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Spuffy was the most realistic relationship in the show.

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
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Sineya
Angel was the fairytale love story. Spuffy was the reality of casual sex. What do you think in comparison to real life adult relationships?
 

thetopher

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I agree that Spuffy was more realistic. In that I think behavior-modification chips are more likely to be seen in the real world than gypsy curses.

And I do remember one time that I was forced to declare my love for somebody through the medium of song; OMWF was so gritty it really resonated with me.
...

In all seriousness Spuffy was not more realistic than Bangel. They were both fantastical in many ways. You could say that one was more romantic and the other was more sexual, but I'll bet that many find Bangel sexier and others find the Spuffy story more romantic. Whatever floats your boat.

Most realistic? Briley. It has a meet-cute, a bit of dating, two people getting to know each others personalities, jobs and worlds. Those things happen in real life.
One of my friends had a college romance that was very much like Briley except the girl never fired a flaregun at him.
 
B
Btvs fan
You kidding ?! Riley was insecure and controlling while gas lighting Buffy. That wasnt healthy either

Btvs fan

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LOL Spuffy was far from realistic. If Bangel was a fairytale then Spuffy was a fantasy. Neither felt like a real life adult relationship to me.
Lol A 27/28 yr old Setting eyes on a girl at 15/kissing her when she's 16 and having sex with her when she's 17 does have a real world comparison, its called grooming. It's only because the actress was older than the character is it not called out more.

In reality both relationships were fantasies in a fantasy show. It's not like we had single mother Buffy, struggling because Spike is late on child support 🤷‍♂️
 

katmobile

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I agree I think Briley relationships are totally realistic you meet someone they tick your boxes and because of the chemistry, isn't there or problems with your lives happen which the other person can't help with or life and differing priorities take you in separate directions you split. I think the unacknowledged truth is both Bangels and Spuffys are incurable romantics as are Fuffys it just takes different forms.

Lol A 27/28 yr old Setting eyes on a girl at 15/kissing her when she's 16 and having sex with her when she's 17 does have a real world comparison, its called grooming. It's only because the actress was older than the character is it not called out more.

In reality both relationships were fantasies in a fantasy show. It's not like we had single mother Buffy, struggling because Spike is late on child support 🤷‍♂️
It's not just that Buffy is forced into being older than she would otherwise by the slayer role and Angel comes from a time when a girl of Buffy's age would be meeting men with a view to being married off to one. When you were considered to be getting on and in danger of being an old maid if you weren't married in your twenties. That's not a scenario which really has a modern real world equivalent that isn't creepy.
 

Nix

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Depends on the type of relationships you have experienced in real life as to wether you class Spuffy as realistic. I think there are many types of relationships out there reflecting all of the ones on the show. From Willow and Tara to Buffy and Spike. But none of them were healthy relationships imo. Sometimes love is harsh yes and ends in a mess or goes through mess but some can be healthy and respectful of each other. Doesn't have to be abusive all the time in any way.
 

thetopher

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Btvs fan: You kidding ?! Riley was insecure and controlling while gas lighting Buffy. That wasnt healthy either

Yeah, you might try reading the question the thread asks; most realistic, not most healthy.

Also yeah, I'd say it was the most healthy out of Buffy's relationships, given that she and Riley didn't once try and kill each other. Nor do I think Riley was controlling at all, he was insecure though.
 

white avenger

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I think that it probably depends on which Bangel, and which Spuffy relationship you're talking about. Season 1 through 3 Bangel was classic Harlequin Romance, pure and simple, with a little "Lolita" tossed in for spice. Something like that is hard to maintain over a long term separation, which is what happened once Angel got his spinoff. We don't have much of Season 4 through Season 6 Bangel to use as a reference, other than a couple of crossovers. Season 2 through Season 6 Spuffy defies any sort of description. Season 7 Spuffy had potential (also Potentials, but that part is irrelevant) but never managed to actually develop. Given another couple of Seasons, it might have been epic, but we'll never know, unless you count the Dark Horse series, which some here have trouble with.

