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DayDreamer27

Potential
Joined
Feb 11, 2018
Messages
206
I think that Robin used the only strategy available to get through Faith. As much as I love Buffy, I’ve always been fascinated (and somewhat jealous) of Faith’s self-confidence. But I think that there’s a consensus that Faith’s personality is probably the outcome of a rough life. Faith takes from people and shields herself. Faith doesn’t trust and she says so, she’s a loner.

From my point of view, Faith is really thrown off sometimes by people’s responses, but never enough for allowing herself to trust. The two examples that I have in mind are during the body swap. She’s thrown off when Joyce shows compassion for Faith (or course, Joyce doesn’t know that Faith is using Buffy’s body) and the same happens with Riley, he’s sweet and loving, not just looking for hot sex.

I think Robin reads her well. He’s into her, but the only way of getting through her shield is by playing in her terms. She immediately assumes that once sex is on the table, nothing else matter, men only want her body. So, Robin, who’s also bracingly confident, cannot be sweet or romantic, or very forward (sexually), that would only make Faith retreat. Instead he’s just as cynical as she is, and that gets her attention. I see the comment that he’s hotter than her as a tongue-in-cheek remark. And the comment regarding their night together is the second bait to make her open up. But instead of accepting having sex with her in that moment, he offers her the possibility of surprising her in they survive.

IMO, he’s not undermining her self-worth. I see the opposite. I see him telling her, you are more than a pretty girl with a great body, and I’d like you to give me a chance to show you that not all men are bad. I honestly don’t see another way of getting through Faith’s shield.

Do you think that there was a better way of getting through her?
I so LOVE the Faith x Robin analogy. I see a few people here who really hated Robin in that scene & seem to read him as a misogynist. But I never read it like that. I thought it was a fun scene, but you broke it down & explained it in a way I never could.

I also read it as Robin throwing similar cavalier attitude back to her due to that sometimes being her language. Faith placed her self worth on her looks & sexuality. And she eventually started to embrace her "sexual power" over men by turning the tables & becoming the hunter herself.

She uses guys the way they used her. Rather than stay a victim of guys lying their way into her pants & dropping her, she started making her sexuality a weapon by just having fun, then cutting the line before the guys could. And Robin fell into that category. Faith was getting better & I don't think she had malevolent intent to Robin, but she is still jaded & thinks guys don't / won't have any interest in her beyond sex. So after their night together, it was a case of "it happened" with Faith. But Robin liked her for more than that and he spoke her language to get it across. Faith thought he just wanted another round in the sack. And he was telling her he wasn't that desperate. He wanted her for more than just her being a hot chick.
 
r2dh2
r2dh2
My thoughts exactly.I’ve never thought of him as a misogynist, I kinda like him. I’m a Spuffy fan, and despite his date with Buffy and his attempt of killing Spike, I’ve always felt that he’s a pretty decent guy (but seems to be an unpopular opinion)

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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And Wood does this by playing the game of reverse psychology and undermining any sense of Faith's self-worth.
I agree. I find Wood to be unlikeable from LMPTM onwards. He lures Spike into a trap in a cold and calculating manner, uses Spike's trigger against him despite knowing Spike has a soul (probably so he could claim self-defence when he killed Spike), he gets pissy when Buffy won't let him kill Spike so gets his own back by jumping on Kennedy's band wagon with the mutiny..... and then there's the stuff with Faith.

I can't ship Wood with Buffy or Faith because its too Oedipus complex like. Faith has always prided herself on her sexual prowess, she doesn't have much in life but she has that and then Wood is there telling her that she's not all that in the sack.

