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Spuffy challenge: signs indicating Spike's crush leading up to S5 Out of My Mind

SunnydaleGlitz

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Sineya
I'm making a compilation of all the things Spike said or did, or that happened through the seasons, which indicated Spike's attraction to Buffy leading up to his dream of her in Out of Mind (5.4).

If anyone has any I've missed or would like to add, please do so! It can be anything: quotes, a scene, a look, a symbol. Please mention episode and season number.
I'll kick this off:

S2, School Hard, Halloween, Becoming 2:

-Drusilla cuts Spike's cheek leaving a red blood smear; Buffy has a similar red smear on same cheek as she paints the Parent-Teacher sign. The red smear seems to subtly connect Spike and Buffy. (2.3)

-Spike watches, mesmerised, as Buffy dances at the Bronze and the lyrics play: 'One step away from crashing to my knees'. (2.3)

-Spike continues stalking the Slayer through video camera footage, commenting "Baby likes to play." (2.6)

-Kendra and Buffy switch so Buffy can fight Spike. Spike: "I'd rather fight you anyway." Buffy: "Mutual." (2.10)

-Spike: "Hello cutie" (2.22)

S4, Harsh Light of Day, The Initiative, Something Blue, Who Are You

-Buffy stakes an invulnerable Spike and he says "Oh. Do it again." Parker asks if Buffy and Spike used to date. (4.3)

-Spike: "Sorry, can't stay. Gotta go see a girl." "Hello gorgeous" (4.7)

-Everything that happened in Something Blue (4.9)

-Spike seems quite happy to be ridden until his knees buckle when Buffy, possessed by Faith, hits on him. (4.16)

I'm sure there are more, but these are all I could come up with for now.
 
debbicles
debbicles
Because it would be WRONG!!!

debbicles

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How about in Superstar, when he strokes her hair?? And she stares into his eyes?
Edited to say that I think the entire fight in School Hard is sexually charged.
Not to mention that in Becoming 2 the two of them seem already to form a great team - they fight, they quip and Spike encourages her to come clean to her mum about what is actually going on. Finally, in the living room, he very casually takes her elbow as if they've known eachother a long time.
 
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F
flow
And don`t forget this line: Yeah, she's a-a hell on the old skins, you know.

SunnydaleGlitz

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How about in Superstar, when he strokes her hair?? And she stares into his eyes?
Edited to say that I think the entire fight in School Hard is sexually charged.
Not to mention that in Becoming 2 the two of them seem already to form a great team - they fight, they quip and Spike encourages her to come clean to her mum about what is actually going on. Finally, in the living room, he very casually takes her elbow as if they've known eachother a long time.
Ooh totally forgot about the Superstar moment, and agree with you on School Hard and Becoming 2! Great examples. Never noticed the elbow taking...gotta rewatch! :)
 

Fool for Buffy

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Spike did not have to go to Buffy in Becoming or Pangs. He chose her out of, well something.

I know Something Blue has been mentioned, but I have to point out how genuinely intrigued Spike looks the moment the spell is lifted and Buffy is on top of him.

I can't think right now, all the good ones have been mentioned! Might add later.
 

TriBel

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I'm making a compilation of all the things Spike said or did, or that happened through the seasons, which indicated Spike's attraction to Buffy leading up to his dream of her in Out of Mind (5.4).
LOL! (Sorry SunnydaleGlitz - that LOL is at myself - not you!) My argument would be that Spike's been compelled towards Buffy since before he turned his mother. There's a reason the actress who plays Anne has a passing resemblance to SMG, a reason in FfL we have "tell my mother I'm sorry" (the words he uses in LMPTM), a reason the second slayer he kills is a mother. From this perspective, almost everything he does originates with the child's first Love/Hate relationship - the mother. So - you could start with "Home, sweet home". To make this less "icky" (it's really not), can I also say, I think Buffy is in a similar position vis-a-vis Joyce. It's Joyce who's the defining absent presence in her actions - not Hank. IMO, S7 partially resolves this and that's why I think it's the most important season for feminism). From Freud: "This unheimlich [unfamiliar, unhomely] place, however, is the entrance to the former heim [home] of all human beings, to the place where everyone dwelt once upon a time and in the beginning". That "place" was the mother's body. Revello means "plucked out". Where was Buffy plucked from before she was "pulled from heaven"? The mother. Heaven is simply the return of the repressed. It's summarised in this quote from Malcolm Bowie (much more eloquent than anything I could write): ‘if the later destinies of the subject are to be understood at all, they may be grasped only as the untying and retying in time of that original timeless knot.’ (NOTE: and, to people who've pointed out previously that sometimes "a pipe is just a pipe". I know this but in this case - it isn't).