I tend to favor Spuffy, because, at least in part I'm sure, because I never saw Bangel develop, due to not watching the show until Season 6, and I preferred the chemistry between Sarah and James, even after I later started watching the earlier Seasons in syndication. David just never seemed to "fit" my concept of a potential Buffy snuggle puppy, and as for Riley, the best said, the better.

Having said that, I have to agree with others, on a fantasy show like "Buffy, The Vampire Slayer," the term "realistic" has little or no meaning whatsoever.

And since we're talking about fantasies anyhow, neither Bangel nor Spuffy, on their best day, hold a candel to Jandy.
 

Btvs fan

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I think that it probably depends on which Bangel, and which Spuffy relationship you're talking about. Season 1 through 3 Bangel was classic Harlequin Romance, pure and simple, with a little "Lolita" tossed in for spice. Something like that is hard to maintain over a long term separation, which is what happened once Angel got his spinoff. We don't have much of Season 4 through Season 6 Bangel to use as a reference, other than a couple of crossovers.
That's the thing for the Crossovers, even way back in Pangs in S4 it always felt like the regressed Angel to me.
I know they definitely did in Chosen. It's like all his character development doesn't matter let's just send him back to Buffy s3 mode and the fans won't notice 🤷‍♂️
 
Angel6
Angel6
Forever is definitely the best Cameo on Buffy. But I love the scenes where Buffy is on Angel, IWRY and Sanctuary are both fantastic, and Angel doesn’t regress.

CHK DeWilSon

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As someone who was addicted to reading A LOT of Mills & Boon or Harlequin books, I never once came across one that had the male love interest turn evil after sleeping with the heroine and then try to kill her or any of her family and friends?! Maybe up to Innocence, I think there could be some justification for THOSE thoughts but after that and going into series 3, I don't believe it can be only viewed as just that.

Still I have read plenty of Danielle Steele and those types of romantic stories where the man and woman who initially hated each other, argue a lot and faught, eventually fell into bed and had lots of sex where they develop feelings for one another. Boy, what DOES that remind me of...

I will agree that the most realistic relationship that Buffy had would go to the one she had with a human. Riley and her may have issues that arose in their relationship but it was no worse than anything problems she had when she was with Angel or Spike.

And Buffy needed to have this relationship no matter the outcome. After everything that happened with Angel, she had to have a relationship that could be as normal as possible with the life she lead. And Riley offered as close to that even with the knowledge of who he turn out to be.
 

thrasherpix

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I've had casual sex and even "friends with benefits" thing when I was younger. None of them came close to being like Spuffy.

Though Spike in Spuffy DOES remind me of a couple of stalkers (but I never had sex with either, no romance, no sex, he was just creepily obsessed with me, one thinking we were "soul mates" despite my saying why that could not be).


ETA: That aside, speaking in general (and not for myself), I suppose Spuffy is closer to realistic than Bangel. Unfortunately.
 

Btvs fan

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As someone who was addicted to reading A LOT of Mills & Boon or Harlequin books, I never once came across one that had the male love interest turn evil after sleeping with the heroine and then try to kill her or any of her family and friends?! Maybe up to Innocence, I think there could be some justification for THOSE thoughts but after that and going into series 3, I don't believe it can be only viewed as just that.

Still I have read plenty of Danielle Steele and those types of romantic stories where the man and woman who initially hated each other, argue a lot and faught, eventually fell into bed and had lots of sex where they develop feelings for one another. Boy, what DOES that remind me of...

I will agree that the most realistic relationship that Buffy had would go to the one she had with a human. Riley and her may have issues that arose in their relationship but it was no worse than anything problems she had when she was with Angel or Spike.

