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The inspirational Greta Thunberg and the fight for climate change

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WillowFromBuffy

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I do not know how to do that, @HoppyHippy. We can only do our best, and hope the young have the wisdom to separate the good things we teach them for the bad things.
 

Octavia

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Which parts were belittling @WillowFromBuffy ? I think the tone read is not as I intended (or how it reads in my head). Please help me see where I can learn to communicate this better, if what i have shared is not appropriate. My education comes from experience and I am not trained in language. This is why I said i could draw it better in my first post.

I am a person who learns via doing (ie horseriding) so i thought there were others like me. I know actions influence the non verbal. Maybe that is not practiced worldwide? Could it be, should it be?
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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Which parts were belittling @WillowFromBuffy ? I think the tone read is not as I intended (or how it reads in my head). Please help me see where I can learn to communicate this better, if what i have shared is not appropriate. My education comes from experience and I am not trained in language. This is why I said i could draw it better in my first post.
If you refer to other people's political work as 'screaming,' then they will feel belittled and misunderstood. If you think there is a gap in you people's perspective, then you need to be very diplomatic about how you communicate that, otherwise they will just ignore you. We also need to see the good things that young people bring. We have more practice than them, so we should be careful about feeling too superior. When I teach, I try to keep in mind that one of the little smartasses may be the next Einstein or Noam Chomsky or whatever. Most of them will grow up to be smarter and wiser than me, anyway.

I do think you make many good points. Our focus is often too global. If we were able to focus more on ourselves and our community, we would probably be better people. There is too much distance between us and the issues we care about. If I consume less, I will not be able to observe a positive effect in the climate. When you do work in your community, you can see and feel that it matters.
 

Taake

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you need to be very diplomatic about how you communicate that, otherwise they will just ignore you.
In regard to this, nightshade already warned about not getting personal but any more cursing at others or personal insults in this thread, will lead to it being closed. People are passionate about this topic, but as the quote above suggest, an agitated tone rarely results in anyone listening to you. All caps writing is considered screaming, let’s keep that in mind.

If you cannot discuss this topic without resorting to foul language or insulting others, then I suggest taking a breather before posting and considering what it is you want to achieve with your post.

And let’s try to keep the tone polite in the karma comments as well.
 

Octavia

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I do think you make many good points.
Made good points in the "wrong" language. Therefore deserve a scolding? Maybe the brain injury is limiting my understanding as to why an abusive post gets so much support, but my "good points" are largely over-looked because I used descriptive words and personal experience.

So I tried to show in the hope of mutual understanding. And that is belittling others lives...? I don't have a large vocab, I couldn't afford to stay in uni and eat. That isnt to invoke sympathy, it is a fact of my life. I feel that is very often misunderstood on BB. Its why I keep rage quitting when people try to "correct" my values based on life experience with Nature. I hate sympathy directed my way for things I don't feel need it. My line on poverty was a fact, not to ask for * hugs * or gain sympathy. If it did trigger guilt - maybe you can ask yourselves why? I was trying to SHOW how much one person can contribute, simply with a bit of dirt and water. Without a media circus and book deal.

When I teach
My past students did not communicate via language, I am disabled, I taught others who are disabled. We all run in our circles. Animals communicate via body language. I speak that fluently. I teach by doing, by showing, by leading. I don't see that as incorrect, just alternative.

I was shocked by the reaction to what I was trying to convey, but I am feeling much less distressed about this now. Those who are blocked are not open to see past their limited perceptions. Thanks for helping me understand that again. I feel fine about being me again after working through it. :)

The tone of this post is at least 3 octaves lower than the last few - just to clarify.

I can sleep now and tomorrow I go to the hippy town to shop at the independent growers. A whole town where most support each other to live in an environmentally sustainable and aware way. I wish I could show you all what a cool place it is, and how life for all can be inhanced, not restricted, by your personal freedom in choice.
 