The red smear seems to subtly connect Spike and Buffy. (2.3) Don't they have similar facial wounds in Showdown? (sorry - couldn't find a better picture). Interesting that hers is sutured.


Similarly - in terms of wounds - I think this is a defining moment (but I'm digressing slightly)

 
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Great image pick btw! Their facial wounds do match..I'm sure that's significant
debbicles
debbicles
argh you've stolen my thunder! I was going to make that point in the rewatch thread!! Seriously it's ok. Lovely picture and post.

SunnydaleGlitz

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Gotta check out Showtime.. you're definitely right! :p Thanks so much! What you say here:
"That "place" was the mother's body. Revello means "plucked out". Where was Buffy plucked from before she was "pulled from heaven"? The mother. Heaven is simply the return of the repressed."

Wow. This is brilliant!! It's an angle which never even occurred to me and it makes total sense! Completely agree with you! :):D . Not sure I see it that way about Spike, though. I don't see his obsession with Buffy as stemming from unresolved issues re: his mother (not sure if I'm misrepresenting your argument, if I am, my apologies!) I think that case could be made about Wood however, who really seemed to have mom issues. First, he asks Buffy if she's Dawn's mother when they first meet, then he asks her out on a date, then he compares her to his mother, then he tries to avenge his mother by killing rival Spike, then he says he feels safest in his mother's lap before sleeping with Faith the second Slayer. Overall, I think most of Wood's romantic interests are tied up in some way with his mom issues.

But Spike, somehow I don't see it that way. I think he was traumatised by his mother and her actions as a vampire, and was traumatised by her frailty and illness before when she was human, and true to his sentimental nature, he loved his mom deeply, platonically and perhaps dependently, the way he loved Cecily romantically, but he loved his mom in a NON-incestuous way.

Then, in LMPTM he exorcised that lingering trauma, and became a free man. Yes, the actress was chosen to resemble SMG, but Dru didn't resemble her, Cecily didn't resemble her, Nikki Woods didn't resemble her, and even Buffy - the imagery he connects her to is usually young and hyper-feminine: "Goldilocks", "gorgeous", "baby", "cutie"; alternately as "Hero", "Summers" or as the "Slayer" all of which respect her strength ("that's what you Hero-types do", "we'll go be Heroes"). I'm not mentioning sweetheart, pet or love, because these seem more like affectations when he uses them with others. He couldn't have known if Nikki Woods had a son, he was just gratified by the power he felt at killing two Slayers after suffering romantic rejection in his dorky human state. Drusilla didn't resemble his mother. Spike doesn't connect Buffy with his mother either subconsciously or directly in any way that I could see. However, it's a totally valid and interesting reading! It's just an angle I'd rather not explore bc it would creep me out too much LOL or worse still, ruin my love for Spuffy lol :eek::eek:

For me, Spike just saw a gorgeous, remarkable Slayer who touched him in a way no one else had before, and he fell head over heels. He didn't intend to become a better man, he was just compelled to become one in his journey for acceptance. To me it was like Dante's journey through hell inspired by his love for Beatrice.
There are lots of symbols that make me connect his love as a journey to gain 'worthiness' or a Petrarchan journey. The staircase framing (both in The Gift and Afterlife) suggests the distance he has to bridge between them to get to his beloved Buffy on a similar spiritual/moral grounding, the lengths he will have to go through to prove himself her equal. Purity is another theme - the fact that she's pure and full of light (she was in Heaven, her blood is pure just like Dawn's versus how he says to Glory that he's "as impure as the driven yellow snow"). His black coat vs Buffy dressed in white or red in many scenes with him (hers are colours of purity & passion). Finally, their role to each other goes back to Victor Shklovksy [Art as Technique] -which you mention in your other post about when Spike was dying in Chosen - IMO their love helps them both feel and recover the sensation of life and humanity. This is echoed in the lyrics in OMWF and seems to echo the concept of making the stone stony. There is no hypocrisy left between words and reality. Gosh, this is taking me back to my favourite film theory classes :) Love that I can connect this to Spuffy!
 
Whoa, didn't realise my post got that long!
 
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debbicles
debbicles
Are you related to Spike - cos this is all very poetic.

