her memory. Angel, him, perhaps had more perspective because of his age, but Buffy, no (although she had moved on anyway, but this factor there made that it remained in a corner of her. spirit).

Subconsciously, she must have put their story on a pedestal, telling herself that if they were lucky enough to be truly together one day, their story would be absolutely wonderful. And yes, it's beautiful the dream, it's more attractive, I mean, who can claim to compete with someone's imagination ?! Nobody ... It's like when you are shown idyllic landscapes on postcards, a beautiful beach, an ocean as blue as the sky, bam, you happen, oops, there is garbage on the beach and the color of the sea turns slightly brown. The reality of things is always less rosy than on paper. It is assured disappointment and a pedestal that collapses on itself.
In short, this idealized version is surely the reason why after so many years, she still keeps Angel in a small corner of her head. But then again, she doesn't realize that they've missed out on the main thing in their relationship. To idealize the memory of a past love is not * to love * in the strict sense of the term, far from it. And frankly, I find it to be a much more unhealthy pattern of thought. It's also because of that that we had this scene out of nowhere at the end of season 7. "Hey, did you see, they kissed, that proves that they love each other", yeah, Yeah

I always feel that for the Bangel to exist, we had to put them in an extra-super-apocalyptic context or have them meet once every year, just to keep the fantasy alive (nah, it's done not completely on its own). And I find that very telling. Namely that it is a couple which does not have this potential of couple (besides, I remember that Joss had said that he did not really know what to say about the couple in season 3, but as Angel was going to have his own show, he had to come back). A couple must have a dynamic, character, an exchange, a communication, a real contribution to the other. A couple clash, it quarrels, the better to reconcile, even though it must be a trifle. For me, * that * is life. It's simple, it's natural, and it's profound. And above all: it is * credible * !! Because it's not because we hyperintensified their story, or that we made them cry, or that we were injected with endless melodrama with "I love you" every 10 seconds it was more powerful or more true. On the contrary, by wanting to do too much, it ultimately hurt them.

So there you go, to be honest, it's a story that annoys and annoys me at best. * Cough * Slightly sore the praline too * Cough *

That's why I stick 3000% to Spuffy and Cangel. Because they are my vision of love. Because I was much more receptive to their respective stories. Because even if both have been developed totally differently in terms of form in view of the contexts specific to the two series and to the history of the two characters, these are couples who come together a lot on the merits.

I think Spike is the one who would best allow Buffy to blossom in a relationship, because precisely, he expects nothing from her, loves her for who she is, supports her, he really pushes her upwards and allows her to find herself (cf. Touched for example) and it also works the other way around for Buffy vis-à-vis Spike, she supported him, defended him, believed in him and enabled him to become a Champion; just as Cordy allowed Angel to thrive, learn to love life, open up to others, and vice versa, Angel allowed Cordelia to mature, grow and become a Champion. These two relationships were beneficial, even if in the case of Spuffy, it was particularly perilous in view of the context (starting as enemies, vampire without soul, depressed Buffy ...). But they really pushed each other to get the best of themselves (Buffy, to Spike in the 7x09: "You saw the monster in you and you fought it! (. ..) You can be better, maybe you can't see it, but I see it. I believe in you Spike "), and to me, it's always the most important in a relationship. That's part of why I * believe * in that kind of great love, that kind of great, mature love, where you ultimately allow the other to be a better person, allows them to be fulfilled and to be fulfilled. blossom.

Either way, I think Spuffy, Cangel, and Bangel are different enough stories that they each amass a huge chunk of fans. We were offered stories that the fans saw as worthy of each other, but each one will have been receptive to them differently depending on their own experience and their own expectations.

I think it also responds to two different visions of love. Mine is unmistakably similar to that of Spuffy and Cangel, because the two protagonists of each couple are whole with the other. There is no lie or deception. Buffy went from bad surprises to bad surprises with Angel (as I said above); with Spike, it was the exact opposite, they started with the worst (in enemies), to end with the best, to discover the other for the best of what he is. We are as we are, and we show the other who we are, in the best, but also in the worst. And hey, despite that, they fall in love with full knowledge of the facts. This openness to others is not only a sign of great confidence, but also of intimacy. I find that extremely valuable.