I think a big problem with Season 7 is that they introduced a load of new characters and the ones that get the lion's share of screen time (out of the newbies) are not very likeable eg Kennedy, Wood, Rona.
 
thetopher
thetopher
I completely agree. Wood starts off as great but from LMPTM he's a back-stabbing, manipulative scumbag with a slayer-fetish. He's should've died after being gutted by a bringer. :(
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
706
Black Thorn
I think a big problem with Season 7 is that they introduced a load of new characters and the ones that get the lion's share of screen time (out of the newbies) are not very likeable eg Kennedy, Wood, Rona.
It would be so much better if they used the time to develop the mass of potentials on Wood instead, I want to be able to sympathise with him but he wasn't developed enough as a character so he's not much more than a nuisance to me.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Messages
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Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
For me, LMPTM is the epitome of that ambivalence. Yes, it might be in character of Giles to do that. But we are 7 years into their relationship, Buffy has grown up, she’s the leader, she plans and executes the strategies, she calls the shots.

He clearly disagrees with her, they have several conversations and she stands her ground. So, he goes behind her back for her “own good.” But Buffy is no longer the teenager he was training, she’s the one in charge (she makes mistakes, we all know it, and her decision might be questionable). But if he really wanted her to grow up by leaving in S6 and by pushing her be the leader in S7, he should have respected her decision. Instead, he treats her like a child again, someone who doesn’t know better.
But the fact is that Giles has been deferring to Buffy's decision as the slayer since...mid-Season 3?
The only time he questioned her judgement as the slayer in an open forum was over Dawn and Glory in 'The Gift'? When the world was at stake.

In LMPTM Buffy even admits that Giles was right then, or at least concedes the point that she could- if she had to- sacrifice Dawn to save the world now. Whether you agree with her sincerity or not Giles is not treating her like a child by questioning her judgement.

And all the thing with Spike and the chip is even worse. Dawn was an innocent sacrifice in the service of evil (the Key), but Spike is a dangerous pawn in the service of a greater evil and Buffy won't countenance restraining him, never mind killing him.

So I suppose that if Giles is treating Buffy like a child then that's because she is behaving in an irrational, child-like manner. The fact that Giles was 'wrong' to do what he did is completely arbitrary since nobody in that particular episode comes out looking good.

I don't see Giles 'growing' from it at all, basically.

I think that Robin used the only strategy available to get through Faith.
Y'see I just think this is Wood being his manipulative self. It fits with he personality that's been revealed since his attempt on Spike's life. He says one thing to Buffy, then when she takes his suggestion he turns on her and 'picks' Faith over her in 'Empty Places'.

Btw this is why I disagree that Wood 'grows up'; he doesn't learn to forgive Spike, he just never interacts with him again. In fact they never even share another scene together. So how can we know that Wood 'understands that vengeance is wrong now' and matures?

I think Robin reads her well. He’s into her, but the only way of getting through her shield is by playing in her terms. She immediately assumes that once sex is on the table, nothing else matter, men only want her body. So, Robin, who’s also bracingly confident, cannot be sweet or romantic, or very forward (sexually), that would only make Faith retreat.
I think Robin takes Faith entirely at face value; he doesn't know her at all.
He just refers to 'isolationist slayer crap' after knowing her for...a day? Maybe two? But her treatment of guys has not one thing to do with her being a slayer, she's just had a lot of bad experiences with guys that has left her cynical about men in general. The viewer has known this since S3.
In the meantime she has been shown to be capable of forming relationships/camaraderie with men based on mutual respect (Angel, Wesley, Gunn).

The fact is his 'I want to get the real you' seems more like he projecting his own issues on to her. He didn't know he Mom- who 'never loved him' apparently, and so wants to get closer to a slayer. He tried with Buffy but she picked the guy who killed him Mom over Wood himself (she even echoes his Mom's sentiment 'the mission is what matters' in doing so) and so he 'moves on to Faith'.

The whole thing is deeply shallow. And I can't see what a thirty something like him has in common with Faith, a woman he barely knows, except the slayer connection.

The had a one-night stand after two brief conversations just before she was going into proverbial battle. I never had a problem with Faith's position, but Wood's subsequent entitlement baffled me.

