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The inspirational Greta Thunberg and the fight for climate change

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Ethan Reigns

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Someone once noted that all the most effective terrorists have been engineers. Certainly Yasser Arafat and Osama bin Laden are examples of being effective, even among those of us who do not endorse their ideals and methods. Those of us who are engineers understand the need to plan a path towards the intended result. People who only protest things are not effective. I would compare them to Don Quixote tilting at windmills.

In order to change policy, you have to present a view of why the status quo is not acceptable, what you want specifically to see changed and new legislation written in a legal form that can be passed into law as written. Political grandstanding, alarmism, virtue signaling and posturing are not substitutes for having a vision of the way forward. You can't convince people to spend money on projects designed to mitigate climate change if they don't see a specific problem and how the proposed expenditure is going to improve the outcome.

BTW something I have no seen here is any mention of the fact that the most devastating environmental decision you can make is the decision to have a child. Children become consumers of energy and generators of garbage and a further blight on the planet. Zero population growth must be an integral part of any climate strategy.
 

Octavia

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Oh my gosh, it just started raining as I was reading this thread! It must be a sign! But as I start to type the rain has stopped :( The news story is a bore, a waste of time and an obvious set up. The media loves to grab kids like this and mould them into what they want to influence the unthinking world with this week. Its happening here with teenagers praising basics cards when they are really another kick in the teeth for the most vulnerable Aussies.

I am reading and learning so much about modern ag practices, one of the major killers of the earth, note - my knowledge is limited to Australia. It is SO bloody obvious why we are having these climate issues. I don't think there is much point in me trying to explain it here, my post will be long and unlikely to be read. I can draw it though :p It is so simple and so basic - you can not keep taking from the earth without giving back. That doesn't mean buying eco friendly bags and going vegan or paperless, it is about changing our ag practices, changing our consumeristic choices and changing life values. There are SO many aspects to this. It is all connected. Where to start is the hardest question.

Where I am the obvious solution is to lift people out of poverty (long term), change agricultural practices and update transportation.

The thought process behind that, if you cannot keep up = Food relief is full of processed packaged crap, supplying the worst sort of shit to people who don't have bins to dispose of the packaging for a start. Poor diet leads to poor health leads to medical costs leads to medical waste. Clean drinking water is a major issue in rural areas (and where do ya think the government wants to settle all the refugees....? in places where the basics are not supplied for the people already there.) We need to encourage modern agriculture to chase quality over quantity, put value on the earth instead of taking it for granted. They must return what they take. They must be looking at sustainable soil instead of the soil mining they practice now. I don't know if the rest of the world knows how big GM crops are now -modified to live in the drought conditions that the destructive farming practices caused in the first place! The trucks of 80's past need to go, the technology is available but there is no incentive for truck drivers to update their vehicles, diesel is still cheap enough. Poisons are used extensively to control weeds that would not occur if biosecurity measures were respected and the land cared for, fertilisers kill everything native but in conjunction with GM pump out mass yields of poor quality in an unsustainable manner to supply to overseas via huge pollution spewing ships. I do not understand how the farmers fail to see the side effects of their chemical use - I live in farmland, the largest trees are all dying before our eyes because of the superphosphates the farmers so freely use. This is all connected to climate. Truthfully I know I can not do a thing to change a thing, and it is so frustrating. It is observable and obvious. Kill the trees and we are all gona die.


On the topic of oceans - Poverty is the leading cause of plastic pollution. While city-folk buy their reusuable water bottles and shopping bags, those in poverty are still required to buy their water as clean water is unavailable any other way. That is just one tiny simplistic example. I cannot believe that everyone gets so blinded by the latest world-saving hashtag and eco friendly product while there are still places in the world that do not meet the most basic of basic human needs. Your $30 water bottle could supply water for a month for a person in poverty. Have a look at Bali, or any of the islands above Australia. They are where all of this crap in the ocean is coming from, yet Coles convinced Aussies the pollution was their fault for using plastic bags...and charged the consumer millions of dollars for reusable bags that break after 3 uses. Plastic bags did mostly end up in the approved landfill - not in the oceans everyone is suddenly concerned about. They are hiding worse truths with promotional content distracting you from the real issues. Did no one else help with beached whales and dolphins in the 90's? We're you just not exposed to that as children? We were. We knew about the polluted ocean then. We rescued enough seabirds stuck in plastic. We spent our weekends on the foreshores and sand dunes regenerating the land destroyed by ungrateful tourists and nursing sick animals. We were rewarded by swimming with dolphins in the shallows and watching the most magestical sunsets over the ocean. The plastic ocean is only popular now cos the media wants it to be. It has been a known issue my entire life. But, The ocean is really, really low on the list of problems for the area I am in. I am currently studying micro organisms that live in the soil - low rainfall means these little guys die. The ocean is still teeming with life - but the soil is dead.