TriBel

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I think that case could be made about Wood however, who really seemed to have mom issues.
And...yes! There are, IMO, more similarities between Wood and Spike than differences. This is why, despite his harshness (probably uncalled for), Spike smashing Wood's illusions about his mum (while simultaneously not completely free of his illusions of his own), is ultimately - I think - a good thing. What intrigues me about LMPTM is the fact that it's only Mothers who're ever discussed. The episode is called Lies My Parents Told Me - where's the father in these scenarios? o_O

he loved his mom in a NON-incestuous way.
I think, from a Freudian perspective, "desire for the mother" is always "incestuous" (in theory - not in practice) simply because the mother is always the child's first love. I don't think there's anything suspect in Spike's relationship with Anne. It's a structural relationship rather than an actual one. It's what the mother represents that's important (it's simply that I'm stuck with stupid metaphors). Xin Rong - isn't Spike telling the story (he's an unreliable narrator). With Nikki - do we ever know what he fully knows about Nikki? I honestly don't think my argument precludes any of yours. I'm trying to think of reference points for you because mine aren't specific to film (they tend to be Kristeva and Irigaray - and on that note "I think their love helps them both feel and recover the sensation of life and humanity" will take you back to corporeality and the mother's body) and I don't want to rehearse my argument here. Barbara Creed (Phallic Panic and Monstrous Feminine) might help. On a film studies note, a) Noxon said she was trying to articulate a "female gaze" and b) did you know Robin Wood was allegedly named after the film theorist? On a personal note: good luck with the PhD! :)

@debbicles: " argh you've stolen my thunder! I was going to make that point in the rewatch thread!! Seriously it's ok. Lovely picture and post". Sorry! ;). Make it - you'll probably do it in a less boring way than me! :(
 
Grace
Grace
Is the “father” parent Giles and the “lies” the Slayer myth he and the Council have fed to Buffy? (That one is next on my rewatch so I don’t remember for sure.)

MarieVampSlayer

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In the episode In the Dark on Angel, Spike mocks Angel about being in love with a slayer. I always saw his ongoing obsession with Angel's love for Buffy as a reflexion of himself. Spike is attracted to the slayer but he is in denial. So he express his love for her by using Angel instead. Like saying you are buying something for a friend instead of sayong it's for you! ;)

This quote is actually very foreshadowing for Spike's love for Buffy:

''It's called addiction, Angel. We all have them. I believe yours is named Slutty the Vampire Slayer.''
 
debbicles
debbicles
Oh that's so funny. I'd forgot that one

debbicles

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And...yes! There are, IMO, more similarities between Wood and Spike than differences. This is why, despite his harshness (probably uncalled for), Spike smashing Wood's illusions about his mum (while simultaneously not completely free of his illusions of his own), is ultimately - I think - a good thing. What intrigues me about LMPTM is the fact that it's only Mothers who're ever discussed. The episode is called Lies My Parents Told Me - where's the father in these.....


@debbicles: " argh you've stolen my thunder! I was going to make that point in the rewatch thread!! Seriously it's ok. Lovely picture and post". Sorry! ;). Make it - you'll probably do it in a less boring way than me! :([/QUOTE
I can't make this quote work today.
Who said it was boring?? Pas moi! See I'm channelling my inner Miss Piggy!
Edited to say I'm an eejit.

Also FFB, re the end of the spell in Something Blue, I'm relieved it's not just me who sees that's flash of intrest and hope.
 
Gotta check out Showtime.. you're definitely right! :p Thanks so much! What you say here:
"That "place" was the mother's body. Revello means "plucked out". Where was Buffy plucked from before she was "pulled from heaven"? The mother. Heaven is simply the return of the repressed."

Wow. This is brilliant!! It's an angle which never even occurred to me and it makes total sense! Completely agree with you! :):D . Not sure I see it that way about Spike, though. I don't see his obsession with Buffy as stemming from unresolved issues re: his mother (not sure if I'm misrepresenting your argument, if I am, my apologies!) I think that case could be made about Wood however, who really seemed to have mom issues. First, he asks Buffy if she's Dawn's mother when they first meet, then he asks her out on a date, then he compares her to his mother, then he tries to avenge his mother by killing rival Spike, then he says he feels safest in his mother's lap before sleeping with Faith the second Slayer. Overall, I think most of Wood's romantic interests are tied up in some way with his mom issues.

But Spike, somehow I don't see it that way. I think he was traumatised by his mother and her actions as a vampire, and was traumatised by her frailty and illness before when she was human, and true to his sentimental nature, he loved his mom deeply, platonically and perhaps dependently, the way he loved Cecily romantically, but he loved his mom in a NON-incestuous way.