Do you think that there was a better way of getting through her?
Oh tons, loads of tons.
But having said that I think that after they slept together and with a limited amount of (screen) time Wood took the quickest approach and manipulated her into giving him another chance. There are plenty of other ways to get through Faith's barriers, especially since we're talking about her S7 self. She's not as stubborn as she once was, all Wood has to prove is that he's not 'another loser' for Faith to take a chance on. That should've been easy, given enough time.

Unsurprisingly their relationship utterly fails in the comics and is never revisited, even when Faith is more mature and single. They just aren't right together.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Y'see I just think this is Wood being his manipulative self. It fits with he personality that's been revealed since his attempt on Spike's life. He says one thing to Buffy, then when she takes his suggestion he turns on her and 'picks' Faith over her in 'Empty Places'.

Btw this is why I disagree that Wood 'grows up'; he doesn't learn to forgive Spike, he just never interacts with him again. In fact they never even share another scene together. So how can we know that Wood 'understands that vengeance is wrong now' and matures?
I completely agree. Buffy expressed concern over taking the potentials to the vineyard because they hadn't been tested and Wood told her to "test them". When it all went disastrously wrong (though that wasn't Buffy's fault- they underestimated how strong Caleb was since he took out both Buffy AND Spike), Wood turns on her and kind of plays the innocent. It was Wood and Kennedy that were leading the mutiny.

Kennedy had no respect for Buffy from day one, within seconds of her arrival she's looking down her nose at Buffy "so this is the slayer". Wood backstabs Buffy because she wouldn't let him kill Spike and in a way, he turns his revenge from Spike to Buffy. The scoobies expressing concern over Buffy's judgement is one thing, but the mutiny wasn't scooby led, it was Kennedy led and the scoobies followed her. That's all kinds of wrong. Willow doesn't even say anything before Kennedy jumps down her throat and accuses her of always sticking up for Buffy. Why wouldn't Willow stick up for Buffy, she's know Buffy for 7 years and been through several apocalyptic scenarios with her, she's known Kennedy 2 minutes.

I think Robin takes Faith entirely at face value; he doesn't know her at all.
He just refers to 'isolationist slayer crap' after knowing her for...a day? Maybe two? But her treatment of guys has not one thing to do with her being a slayer, she's just had a lot of bad experiences with guys that has left her cynical about men in general. The viewer has known this since S3.
In the meantime she has been shown to be capable of forming relationships/camaraderie with men based on mutual respect (Angel, Wesley, Gunn).

The fact is his 'I want to get the real you' seems more like he projecting his own issues on to her. He didn't know he Mom- who 'never loved him' apparently, and so wants to get closer to a slayer. He tried with Buffy but she picked the guy who killed him Mom over Wood himself (she even echoes his Mom's sentiment 'the mission is what matters' in doing so) and so he 'moves on to Faith'.

The whole thing is deeply shallow. And I can't see what a thirty something like him has in common with Faith, a woman he barely knows, except the slayer connection.

The had a one-night stand after two brief conversations just before she was going into proverbial battle. I never had a problem with Faith's position, but Wood's subsequent entitlement baffled me.
The speed with which Wood switched his attention from Buffy to Faith was creepy. He took Buffy out on a date which suggested a romantic interest (or was it just a manipulative tactic?) but as soon as Buffy "wronged" him by not letting him kill Spike, she's the lowest of the low in his eyes. It does feel like he's setting Buffy up by suggesting she takes the potentials to the vineyard. Whilst Kennedy is awful and aggressive during the mutiny, that at least suggests she's having an emotional response to what happened at the vineyard, Wood is too calm and collected. I think Wood intended for things to go wrong for Buffy.

In regards to Faith and the "I want to get the real you", I'd say Faith is quite honest about who she is. She's not pretended to be something she's not, what you see is what you get. What was Wood expecting? It's definitely the slayer thing that he's attracted to, the fact he immediately switches from Buffy to Faith (not to mention the fact he has sex with Faith in Buffy's bed which seems like a really insulting thing to do given his treatment of Buffy) so easily is almost evidence of that.