. Take a look at what is happening to the earth. They are now saying all insect will cease to be by the turn of the century, if humans are around to take note.
This is my worry of the day too. There are so many unidentified bugs in my region and they are dying off before they are even discovered! I had a chat with a child who catches bugs in town and I told him one day he could discover a new breed if he keeps at it. His eyes lit up and he was excited to find bugs he no one had ever seen. I have seen some bizarre bugs in my garden, things I cannot identify and I would not be surprised if they have not yet been named. The lack of diversity in the bug populations is a disaster for this county, yet city peep are still fumigating their newly built homes when they see one tiny spider :rolleyes: outrageous. Australia is losing its diversity quicker than any other place on the planet - and they haven't even discovered it all yet.

BTW something I have no seen here is any mention of the fact that the most devastating environmental decision you can make is the decision to have a child. Children become consumers of energy and generators of garbage and a further blight on the planet. Zero population growth must be an integral part of any climate strategy.
I have been reading about antinatalism lately. While I am not as extreme as that, it has valid points. Vegans (in general) confuse the heck out of me - the general excuses I hear are that they have chosen that way to live to save the planet, yet still have children or pets they dress as children, still consume packaged and processed goods and still travel. I guess it Is not an all or nothing thing yet many still dish out pretty harsh judgement to those who choose not to convert. Not all of course, I know some pretty great vegans who do it for health, but they also grow their own produce, reject consumerism and contribute to the community on a whole instead of chasing meateaters on the internet.

A side rant about the driving force behind some of the latest climate awareness stunts - I really have a problem with Animals Australia and PETA, they are doing so much more damage than good, brainwashing people into their beliefs and actually destroying lives and families here. They have started on horse riding so obviously that is going to work me up. They have no understanding of the relationship between animals and humans and by promoting no contact they are promoting death for so many. In being against horse riding, they are also against therapy animals of any kind - please ask your local animal rights organisation their views on pet ownership, you might be surprised how extreme some are. Another cog in the media wheel - they would have you believe farming animals is the worst for the planet but I can assure you, it is not. Farming crops is more damaging to fragile land. I am not just sprouting my mouth on book learning - I live it, I learn it, I embrace the change and seek new survival techniques daily.

If you really care about the environment spend time in it, observe it, learn about it. Most importantly give thanks for it. Your way of life can lead others, there doesn't have to be a fanfare about it.
 

ILLYRIAN

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Lucky you, it didn't start raining here until about 2:45 am and the it was really heavy spitting, so heavy I thought the rats were practising their clog dance routines.
And about the relationship twixt horses and humans, if cars pack up before hybrid cars etc: get going and we are forced to go back to horses, I'd give the humans two decades at tops. Before cars were invented there was a threat to all humanity but then there was only 500 million or so people on this world, with nigh on 8 billion so many more horses would be needed.
With all the fish in the sea on the way out and all insects going to cark it by the turn of the century I hope ABS's asteroid is gonna be big enough to be effective.
 
Octavia
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Just enough rain to make me think some kid was eating corn on the roof

ILLYRIAN

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I like that so many can have such different views and yet still be friends.
 

Octavia

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I haven't been presenting the farmers in a good light, and it is not fair for me to do that as some genuinely are changing their ways and trying to manage sustainable farms to the best of their ability. Some are trying to fix the damage done by those before them and it is not a short street. I have met a few small time sustainable farmers and a few who do it organic (as possible with GM invading their canola). Its not cheap. The larger farms are more profit driven but with that much land to manage it is no wonder.