Then, in LMPTM he exorcised that lingering trauma, and became a free man. Yes, the actress was chosen to resemble SMG, but Dru didn't resemble her, Cecily didn't resemble her, Nikki Woods didn't resemble her, and even Buffy - the imagery he connects her to is usually young and hyper-feminine: "Goldilocks", "gorgeous", "baby", "cutie"; alternately as "Hero", "Summers" or as the "Slayer" all of which respect her strength ("that's what you Hero-types do", "we'll go be Heroes"). I'm not mentioning sweetheart, pet or love, because these seem more like affectations when he uses them with others. He couldn't have known if Nikki Woods had a son, he was just gratified by the power he felt at killing two Slayers after suffering romantic rejection in his dorky human state. Drusilla didn't resemble his mother. Spike doesn't connect Buffy with his mother either subconsciously or directly in any way that I could see. However, it's a totally valid and interesting reading! It's just an angle I'd rather not explore bc it would creep me out too much LOL or worse still, ruin my love for Spuffy lol :eek::eek:

For me, Spike just saw a gorgeous, remarkable Slayer who touched him in a way no one else had before, and he fell head over heels. He didn't intend to become a better man, he was just compelled to become one in his journey for acceptance. To me it was like Dante's journey through hell inspired by his love for Beatrice.
There are lots of symbols that make me connect his love as a journey to gain 'worthiness' or a Petrarchan journey. The staircase framing (both in The Gift and Afterlife) suggests the distance he has to bridge between them to get to his beloved Buffy on a similar spiritual/moral grounding, the lengths he will have to go through to prove himself her equal. Purity is another theme - the fact that she's pure and full of light (she was in Heaven, her blood is pure just like Dawn's versus how he says to Glory that he's "as impure as the driven yellow snow"). His black coat vs Buffy dressed in white or red in many scenes with him (hers are colours of purity & passion). Finally, their role to each other goes back to Victor Shklovksy [Art as Technique] -which you mention in your other post about when Spike was dying in Chosen - IMO their love helps them both feel and recover the sensation of life and humanity. This is echoed in the lyrics in OMWF and seems to echo the concept of making the stone stony. There is no hypocrisy left between words and reality. Gosh, this is taking me back to my favourite film theory classes :) Love that I can connect this to Spuffy!
 
Whoa, didn't realise my post got that long!
I think your and Tribel's posts would fit in really well in the season 7 rewatch thread. The ideas you both express are fascinating and thought-provoking. Wish I could claim them as mine!
 
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Aw, thank you so much <3

SunnydaleGlitz

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@debbicles Omg you are seriously the sweetest Buffy-boarder ever :) you just could not have said anything nicer ;) Love your posts! Always look out for them. I should check out the S7 rewatch thread!

@TriBel Thanks so much for the theory recs, and the good luck! :) ) Had no idea that's who Robin Wood was named after! These are all fascinating angles to look into!
 
TriBel
TriBel
I've got his book on Hitchcock (though I disagree with his reading of The Birds). I think the Hitchcock connection plays into his ambivalence.
debbicles
debbicles
Oh yeah that's me - all sweetness and light!!!!

gnarl

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This is a dark one, but in School Hard Spike says he'll "chop her into messes" when Drucilla asks him to kill the slayer. According to Passion of the Nerd's review of that episode (I can't claim to have noticed the reference myself), that line is a quote from Othello where he says he'll chop Desdemona into bits if he finds out she's cheating on him. A horrible sentiment, but it's interesting that Spike chooses a line that implies a romantic/sexual connection with the subject.
In the episode In the Dark on Angel, Spike mocks Angel about being in love with a slayer. I always saw his ongoing obsession with Angel's love for Buffy as a reflexion of himself. Spike is attracted to the slayer but he is in denial. So he express his love for her by using Angel instead. Like saying you are buying something for a friend instead of sayong it's for you! ;)
He also shows a bit too keen an interest in Buffy's love life, commenting on Parker in Harsh Light of Day and then Riley in Goodbye Iowa when he observes her "tragic taste in men".
 
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Oh, great points!
W

WillowFromBuffy

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This is a dark one, but in School Hard Spike says he'll "chop her into messes" when Drucilla asks him to kill the slayer. According to Passion of the Nerd's review of that episode (I can't claim to have noticed the reference myself), that line is a quote from Othello where he says he'll chop Desdemona into bits if he finds out she's cheating on him. A horrible sentiment, but it's interesting that Spike chooses a line that implies a romantic/sexual connection with the subject.
Yes, I think Spike was looking for a woman to best him. The slayers he killed had lost their spark, so they were unworthy. Buffy proved herself true by defeating him and surviving the trauma the world caused her.
 

debbicles

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I've just remembered a moment from Buffy v Dracula in S5.01.