Anyway, even if it's clear that Buffy will always keep something for Angel, because he's still her first true love, a milestone in a woman's life, I honestly don't believe in the potential of this relationship. . I suspect that some people do not have the same opinion as mine, and that, I respect him, but it remains my opinion. I want to believe that true love is based on knowing and accepting each other, based on something realistic and whole, where you push and allow the other to be better. And I want to believe that it is this kind of love that wins, that lasts and that is considered THE great love ...

Bangel is definitely not my view of love and they left me particularly cold. Well, I'm done

Here it is MY opinion sorry to have written a novel I tend to metal in my arguments ^^
 

Puppet

Actual size.
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
7,673
Age
33
Location
Denmark
Black Thorn
I like the story being told in S2, but the couple alone, no. In S1 he's too 'mysterious' and I wish Buffy had stuck to her original statement about 'really not liking the guy'. In S3, the melodrama was...bad.

Even when Buffy was sexing around with Spike in S6, her storyline was about way more than just him, but in S3, it felt like 75% of her story revolved around Angel, in one form or another.

For the most part, I tolerate them, on rewatches :p
 
sunnydalesummer
sunnydalesummer
Totally agree I find it too melodramatic in season 3 to make it ridiculous
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Messages
3
Age
37
I really don't like the Bangel I wouldn't say that I hate because it's a big word ... like spikeverse in season 1 I'm indifferent season 2 it annoys me a little season 3 a nightmare I can't happen even watched season 3 he completely spoils it the only good thing in this season is Spike during an episode and Faith if not the rest is "we can not be together" and I love you all time no thank you so no i don't like it leaves me bitter ...
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
7,852
Location
Canada
Sineya
I voted for "I like" because it's OK but I don't really see anything but an idealized connection. The real test of a relationship is 'what do the characters do after one of them screws up?' and we never see that with Bangel. We definitely see that with Spuffy. The doomed lovers aspect gets a little stale by the time Angel leaves and there was really nowhere for the story to go unless after Buffy was resurrected, Angel went hunting for a Mohra demon in order to turn human with the threat of Buffy dying being in the past but the show never went in that direction. They could have also tasked Willow with finding a way to get around the 'moment of happiness' clause in the original spell but they didn't go that way either. Nobody in Bangel had to pay bills, mow the lawn, wash the car, cook dinner, chastise children or do any of the other things that can cause an idealized relationship to bog down or cause stress, so Bangel as we see it is a relationship with training wheels - no need for any kind of balance.
 

Joan the Vampire Slayer

Carpe Spuffy!
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
5,986
Age
37
Location
WA State
I don't hate the 'ship, in fact I enjoy watching them because it makes for some great melodrama.

Buffy's feelings for, and history with Angel doesn't threaten me because I know Spike is endgame for Buffy. He is her soulmate. Her equal, her "dark place" and her best friend. She is the love of his life and his "hero."

Literally, it doesn't matter who, if anyone, Buffy ends up with. Because I know it should have been Spike.
 

spikenbuffy

"Hi honey, I'm home"
Staff member
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
2,527
Age
28
Location
France
Like them. Love their love story in the early highschool seasons as its a big reason of the second season success. Buffy seemed in love/infatuated with him from the start even though I don't know what she sees in him romantically or sexually that makes her love him that much LOL. I don't want to see them pining for each other eternally though.
 

Plasma

Be excellent to each other, and party on dudes! ❤️
Staff member
Joined
Feb 16, 2022
Messages
981
Age
23
Location
Westchester, NY
I think my hangup with Bangel is that you’re also signing up for Bangelus. Angel and Buffy are good for each other, especially during a time when she’s still trying to figure herself out, but there’s also a soulless psychopath waiting to get out in the mix.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,764
Age
50
Its of its time. It's something they both needed at the time and it helped them both grow but I hate how neither of them are able to let it go or look at it or each other realistic how especially she has him on a pedestal. So it's very mixed for me and it's coloured by a lot of very negative experiences with Bangel shippers.
 
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