It begs the question of what he would've been like with Kendra had she lived, would he be all over her like a rash as he was with Faith?


But having said that I think that after they slept together and with a limited amount of (screen) time Wood took the quickest approach and manipulated her into giving him another chance. There are plenty of other ways to get through Faith's barriers, especially since we're talking about her S7 self. She's not as stubborn as she once was, all Wood has to prove is that he's not 'another loser' for Faith to take a chance on. That should've been easy, given enough time.

Unsurprisingly their relationship utterly fails in the comics and is never revisited, even when Faith is more mature and single. They just aren't right together.
Well there would be plenty of other slayers out in the world, meaning that Wood isn't limited to Faith or Buffy any more. You can just see him finding one that has physical similarities to his mother.
 

Buffy Summers

Yataro
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Sineya
Just my personal opinion - I think that's a little unfair to Wood. Just because you go on a date with someone doesn't mean you have to be madly in love with them, and never date anyone else. It didn't work out with Buffy, and when he met Faith he found out he really liked her. Nothing wrong with that.

:)
 
KatrinaL
KatrinaL
Preach!

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Messages
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Sineya
It didn't work out with Buffy, and when he met Faith he found out he really liked her.
That's the thing, can you really like somebody when you don't even know them? I have no problem with the concept of Wood/Faith, just the execution of how his character got with her.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
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Just my personal opinion - I think that's a little unfair to Wood. Just because you go on a date with someone doesn't mean you have to be madly in love with them, and never date anyone else.
Of course not. However it's a bit suspect that Wood goes on a date with Buffy, tries and fails to kill Spike, Buffy tells him she won't let him kill Spike, then all of a sudden Buffy is the lowest of the low and Wood is interested in the only other slayer around. Not to mention the less than positive history between Faith And Buffy.

That's the thing, can you really like somebody when you don't even know them? I have no problem with the concept of Wood/Faith, just the execution of how his character got with her.
I agree to an extent. Post LMPTM, Faith could do a lot better than Wood.
 

r2dh2

Never go for the kill when you can go for the pain
Joined
Apr 12, 2019
Messages
269
But the fact is that Giles has been deferring to Buffy's decision as the slayer since...mid-Season 3?
The only time he questioned her judgement as the slayer in an open forum was over Dawn and Glory in 'The Gift'? When the world was at stake.

In LMPTM Buffy even admits that Giles was right then, or at least concedes the point that she could- if she had to- sacrifice Dawn to save the world now. Whether you agree with her sincerity or not Giles is not treating her like a child by questioning her judgement.

And all the thing with Spike and the chip is even worse. Dawn was an innocent sacrifice in the service of evil (the Key), but Spike is a dangerous pawn in the service of a greater evil and Buffy won't countenance restraining him, never mind killing him.

So I suppose that if Giles is treating Buffy like a child then that's because she is behaving in an irrational, child-like manner. The fact that Giles was 'wrong' to do what he did is completely arbitrary since nobody in that particular episode comes out looking good.

I don't see Giles 'growing' from it at all, basically.
Pre-S7, he always a paternal figure, either officially as the Watcher or unofficially as her mentor. They would trained together, discussed plans together, and made join decisions (at least during the big events). In S5, he kept training with her, he took over paper work after Joyce died, he tried to push Buffy to be tougher with Dawn, and so on. But in S6 we have Buffy asking him again to scold Dawn (when she went out during Hallowing). And we also see Buffy happily accepting the money that he offered (she needed it, I agree. But in the scene, you can actually see some disappointment in Giles. Not because she took the money, but because she took it for granted). The reason that he gave for leaving Sunnydale was that Buffy had to take responsibility and that she wouldn’t completely grow-up if he was around.

And no, I don’t think that discussing her choices with her or questioning her judgement was treating her like a child. To me, it was going behind her back and acting again in a paternalistic way. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a leader and the same time undermine her authority by openly challenging and doing something she was opposed to. I’m not making a stand on whether she was right o not. I’m making an argument as to how his actions weaken her role as a leader.