When Riley goes to get intel on Drac from Spike, after Riley leaves it seems to me that Spike says very thoughtfully that Dracula would be likely to kill Buffy. And he doesn't say it as though he wants it to happen, in contrast to his "God, he's (Angel) going to kill her." From Becoming part 2. Then he shrugs and leaves with Dru in his arms. I think that was the last time Dru actually won over Buffy.
 
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Agree completely - Dru's strong influence on Spike seemed to steadily evaporate once Buffy entered Spike's radar :)

SunnydaleGlitz

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Oh, here are some other instances -
In Real Me, Spike is indifferent to Harmony's plan to kill Buffy armed with her new 'gang' of minions. He's the one who reveals to Buffy where Harmony's lair is later in the episode without much protest. (She only has to punch him a few times and he quickly parts with the information, helping her defeat Harmony.)

Though he professes to hating Buffy, he really just seems impressed/ drawn by her, even at this point. At the start of a scene between Buffy and Spike - we see him trying to fix the static on his newly installed TV and he quips he needs one of those satellite dishes...Buffy barges in, and he goes: "Speaking of dishes..." indicating his admiration of her looks.

In The Replacement, he's now bought a mannequin resembling the Slayer, to which he attaches a blonde wig. He kicks it hard, then lifts the head and caresses the face gently, murmuring under his breath "Oh Slayer...One of these days." It's an ambiguous statement which underlines his mixed feelings - it def conveys a certain amount of obsession/ longing.
 

debbicles

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Oh, here are some other instances -
In Real Me, Spike is indifferent to Harmony's plan to kill Buffy armed with her new 'gang' of minions. He's the one who reveals to Buffy where Harmony's lair is later in the episode without much protest. (She only has to punch him a few times and he quickly parts with the information, helping her defeat Harmony.)

Though he professes to hating Buffy, he really just seems impressed/ drawn by her, even at this point. At the start of a scene between Buffy and Spike - we see him trying to fix the static on his newly installed TV and he quips he needs one of those satellite dishes...Buffy barges in, and he goes: "Speaking of dishes..." indicating his admiration of her looks.

In The Replacement, he's now bought a mannequin resembling the Slayer, to which he attaches a blonde wig. He kicks it hard, then lifts the head and caresses the face gently, murmuring under his breath "Oh Slayer...One of these days." It's an ambiguous statement which underlines his mixed feelings - it def conveys a certain amount of obsession/ longing.[/QUOTE

Oh good call Sunny. I shall go back and have another look. I'm still engrossed in the S7 thread but I'm still around.
It would be really interesting to draw all these strands together because I think they'd show a definite progression. And didn't you post somewhere on the Back Steps that Spike's love for Buffy followed the stages outlined by Sufi poets? I have been trying to find that post, I think it was yours?
 
Oh for pity's sake my post has ended up inside the quote box again. This is too much. I'm sorry, everyone. My incompetence is very trying.
 
SunnydaleGlitz
SunnydaleGlitz
Done the same thing myself many times! :) Posted similar links below re: Sufi poets.

TriBel

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Oh for pity's sake my post has ended up inside the quote box again. This is too much. I'm sorry, everyone. My incompetence is very trying.
LOL! Hold the left mouse button and drag to highlight the quote (see screenshot below). See the reply button? Click on it.
upload_2018-3-7_20-21-1.png

When you click on it, you get the "double quote" in square brackets. Don't type anything inbetween the two QUOTE markers. Move the cursor below and type your message. :)
 
@Fool for Buffy - it's green because it's the Spike skin (I think). :)

upload_2018-3-7_20-49-44.png
 
Fool for Buffy
Fool for Buffy
It's green?! What the damn hell?!
Give Us A Kiss
Give Us A Kiss
You use Internet Explorer :O

Ethan Reigns

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@Fool for Buffy Follow down to the bottom of the page where there is a button labelled "DONATE". Above that, there is a line showing the skin on the left side and "Contact Us / Help / Home / Top on the right. Left click on the skin on the left and you will get a window of all the skins. I happen to use Band Candy but you can change skins at any time.
 
Fool for Buffy
Fool for Buffy
Thank you :)
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