Mixed farms - sheep and cropping do quite well here. Recently, animal rights activists published the sheep farms addresses publicly, making them a target for extremist. I doubt the live trade news has hit any other country but this is a big deal right here. Animals Australia released video of poorly sheep and bad conditions on the live trading ships. I cannot say if I am for or against live trading but I know for a fact that Animals Australia have done this with the racing industry too. The footage they obtained was of events so shocking - but SO rare. Working with animals comes with dangers and times of trouble, but it is not the norm.
The farms where they are only cropping are doing less well in the environmental protection sense. Making big bucks, but not in a sustainable manner. The animal rights extremists would prefer all farms to ditch their livestock. It is unsustainable for this area to work like that. Do they want farmers to go out of business? Cos that is what is happening. I am not real keen to eat meat grown in a lab - are you?

Hay is extremely expensive right now - its being sent from here over east to places that have now flooded. Trees and inland water attract rainfall, there is not much of that left thanks to modern ag practices. The Murray Darling is in crisis and Townsville has flooded. Over east has been in drought for years, it is no surprise to me that they are now coping the consequences. It is frustrating that they can not see what is right before their eyes, but admittedly I am just as blind in other areas.

Ultimately I only wish I was a farmer haha. I could not do it unless I had some men around for the heavy lifting part of it. I can sprout off the obvious, but would not be able to live it without a few grunt workers and a ton of money. I do have respect for the work they do and have been too harsh on them as a whole. There are more aspects than that to climate change but it is the most obvious thing affected in my region at this time.
 

EarthLogic

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My objection to Greta Thunberg is that she is just saying, "We have a problem, fix it!" with no suggestions of what policies to adopt, what science to study, what engineering to undertake and what specific steps to take.
You do realise that she is a 16 year old schoolgirl, not a geophysicist or climate scientist with PhD, or the boss of an oil company, right? How can you expect her to know what engineering to undertake?

The point of her whole protest wasn't to raise awareness - because everybody knows what's going on even if they choose not to believe it. It was to urge more immediate action from the people and governments who have been dragging their feet on the issue. It's the pace of action that's the problem. As he said herself she wants people to treat the crisis as if it is actually a crisis. As one young girl put it: "I’m not striking because I know how to tackle climate change, I’m striking because I want the people with the power to do something to start addressing it. They need to listen to the scientists who have been warning us about climate change for years – and who understand how best to solve this mess."

I applaud what Greta and the other children are doing - they're using what little power they have to take a stand and make their voices heard. Most of them aren't allowed to vote yet, they don't have billions of dollars in cash to fund new schemes themselves, they're yet to finish their studies and acquire the detailed scientific knowledge with which to create new solutions (but you can bet they will in the near future) - so what else can you expect them to do? I think Greta did brilliantly at Davos - she sat there and pointed the finger at the very billionaire CEOs who have helped perpetuate this crisis and called them out on their bullshit - something most of our politicians and adult influential figures haven't dared to do.

BTW something I have no seen here is any mention of the fact that the most devastating environmental decision you can make is the decision to have a child. Children become consumers of energy and generators of garbage and a further blight on the planet. Zero population growth must be an integral part of any climate strategy.
I really think that this argument doesn't hold up much anymore. It is true that the world's population is too large and we are straining resources because of it, but children can only consume (non-renewable) energy and generate (non-recyclable) garbage if that's all that's available to them. And who is responsible for creating that abundance of availability? It's certainly not the kiddies.

It's an easy argument to make but I fear it's become part of the wider strategy that has over many years pushed the blame and responsibility for environmental problems onto us as individuals. Until now it has all been we're not recycling enough, we're not using the right lightbulbs, we're having babies (the shame!), while the forces of neoliberal capitalism have been telling us to buy more cheap, poor quality stuff and not making it any easier or cheaper to switch to sustainable models of living. It's nonsensical that fruit wrapped in layers of single-use plastic often costs less than fruit bought loose, but it makes a nice little profit for the companies that make that plastic and for the corporations they buy that crude oil from.