And I already said it. By growth I meant that he got the point across. He's now just another member of the group, he's no longer their moral compass. Sure, people still can rely on his wisdom and point of view, but the dynamic is CLEARLY very different from S1 to S6, and he does accept it in the last few episodes.

Btw this is why I disagree that Wood 'grows up'; he doesn't learn to forgive Spike, he just never interacts with him again. In fact they never even share another scene together. So how can we know that Wood 'understands that vengeance is wrong now' and matures?
He puts the mission above revenge. That right there, that's is growth. He could have decided to walk away from helping to fight the First because he didn’t wanna be involved with his mother’s killer, or he could have tried to kill Spike again.

Y'see I just think this is Wood being his manipulative self. It fits with he personality that's been revealed since his attempt on Spike's life. He says one thing to Buffy, then when she takes his suggestion he turns on her and 'picks' Faith over her in 'Empty Places'.
Spike is my favorite character and I hated that he tried to kill him. But what would you do if you find the person that killed your mother? Wouldn’t you try to find out as much as possible about that person and try to get justice (or revenge)? He didn’t know who the Scoobies were and how/where Spike fitted in. So, he tried to get closer to get a better understanding (you call it manipulation, I call it recon). I don’t blame him for trying. I’d do the same if presented with a similar scenario.

As for giving bad advice and not owning it, yeah. I can agree with that.

I think Robin takes Faith entirely at face value; he doesn't know her at all.
He just refers to 'isolationist slayer crap' after knowing her for...a day? Maybe two? But her treatment of guys has not one thing to do with her being a slayer, she's just had a lot of bad experiences with guys that has left her cynical about men in general. The viewer has known this since S3.
In the meantime she has been shown to be capable of forming relationships/camaraderie with men based on mutual respect (Angel, Wesley, Gunn).
Does she have romantic relationship with them? I haven't seen AtS. If so, I'd need to know more to give you a better answer.

And I think that Robin reads Faith very well, she hides behind cynicism and isolation because she's scared of letting people in. She tries to protect herself and all I see is him wanting to get her know better, beyond the facade she uses to protect herself. I still don't see anything wrong with that.

The fact is his 'I want to get the real you' seems more like he projecting his own issues on to her. He didn't know he Mom- who 'never loved him' apparently, and so wants to get closer to a slayer. He tried with Buffy but she picked the guy who killed him Mom over Wood himself (she even echoes his Mom's sentiment 'the mission is what matters' in doing so) and so he 'moves on to Faith'.
I’m not too crazy about his date with Buffy. But he’s allowed to date. Was it really a date or a way to get to know the slayer? Probably both. I’m glad that it was never more than one date. I root for Spike.

But if Buffy has a thing for vampires or supernatural men, why is Robin not allowed to be attracted to slayers? We all have a type. Sure, it might the outcome of an Oedipus or Electra complex, but that’s fine, we seek comfort in relationships.

The whole thing is deeply shallow. And I can't see what a thirty something like him has in common with Faith, a woman he barely knows, except the slayer connection.
I dated a man 10 year older than me when I was in my early 20s, and that happened after having a couple of conversations, we were attracted to each other (was that wrong because he was older? It’s the first time that somebody suggests that age difference is grounds for not trying to have a relationship). And it turned out that we had a lot in common despite the age gap and our relationship was successful for several years. Did I have bad experiences before him and was I scared? Sure, we’ve all been scarred one way or another.

And you do know that romantic love starts with physical attraction, right? What does Robin know about Faith? He knows that she’s attractive, self-confident, she’s reformed and has accepted responsibility for her bad actions, she took over the leadership and tried to establish herself as the new authority leader as soon as it happened, she’s good in bed, and few more things.

All of these are attractive qualities. Then, why not wanting to get to know her better? What’s wrong with that? If it works, it does, if doesn’t, then it doesn’t. But you won’t know if you don’t try and Faith had already blown him off – she immediately assumed that he was like the other men that had let her down in the past (and he sees through that).