Mr Trick
Mr Trick
Sorry if you feel you have been ganged up in this thread or treated unfairly. Things have gotten a bit out of hand sadly. None of my comments were aimed at you. Just making general point.
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WillowFromBuffy

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So I tried to show in the hope of mutual understanding. And that is belittling others lives...?
You called the object of this discussion a child screaming in the street and chucking a tanty. That is belittling. You know that, because you know you would not like someone describing you in such terms.

I think it is admirable that you are so invested in your community. It sounds like you are doing good work. However, there are other people who are trying to make a positive difference in other ways. When young people decide to make a stand for something, we should try to respect that and not dismiss it off hand.

I want to make it clear that I am not a rolemodel in any way. I take little social responsibility, and I am too self involved and impatient to be diplomatic with people. However, I do try my best with young people, because they are not set yet. It is in them that hope lie.
 

Ethan Reigns

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A lot of the acrimony about global warming came from what was seen as distortion of the truth by the originators of the "crisis mentality". namely the East Anglia University Climate Research Unit. If you run a group like that, you don't get money by saying, "everything is peachy, keep doing what you are doing", you have to raise the spectre of imminent demise. And the CRU that was funded at $6 million per year got its funding raised to $19 million per year as a result, meaning some people claimed they were biased towards alarmism. Some people objected to what they considered a dirty trick - starting their climate charts from the 1600's and showing a monotonically rising temperature rather than including data from before and showing the middle ages as the "Little Ice Age" rather than the norm. This is where a lot of the objection comes from. This is why I mentioned the Greenland settlements before.

I think that in a civilization dominated by scientific and engineering pursuits, we should make it impossible to bypass studying math, physics and chemistry, even for an arts degree. Some environmental changes are worthwhile like China closing coal-fired electric generation as the three hydroelectric power dams on the Yangtse River come on line. Some initiatives have made matters worse such as the conversion from Freon 12 to Freon 134a in air conditioning. If the hole in the ozone layer started in Antarctica, how do you account for the fact that the atmosphere from the northern and southern hemispheres only trade 0.5% of their atmosphere per year and 95% of the refrigeration is installed in the northern hemisphere? Shouldn't the hole have appeared in the arctic long before the Antarctic? Freon 12 was chosen due to its efficiency and there is an efficiency penalty for moving to R134a.

Critical thinking skills are not a luxury in a world where people consume large amounts of energy and clear cut trees and leave everything to market forces. It should be impossible to opt out of understanding technology and its scientific basis because it is too easy for people to be led in the wrong direction. Our educational systems are trying to purge any trace of critical thinking because they are part of a political hierarchy that does not want people to examine their circumstances or leadership too closely.
 

Buffy Summers

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Nice post ER :)

People need to speak realistically, based on facts, or it all comes off as just as you said alarmism. The world ending in ten years is not supported by fact. That changes need to be made, is. But change needs to be made rationally. Closing every coal mine tomorrow isn't going to solve the problem - you cannot put that many people out of work. Likewise there needs to be a viable alternative, which is something that can be worked towards. Nuclear power could do it, but many in the climate change community don't want that used. But then you have the example of the solar farm they are creating in my state. It's half the size of Manhattan and it was forest until they cut down all the trees and cleared the land to build it. What's the environmental impact of that, when it goes to a global scale? And so much conversation centers around the US when countries like China pour pollution into the air and water with impunity. Nothing is going to be achieved until those countries are held to account. Which IS something that can be done right now.

It's not going to happen overnight - and people who don't look at facts and who won't be realistic just devalue the strength of the argument.

Edit:

And it's hard to see a kid like this as a hero rather than someone who wanted publicity, because that's such a part of our world now. I agree with HoppyHippy, protesting isn't as valuable as actually doing something, making change happen. Also I don't think it's that young people today don't care, I think it's that they grew up in a time of instant gratification, where it wouldn't occur to them that they need to actually look deeper into what someone tells them, or what they see on tv, and see if it's actually true or not. They can't trust what they're being told, but they don't realize that or they don't want to because now anyone who is a contrarian is muzzled, ridiculed, fired, attacked. And they aren't stupid, they see that.
 