Fossil fuel and agribusiness companies have spent vast amounts of time and money deliberately burying the climate change findings that had been reported by their own researchers. They've lobbied hard - and often done so quietly under the radar - for governments to relax proposed environmental policies, or sometimes just drop them altogether. The vast wealth they have amassed - and the possibility of making more - continues to override any true commitment to change. They invest in new energy technologies on the one hand but then turn around and reassure their investors that fossil fuels still have a part to play. (Just last month it was reported that the founders of a new alliance to tackle plastic waste were themselves investing in new plastics factories!). If they really understood the situation they would look upon themselves with horror and admit their very existence is untenable. This won't happen though because self-interest and shamelessness have been passed down through generations almost as virtues within these industries and when combined with an awareness of the existential threat to their hitherto hugely profitable business model, they will do anything to preserve the status quo.

This is what Greta intuitively understands where many others do not, even if she cannot put it in as many words. We as individuals can switch off our lights and buy as many hemp bags as we want but it won't make a dent in CO2 emissions unless the polluting giants who have embedded themselves deeply in our social and economic systems are either forced to change or brought down. In this fight children and young people might just be our only hope. They (as a millenial myself I should say We) are the emerging new workforce, the ones who will eventually replace those who brought about this disaster in the first place.
 
Mr Trick
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I agree!

ILLYRIAN

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either I misread that or I got bored, contemplating that topic written by a person with the name EarthLogic no matter how it reads. So Greta gets others to talk about the subject is of benefit as long as some fact is spoken. Saying no difference can be made by individuals turning off lights makes no benefit is wrong, every little bit helps. The longer we can make the environment last the better for mankind's survival. Making it last longer than the end of the century is hopeful. China had the right idea limiting the population, yet making it zero population growth will not help at all as reducing the number of people on the planet was/ is the only chance.

What has caused the decline of the worlds insects has yet to be revealed but even if 40% of the wrong ones die off many plants will cease to be reborn, Massive food supplies to humans will cease to be, waste will not be eaten, the earth will not be habitable to humans. Add to that the rise in ocean levels. Tidal Waves/ Tsunami's earthquakes and volcanoes will cause problems for mankind.

Will land communication cables cease to be effective and the internet? Lets hope some friendly Aliens take pity on us warmongers. As we happily sing that happy days are here again, and casually forget what we can't fix.
 

Octavia

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they're using what little power they have to take a stand and make their voices heard.
So, in other words, they are chucking a tanty?

Rather than this child screaming about it in the street - she could have gone out and planted some trees, started a community garden or done a report about biodiversity at her local park. She could still scream about her demands while as the media watched if she wanted by the sounds of her PR team.

all that's available to them
Exactly my point on poverty.

And who is responsible for creating that abundance of availability? It's certainly not the kiddies.
Agreed. It is you.

really heavy spitting
I see them as bacteria bombs :D Little asteroid water jets slamming into the ground trying to bury themselves before the heat evaporates them!

(I had a lot of pommie friends who would comment on the huge raindrops and different rain, it makes me wonder how different the UK's atmosphere is)

turning off lights makes no benefit is wrong, every little bit helps.
Agreed. We all need to be aware of our consumption.

Again this is one of those financial things. People with little money are watching the power bill, those who do not have to worry about power bills are not thinking in the same way. I am not passing judgement on that but I just mean the two poles have different attitudes. To use less is a good thing, it leaves space for new inventions.

My neighbour and I compare power bills. He beats me, but not by much! I would guess my laptop use is the extra. My water bill is the lowest in town which leaves them a bit puzzled, but I do push my plants the edge a bit.

What has caused the decline of the worlds insects has yet to be revealed
My guess is on pesticides.

As biodiversity declines, bugs start to stick together for safety in numbers. In plague proportions. Their waste and bodies are not returned to the ground for the bacteria below to feast on. We've already wreaked the world, it is all about survival now - and part of that is returning what we have taken.


but even if 40% of the wrong ones die off many plants will cease to be reborn, Massive food supplies to humans will cease to be, waste will not be eaten, the earth will not be habitable to humans. Add to that the rise in ocean levels. Tidal Waves/ Tsunami's earthquakes and volcanoes will cause problems for mankind.
Food is already an issue. Just look on the boards how many skip food to afford other things. Or skimp on food to save money. Food should be in such abundance there is ample to share. Food security should not be an issue for anyone in the world - just as water should not. Its a whole chain reaction from there.