The had a one-night stand after two brief conversations just before she was going into proverbial battle. I never had a problem with Faith's position, but Wood's subsequent entitlement baffled me.
I don't see entitlement, I see a man trying to get to know a woman that doesn't want to let people in.

Oh tons, loads of tons.
But having said that I think that after they slept together and with a limited amount of (screen) time Wood took the quickest approach and manipulated her into giving him another chance. There are plenty of other ways to get through Faith's barriers, especially since we're talking about her S7 self. She's not as stubborn as she once was, all Wood has to prove is that he's not 'another loser' for Faith to take a chance on. That should've been easy, given enough time.

Unsurprisingly their relationship utterly fails in the comics and is never revisited, even when Faith is more mature and single. They just aren't right together.
I have NO idea about the comics, so I’m only focusing on the show.

Again, I don’t see anything wrong with him trying to get her to give him a chance. The morning after their night together, she's pretty forward saying that that's it for them because men want only her body (she does says so). So I still think that he played the hand he was dealt and took a chance at trying to get to know her better, despite her barriers. Do they have something in common? We’ll see. You don’t start a relationship knowing everything about a person, you take a chance and get to know each other.
 
Leo
Leo
I clearly love Giles, but he can be a prick sometimes.

FirstEvil78

From beneath you, it devours... Spuffy lover
Joined
Apr 7, 2019
Messages
42
@r2dh2 I mostly agree but I think that @thetopher might have a point with the Oedipus/Electra complexes being not super healthy. I'll have to check out the comics to analyze better their relationship.
 

MrsDupas

Townie
Joined
Apr 7, 2019
Messages
38
All of these are attractive qualities. Then, why not wanting to get to know her better? What’s wrong with that? If it works, it does, if doesn’t, then it doesn’t. But you won’t know if you don’t try and Faith had already blown him off – she immediately assumed that he was like the other men that had let her down in the past (and he sees through that).
I like how you framed it, but perhaps Faith is too jaded to try. I find it reassuring that he didn't push too much (well, they didn't have that much time, they were going to a battle). But I see him as being the type that wouldn't take rejecting in a bad way, specially with somebody like Faith (meaning that she has her reasons for not trusting people). I need to read the comics to know what happened.
 

KatrinaL

"I'm not strong. I'm not an Amazon. I'm just me."
Joined
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Messages
50
Age
29
Ok, this is a long post. But summarizing MY take away from S7: learning to take responsibility for your actions, seeking forgiveness/redemption by following a bumpy and painful road (even when it feels impossible), becoming an adult, and learning to share the burden (no more isolation – or as some of you appropriately called it, “empowering” others).
Ok, let's say that I buy this adulthood metaphor and you've done a decent job at defining what it meant for Robin and Giles (although I have a couple of reservations that I'll put down later). And I see Buffy growing up, same with Faith, heck even Dawn. But what about Xander, Anya and Andrew. I feel that their characters were static in this season, flat... ran-over by the potentials.
 
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S
Stephan
The original cast drowned among the potentials... TOO MANY of them.
Leo
Leo
Love your style, just make sure that you don't write the phrases the way you clearly intended initially, you'd be censored hahaha.

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
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Messages
10,075
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The Moot, England
Sineya
To me, it was going behind her back and acting again in a paternalistic way. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot have a leader and the same time undermine her authority by openly challenging and doing something she was opposed to. I’m not making a stand on whether she was right o not. I’m making an argument as to how his actions weaken her role as a leader.
And I already said it. By growth I meant that he got the point across. He's now just another member of the group, he's no longer their moral compass. Sure, people still can rely on his wisdom and point of view, but the dynamic is CLEARLY very different from S1 to S6, and he does accept it in the last few episodes.
I mean, Giles went behind Buffy's back to kill Ben- a successful 'going behind her back' if you want- and will continue to go behind Buffy's back if the situation calls for it in the future.

Basically I don't see growth in this relationship. They fell out, they made up, but it's pretty much broken.