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Octavia

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You called the object of this discussion a child screaming in the street and chucking a tanty. That is belittling. You know that, because you know you would not like someone describing you in such terms.
May I explain this from my point of view? I am using informal conversation, an observational description with an Australian infelction.

Can I offer you a translation with example? Young horses will sometimes make a fuss in frustration. At a show, this will get all eyes on them as they squeal and buck and carry on. Everyone will look at the horse, and everyone will have a little laugh at its baby tantrum. A good leader would give the horse a smack on the bum, tell it to go forward and make it work. If it has work with forward momentum, its got no time to fuss about. Once it knows its job, it has no interest in tantrums.

I hang around a lot of old cockies at the pub. We talk in in Aussie colloquialisms. What I see here is not incorrect use of language, but an intolerance to informal language. If I had known what I had done wrong, I would not be asking for clarification. This is exactly what happened in the gay debates and this is not an issue I want to be misunderstood as that was. I am starting to feel more confident in my opinions as this thread has made me realise that there are few open to learning and fewer open to understanding.

I have been pulled up for acting in a bratty manner plenty of times. If its true, its true. Name it and help me carry on. Don't just sit around and applaud it. Maybe that just comes from the sort of people I interact with offline. I type like I speak, and I speak local language. It can be fun to learn about if it is not judged in the wrong tone. In saying Greta was "chucking a tanty" I was observing her behaviour with the descriptive language I am most familiar with.



I think it is admirable that you are so invested in your community. It sounds like you are doing good work. However, there are other people who are trying to make a positive difference in other ways. When young people decide to make a stand for something, we should try to respect that and not dismiss it off hand
I think respect should go both ways. If I am middle aged, I still have 30 years left on the planet, I get a say too. Children are not the only ones who have the ability to learn.

I used example to show my learning. Young people do not have to waste time doing the same things we did since we see how ineffective and outdated they are on this particular matter. The climate action starts with our own choices.

I found another article that showed where she has used herself as an example for others - that is more admirable to me than skipping school every friday. I will link this article at the bottom.


I want to make it clear that I am not a rolemodel in any way. I take little social responsibility, and I am too self involved and impatient to be diplomatic with people. However, I do try my best with young people, because they are not set yet. It is in them that hope lie.
So anyone other than young people have no hope? That's just upside down for me. We lead their hope with our own.

I have also used examples from my life in this thread to show where I have supported young people in their climate awareness.

Perhaps what I should do is put my opposition after the good points? Because your not arguing what I say, you're opposing how I say it. It shows me the current dynamic of this site, and that humans behavioural nature creeps into the online space. I have learnt something, because I am open to learning.

will lead to it being closed.
I suspect some would prefer it that way so they are not challenged.

not making it any easier or cheaper to switch to sustainable models of living.
So, things are different in my country (which is actually more similar to Sweden than you might think). Wide scale change is slow but it has been going here for many years. We have had a solar incentives for home owners - install solar panels, and sell your excess power back to the grid. Windfarms have been powering half the city since 2001. Wave energy is being tested for output. All of these things are little fixes, that are being implemented. No one thing can cover all of our energy needs, we learnt that from fossil fuels. To be sustainable, we must share the load. I did not know there was a single western country sitting on their hands over this.


who brought about this disaster in the first place.
Without this "disaster" we would not have the technology we have now.

You do realise that she is a 16 year old schoolgirl, not a geophysicist or climate scientist with PhD, or the boss of an oil company, right? How can you expect her to know what engineering to undertake?
Just a question, what is in her book and her speeches? Can someone clarify, is she releasing a book, and will she be off setting its footprint? Can someone link to where she has inspirationally addressed this topic. Is she just saying -

"I’m not striking because I know how to tackle climate change, I’m striking because I want the people with the power to do something to start addressing it. They need to listen to the scientists who have been warning us about climate change for years – and who understand how best to solve this mess."
Because I would not put all of our hope and trust in scientists (who are funded in many different ways) as Buffy and Ethan point out. Science can be interpreted in different ways. Any way if you pay a scientist enough. There are other aspects to healing the world than just what science is limited to.