You say Aliens, I say Angels... Potato, Potato.
 

ILLYRIAN

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The thing about all them groups that go and plant trees, do any of them consider funding extra bushfire fighting trucks? Do they consider how much water is required to extinguish a fire? And then there is the intensity a bushfire can get to. So many things to consider.
 

Octavia

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The thing about all them groups that go and plant trees, do any of them consider funding extra bushfire fighting trucks? Do they consider how much water is required to extinguish a fire? And then there is the intensity a bushfire can get to. So many things to consider.
It is all connected - less dead soil = less dead crap to burn off. Ancient fire techniques are adequate when utilised wisely - cool fires keep the life cycle going, fire is a part of our landscape, especially in Australia. Fighting against the fact we have fires is setting up for wildfires on Black Friday level. Wildlife (or stock in places where wildlife has been decimated) trim the lower branches and keep litter down, while introducing the good bugs back into the cycle via poo. We have lots so many smaller species to feral cats and foxes that the bush is not naturally managed as it was prior to colonisation. We need to remedy that.

Without trees there is no rain, without rain, there is no soil life, without soil life, litter cannot be broken down. Do ya follow? Trees release oxygen - oxygen is life. This is observable science (my favourite kind).

I should note that many people living and working on certain sized blocks in WA are required by law to plant trees on the property. Homes with a tree break survived better in mass fires than those with scattered trees - they can be used wisely. We planted over 2000 on an 8 acre property as the council there required it. Denmark (Western Australia) is bloody beautiful now, full with hobby farms lined with native trees (many subsidised by local government)- it supports wild life and the dampness makes for very fertile soils. A bad day could be, a bad day, but good land management reduces the risk.

I use Australia as an example, not only because I live here and know it, but because the destruction caused by modern lifestyle is recent, has been recorded and has happened at an unprecedented rate. For a visual human reference (This is not meant to offend - any Australian born are warned these photos contain images of since deceased people ).

We took people who resided here before British consumerism from this
12841
12842

To this
12844

Instead of learning how to respect the land, we tried to control it. Humans will never win against mother nature, it is time to start working with her rather than against. Our every action influences change, and every one can do it, with or without the media watching . Screaming about it does not change a thing, DOING does. Everything is connected to another thing, magic does exist if we bothered to look up from the latest iPhone.
 

GraceK

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This is hilarious. Kids just suck huh? They are either just sensitive snowflakes who don’t do anything at all but look at their iPhones and instagram and get butthurt at “social injustice” ....or they are dangerous protesters who start riots in the streets and should be shot for YouTubing for questioning cops. They should keep their heads down and stay in school and not question authority.... but they should also plant trees and open garden centers and test soil and cure cancer...they should join the army at 18 and die for America and kill people ...but when they protest gun violence and stage march for life rallies and encourage people to vote they are little shitheads who don’t know enough about the world and should shut up? They just can’t win can they? Are millennials lazy and entitled ? Are they too involved ? It really seems to depend on what young people are saying. If they are saying guns are cool, trump is great, white People are persecuted, Christians are under attack, climate change is a myth..then wow These Kids are awesome and let’s put them on Esquire and give them a voice!!!! But if they are saying climate change is a big deal, cops keep killing black People and getting away with it, lack of background checks on guns are a problem , FLINT STILL HAS NO CLEAN WATER, and oh yeah , Trump and the republicans are destroying this country, then suddenly, these darn kids should be quiet cause they don’t know anything. Makes perfect sense. It’s not like protests were ever started by young people according to history .🤣🤣🤣🙄🙄🙄 it was always the old white establishment that made a difference.
 
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W
WillowFromBuffy
Amen! It is too bad that by the time they are free of us, they'll be old and jaded themselves.
thetopher
thetopher
Sorry, but this is such a simplistic post.