And Buffy needed to have this relationship no matter the outcome. After everything that happened with Angel, she had to have a relationship that could be as normal as possible with the life she lead. And Riley offered as close to that even with the knowledge of who he turn out to be.
What's ironic is that for both Angel and Spike, Joss wasn't really into either relationship for Buffy. Whereas for Riley he seemed like he was.
 

thetopher

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Still I have read plenty of Danielle Steele and those types of romantic stories where the man and woman who initially hated each other, argue a lot and faught, eventually fell into bed and had lots of sex where they develop feelings for one another. Boy, what DOES that remind me of...
It's 50 Shades. Spuffy is literally 50 Shades with the vampire/slayer thing filed off. And nobody thinks 50 shades is realistic, its a sex-fantasy for middle-aged moms.
 

Spanky

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@Nix It wasn't a joke. It happens. Here's an example of someone that spoke about it. I'm sure there are many more that don't speak on these things.
 
Nix
Nix
I'm innocent, I wouldn't know of these things you speak of...
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GR83

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Spuffy... It's a relationship that grows. When I was a teenager, I used to dream of Bangel, but 22 years later, I believe that Spuffy belong together.
 

DayDreamer27

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If we go on Bangel vs. Spuffy, the former is more adult imo. To quote myself from other threads regarding the topic.


Adding to this. It's a HUGE pet-peeve that one of the first arguments against Bangel is "That was HS puppy love. and Spuffy was real"

Ok. So I guess it's HS puppy love when their relationship had struggles such as losing each other, almost dying for each other. Buffy nursing Angel back to health when he returned from Hell. Talking about her future with him. Her having to talk him down from killing himself. etc.

Most HS puppy loves don't involve half the things they had to get through. As individuals or a couple. Even in real life, many HS sweethearts have married. Meanwhile you have grown adults in their 0's who bounce from relationship to relationship and don't know anymore of what they want than some High School kids.

Using a classic example. Sitcoms.Cliff & Claire were a couple since HS. They were married throughout the show with 5 kids. But I guess because it started in HS, their relationship doesn't count? After all, they couldn't possibly have loved each other in HSS?

Another Roseanne x Dan Connor. Dan was the first & only man Roseanne was ever with. She lost her virginity to him on their second date. When he had his heart-attack, she's very vulnerable and says the heartbreaking words that she's worried to lose than man she'd been with since she was 15. I guess their relationship isn't true. Again teens can't know what they want & love someone/

My own parents. are an example. My mother has known my father all her life & has been with him since she was a teen in the 80's. They got ,married not long after she turned 18. Not to say their marriage hasn't had it's share of drama. lol But that's every relationship. However, note that I said DRAMA, not ABUSE & TOXICITY. There's a difference between those things.

Bangel was the former. Yes the relationship started when Buffy was young, but that doesn't mean they weren't experiencing the real thing. Buffy was 21 in season 7, and she still refers to her feelings for Angel as love. We don't have 21 year old Buffy saying anything like "Oh well Angel was only a crush" or "I thought I loved him but I was too young to know better." No. Buffy after having more life & relationship experience, losing her mother, trying to raise a child & support a house, still says she loved Angel more than she will anything.

And if we're gonna pick on age, then even season 7 Buffy doesn't know any better. She outright says she's cookie dough that hasn't fully baked. She says the last episode she's not finished growing yet. And that includes her relationship with Spike. He got cookie dough as well, by Buffy'sown words. Plus 21 is still college aged. How many college students have fully matured, when they're not out drinking, partying, and going through the phase of doing all their stupid stuff.

Bringing the comics into it it, Buffy is probably in her mid-late twenties in those and possibly 30 at the end. She STILL retains feelings for Angel. She had a fantasy about being chained naked to HIM and Spike. She was slightly jealous when Dawn was hugging him & talking about her crush. Puppy HS crush wouldn't be lasting until someone is damn near 30. lol

And, Buffy & Spike could be together whenever they wanted with NO limits. And the mutually chose to split up because they don't work without crisis. THAT seems more like teen love. Without the passion & danger, there's not much left. And Buffy even said that in season 6. Spike says great love is wild, passionate, and dangerous. It burns & consumes. Then Buffy tells him it burns & consumes until nothing is left and that love isn't lasting. And we see it in season 12 when they decided to split due to things being too peaceful. That sounds exactly like immature "love" that runs on passion or how worked up you can get each other -good or bad. It's about what you can feel in pleasure rather than feeling for someone else.