He puts the mission above revenge. That right there, that's is growth. He could have decided to walk away from helping to fight the First because he didn’t wanna be involved with his mother’s killer, or he could have tried to kill Spike again.
Wood knows the stakes so where is he gonna go? How can he outrun the end of the world? He can't so he stays to help fight, but that isn't picking the mission over vengeance since I see no evidence that Wood comes to see Spike as important to the mission. he might've just decided that he can't take him in another fight.

I mean, he literally never interacts with Spike ever again. He's at the school in 'Dirty Girls', Spike isnt there when Wood visits the house in 'Empty Places' and he isn't there when Spike returns to the house in 'Touched'. He certainly would've responded to Spike attacking Faith, right? If he was there he would've gotten involved.
And they share no screen time in the ensuing two episodes. No resolution, no growth.

Spike is my favorite character and I hated that he tried to kill him. But what would you do if you find the person that killed your mother?
It isn't that, exactly, although Wood knew he was doing what The First wanted by trying to kill Spike. So hew as 'supporting evil' by doing things the way he was. The First is opportunist evil so maybe it didn't want Spike dead but it did want dissent in the ranks. Wood knows this and does it anyway

I would also point out that Wood spends the first half of the season being secretive about who he is and what he knows about Buffy and the fight ahead, and then in the episode we all find out his secrets (First Dates) he then hatches another secret agenda; this time to get close to and kill Spike.
Basically the guy is very secretive and not a little manipulative.

Does she have romantic relationship with them? I haven't seen AtS. If so, I'd need to know more to give you a better answer.
'Close to' as in she is buddies with Angel in a healthy way and doesn't think all guys want to get in her pants. But guys she's slept with? Yeah, she dismisses them. Not thinking sex is a big issue is not the same as being emotinally closed off; Faith is capable of opening up to guys in terms of friendship.

But still Pre-Wood and Post-Wood she consistently has no interest in romance with guys. So, good job Wood. I guess some surprises are pretty disappointing.

But if Buffy has a thing for vampires or supernatural men
Hmn, not really. She had a 'thing' for Angel (without knowing he was a vampire) and tried plenty to date normal-seeming guys she liked and was into (Owen, Scott Hope, Parker, Riley) but it always went wrong because of drama. Spike was a whole nother mess due to depression-circumstance.

So I disagree that Buffy has a 'type' on the show. In the comics? Sure she clearly prefers super-powered people.

why is Robin not allowed to be attracted to slayers? We all have a type. Sure, it might the outcome of an Oedipus or Electra complex, but that’s fine
But...its creepy. Robin has a complex hero-worship-y view of his Mom that's gonna bleed out into how how he interacts with slayers. It ain't healthy and he should pick another type.

What does Robin know about Faith? He knows that she’s attractive, self-confident, she’s reformed and has accepted responsibility for her bad actions, she took over the leadership and tried to establish herself as the new authority leader as soon as it happened, she’s good in bed, and few more things.
That isn't much. I can find out more through a half hour date with any rando-girl (um, except the bed-part..). And besides she knows even less about him.

Basically WE the audience know more about each character than they do about each other so this pairing hinges on how WE see them 'cause they don't really interact much. It's lazy writing kinda.

All of these are attractive qualities. Then, why not wanting to get to know her better? What’s wrong with that?
It's shallow. We're told that its meant to be some connection in 'Touched' but from what we see it really isn't. It was simply a 'we all might die tomorrow so let's let off some steam' or whatever.

I don't see entitlement, I see a man trying to get to know a woman that doesn't want to let people in.
But he basically does this by snarking at her; 'you've just gotta have a little Faith', 'no thanks I think I've had my fill'.
What is that if not being butt-hurt that she blew him off?
He acts all bitter and entitled. Then he belittles her to 'get past her defenses'.
But really, I don't even care if it succeeded. Wood should know by now that the ends don't justify the means even if the means are pure Faith hotness.
:p
 
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