Mr Trick

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This is hilarious. Kids just suck huh? They are either just sensitive snowflakes who don’t do anything at all but look at their iPhones and instagram and get butthurt at “social injustice” ....or they are dangerous protesters who start riots in the streets and should be shot for YouTubing for questioning cops. They should keep their heads down and stay in school and not question authority.... but they should also plant trees and open garden centers and test soil and cure cancer...they should join the army at 18 and die for America and kill people ...but when they protest gun violence and stage march for life rallies and encourage people to vote they are little shitheads who don’t know enough about the world and should shut up? They just can’t win can they? Are millennials lazy and entitled ? Are they too involved ? It really seems to depend on what young people are saying. If they are saying guns are cool, trump is great, white People are persecuted, Christians are under attack, climate change is a myth..then wow These Kids are awesome and let’s put them on Esquire and give them a voice!!!! But if they are saying climate change is a big *ing deal, cops keep killing black People and getting away with it, lack of background checks on guns are a problem , FLINT STILL HAS NO CLEAN WATER, and oh yeah , Trump and the republicans are destroying this country, then suddenly, these darn kids should shut the * up cause they don’t know anything. Makes perfect sense. It’s not like protests were ever started by young people according to history .🤣🤣🤣🙄🙄🙄 it was always the old white establishment that made a difference.
Well said! I do think people are being quite aggressive and negative towards someone who is basically innocent. Even taking into account the stuff with the book etc... I still don't see how this is a bad thing. A movement is growing. I'm almost 100% sure that Greta herself believes in this stuff. I think we should encourage young people to care and take an active interest in the fate of the world we live in. Even if by some chance Greta herself was just put up to this to promote the book the fall out to it has been positive.
 

GraceK

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Well said! I do think people are being quite aggressive and negative towards someone who is basically innocent. Even taking into account the stuff with the book etc... I still don't see how this is a bad thing. A movement is growing. I'm almost 100% sure that Greta herself believes in this stuff. I think we should encourage young people to care and take an active interest in the fate of the world we live in. Even if by some chance Greta herself was just put up to this to promote the book the fall out to it has been positive.
Seriously. What no one wants to mention is that these teenagers are the ones who are
Gonna be living with it. Me too actually. I’m only 32. My son is 2. We are gonna bear the fallout of climate change. These men and women in power who are in there 60/ and 70s are gonna be dead so of course they don’t care. Mitch McConnell, the devil himself, is not even gonna be around when the shit hits
The fan, and not even most of the old ass electoral college republican voters. So of course they don’t care. It’s use us young people who give a shit !!! The old folks only care about their money and how to bring it to their coffins with them. And damn the world.
 
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Octavia

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Whoa @GraceK was that in reaction to my post? Was the aggression needed? I don't know if anyone is actually following what I am saying but if I did offend please point out the specific places that have hurt your feelings and influenced this reaction. My posts come from a place of experience and care for the environment in the true sense, not in the popularity gaining sense that snaky posts gain so frequently online lately. I try not to put too many words to my post so they are easy to understand but perhaps the tone has not communicated as I intended. I would like to learn how to post without copping that sort of reaction.

FLINT STILL HAS NO CLEAN WATER
That is exactly what I said in my first post. Water is the base of all this. Influencing the water cycle is how we heal.

It wasn't an attack on children, I thought I was being quite clear - it was an attack on consumeristic lifestyle choices. Children learn these choices from adults who model them. It doesn't take much out of the day to be considerate and aware of the environment. Heck, I planted 3 pots of kale today, it took all of 2 minutes and cost nothing.

I have been to rally's in the street before, it didn't take long to notice they were no use. Not to mention the rubbish left behind by those protesting... I learnt that screaming about an issue does not change an issue, those in power are as clueless as you are, lead by example and show them the way.

Sigh, I duno why I bother, it does feel more and more that now one is interested in learning past what school and media feeds them. It is no use screaming in the street about these things without action - even if it is a token action with the media watching. It is better than organising these tantrums.
 