Meanwhile Buffy & Angel never made the choice to not be together. They just accepted that it was already decided that they couldn't be. They tried repeatedly being together only for something to stand in the way, and when they were together, there were tons of limits. Like sex. How many people going through just puppy love are gonna try to make a relationship work that they can't have sex in? Most horny teens won't be down for that. it takes love to entertain the thought of trying to be together without every getting to have sex Even adults don't want sexless relationships & won't stay in them. They'll either separate, agree for the able partner to have other lovers, or cheat.

I think the narrative needs to be dropped that Bangel was all about puppy-love & non-serious HS romance. Nowhere was their relationship treated as such in canon.
When Angel comes back in season 3, he's weak & Buffy is caring for him & bringing him food. Buffy could cry to Angel and be vulnerable with him and have him understand her feelings. As opposed to Spike who she tried to keep emotional distance from, and emotional tears her down by encouraging all her worst traits, and telling her those things are all there is to her, and by not accepting it, she's lying.

I suppose Spuffy is relativistic in the sense that some relationships are abusive & toxic. lol But just because it's abusive & violent, I don't automatically equate that with "more adult." I just equate it with all dysfunctional relationships, which adults & teens can have.

Then when Whedon comes back to the comics, he didn't do the ship any favors. season 10 + 11 are spent building Spuffy back up, then Joss has them break up for reasons stated above. So it reads like they were always sexually interested in each other, and tried to give a relationship a go based on that. And true to form when all the dysfunction was gone, and the fire died down, it became clear there wasn't much left besides friendly fondness. Bangel never ran off of passion & Intensity the way Spuffy did.

The way I see it, Bangel was a romance & relationship.

Spuffy was dysfunctional f**k buddies who let sex play with their head. And that sure does happen in real life when couples try staying together because the sex is great. Again difference between loving how someone can make you feel from time to time vs. how you actually feel about them.

In fact, it's like Sam x Diane in Cheers. They were as dysfunctional as couples come, and all they had was sex & heat, but no substance. It was hard to believe what they saw in each pother besides that. In the series finale, Sam admits that they had great sex to the point of needing to do CPR on each other, but besides that they weren't good together and just proved it when they met again.

Sex, passionate, and intensity can be good or toxic depending. But those things don't automatically mean a relationship is more adult, imo. Even as a casual sex affair, it was immature & more complicated than casual sex should be. If we go on casual sex, Faith was a more mature example than Spuffy. lol

You can argue both as fantasy.
Bangel is more the softcore female fantasy.
Spufffy is the hardcore dirtier male fantasy.
 
Last edited:

thetopher

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Sure it is.
I'll re-phase. Some people might think its realistic as a love-story, but many in the BDSM community hate it because of how it inaccurately it depicts real-life dom/sub relationships.
For example nobody uses zip-ties in bondage-play for good reason, that's how people accidentally get strangled.

You can argue both as fantasy.
Bangel is more the softcore female fantasy.
Spufffy is the hardcore dirtier male fantasy.
As a dirty-minded male I resent that. :p
I don't get off on smacking my partner around or violating consent. That's crappy behavior.

Even so let's not play their game and turn it into a Bangel vs. Spuffy, yeah?
 

Puppet

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But their relationship is never shown as dom/sub, in any way. Just because a couple likes to use handcuffs in bed, doesn't mean that they prescribe to the BDSM lifestyle, so there would be nothing for anyone to be offended by. It doesn't represent BDSM whatsoever.
 

Btvs fan

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But their relationship is never shown as dom/sub, in any way. Just because a couple likes to use handcuffs in bed, doesn't mean that they prescribe to the BDSM lifestyle, so there would be nothing for anyone to be offended by. It doesn't represent BDSM whatsoever.
Buffy was more the Dom in that relationship. She's in control and stops and starts it when she wants
 
Puppet
Puppet
It still isn't a BDSM relationship, regardless of how dominant/domineering Buffy is.
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