GraceK

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have been to rally's in the street before, it didn't take long to notice they were no use. Not to mention the rubbish left behind by those protesting... I learnt that screaming about an issue does not change an issue, those in power are as clueless as you are, lead by example and show them the way.
So I guess the teachers strike in West Virginia, in 2018, which could be considered a rally, and all the rallies in the 60s, and all the other civil rights protests meant nothing and did shit? 😂 I don’t know about your country, but in America, we actually have a history of getting shit done when we put our minds to it.


England too by the way. Look up the suffragette movement in England and see how many women gave their lives for women’s rights in protests.
 
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thetopher

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Not all types of protests are helpful or particularly useful. Some are seen and dismissed as stunts (PETA is a good example of this, now they want to ban woolen clothing...), some start out well and turn violent, some just don't have a particularly clear message.

This seems like a stunt, but the girl got a platform at a summit out of it so whatever.

This is hilarious. Kids just suck huh? They are either just sensitive snowflakes who don’t do anything at all but look at their iPhones and instagram and get butthurt at “social injustice” ....or they are dangerous protesters who start riots in the streets and should be shot for YouTubing for questioning cops.
Obviously they can be both and many different things in between, after all we're talking about a generation of young people here.
You have those who call for 'safe spaces' segregation, those that attempt to suppress free speech with violent protests, those that riot and destroy property such as Antifa.
And then you have those who want to do something constructive that doesn't impinge on someone else's rights.

they should join the army at 18 and die for America and kill people
So people shouldn't use sweeping statements to define a group, and then you go and use a sweeping statement to define a group? Yep, anyone who signs up to the military just wants to kill people. Good grief.

but when they protest gun violence and stage march for life rallies and encourage people to vote they are little shitheads who don’t know enough about the world and should shut up?
I've seen plenty of kids in America who got loads of positive attention and unchallenged platform when it came to stopping gun violence, and most liberal marches get almost universal positive media attention/coverage whatever happens.

If they are saying guns are cool, trump is great, white People are persecuted, Christians are under attack, climate change is a myth..then wow These Kids are awesome
Unless of course a Native American is aggressively beating a drum in you face, and then you should automatically be doxed, threatened with death/beatings, have your school closed and labeled as a little rascist for just standing there as somebody invades your personal space. And by the time the actual truth comes out the media has moved on to other things.

Sorry, but that's just one recent example of young people of both political persuasions being attacked unreasonably, its not as skewed as you seem to believe.

But if they are saying climate change is a big ****ing deal, cops keep killing black People and getting away with it, lack of background checks on guns are a problem
Your're lumping so many different issues together, throwing in BLM with climate change advocates.
That isn't particularly helpful given how lax BLM is with the truth/accuracy and how slow then tend to 'kinda' denounce demonstrations (and riots) that call for cop killings, or indeed supporters that have killed cops.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
There are many reactionaries as well as progressives among millennial and gen Zs. However, if we care about the future, we cannot antagonise the young, because they will outlive us in the end. If we believe we have any wisdom to impart, we must be able to offer it without forcing it upon them.
 
Octavia
Octavia
Very insightful, I'd love to learn how to make my tone appealing to those open to learning.

Octavia

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
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Sineya
Still get notifications when logged out, heh. I guess it is better for me to confront this than ruminate all night (i cant help my mental weakness and i forgive you for the same @GraceK). You post set off anxiety in me - that my worth and contribution is nothing. Perhaps I can clarify why I am so passionate about this issue.

I believe change starts with our personal choices.

I changed my lifestyle. Is this all for nothing? Should I ditch my volunteer work and contributions to food relief and scream in the street instead? Should I tell the kids to stop their garden efforts and yell about the unfairness of their poverty instead? Will screamz of awareness feed the homeless and reduce use? A taste of my life...






This was all grown in my garden, by myself. It was all shared with my community. The spare donated to food relief at the closest regional centre. I live below the national poverty line and this is my contribution. Imagine what those with funds could do.

I have influenced hundreds of lives in my volunteer work. I don' t need a media pat on the back for it, but it'd be nice not to cop abuse for sharing my knowledge and experience.
 
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WillowFromBuffy
You're belittling others and asking for validation at the same time. It's not the best way to inspire sympathy. There is no one single right way to live one's life. You do you and let them do them.
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