In this article, she uses her choices to lead by example -

Thunberg decided not to travel by plane due to the fumes commercial jets emit into the atmosphere.
I completely support and applaude that.

What I don't applaud is this

she vowed to continue her strike every Friday.
Which encouraged this -
School students in Australia were one of the first groups to mobilise. In November 2018, students in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Canberra and Hobart skipped school to lobby the government to take meaningful action on climate change.
Hundreds of students lined up outside Parliament House demanding to speak to Prime Minister Scott Morrison and senior members of parliament demanding urgent action on climate change.
That is bratty behaviour, turning up and screaming to be heard with no actual demands besides "Do something" without themselves doing anything. The government here is doing something, it has been doing something since before this kid was born. The government is doing all that it knows to do at this stage. For example - our government offers grants to community groups over a wide range of community services, including ethical activity, poverty, water and energy reduction services, it is begging for ideas. The biggest problem is getting people in the community interested in challenging and changing their convenient consumeristic ways. Imagine getting people to engage with how they are continuing to cause this issue with their own selfish actions.

"I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day. We owe it to the young people, to give them hope," she said.
I also do not see this as a great message to be spreading around the world. This is where the science and spiritual collide. As I have mentioned, everything is connected. If we see hope, we feel hope. If we see fear, we feel fear.

And that brings me to this
they will just ignore you
When I speak to a person, they can walk away (its yet to happen offline). Now in a social media sense, people can block and ignore opinions that challenge their own - creating info bubbles that limit expansion beyond what is comfortable for the user.

There is no need to fear and panic, the worst damage has already been done. No use crying over spilt milk. Now is the time to clean it up, to make good choices and return what we have taken. Each one of our choices influences the quality of life we live, for me that means living ethically for the balance and good of the earth - there is far more to earth than children.
 

Taake

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You do realise that she is a 16 year old schoolgirl, not a geophysicist or climate scientist with PhD, or the boss of an oil company, right? How can you expect her to know what engineering to undertake?
If only there were schools where she could go and learn these things.

More seriously - I dislike this type of hiding behind her age. She’s not posting an opinion on BB or FB, she’s demanding a global stage and the ears of people in power. Arguably, with that stage, she should be informed, not intuitive, on her position. She seems to have some time to read up on it too.

So, I don’t care that she’s 16. Or if she was 5 or 95. Having feelings about a hot summer and deciding to say ”fix this” does really show her age though.

And considering that she started with the goal of getting the attention of Swedish politicans, who want Sweden to become a green super power by 2030 or some such, I’d say she’s not even informed about what people are already doing about it.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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I hang around a lot of old cockies at the pub. We talk in in Aussie colloquialisms. What I see here is not incorrect use of language, but an intolerance to informal language. If I had known what I had done wrong, I would not be asking for clarification.
I never called your language 'incorrect' or anything to to that effect. I have not told you to change anything. If you want to call people out for what you see as tantrums or compare them to horses, then go ahead. You have my blessing. My only point is that if you insist on shooting from the hip, then you set the tone for the discussion that follows and people may choose to respond in kind.

If you think my language is lifeless and sterile, then maybe that is because I am unable to use my vernacular here. I use many colloquialisms in my everyday language. It does not come from any kind of prejudice against regional dialects or informal language. I just do not have a dialect of my own, because I learned English in a classroom. If I was going to adopt a more informal tone, I would not know which dialect to go for, and it would just be a disingenuous affectation.
 

Octavia

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It wasn't written in a mean spirited or belittling way - it was an acknowledgement of aimless baby behaviour with my daily language. Imagine the tone more like a casual conversation, as that is how it was intended.

Humans are animals and behave more like them than some like to believe. I don't understand getting caught up in language. I practice what I preach because actions speak louder than words.
 

ILLYRIAN

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I only spout what has been on the ABC news, as has been said climate change has started several countries have been affected by rising waters, a couple of them are liable to go under in the next decade. Given all the other problems when they are combined life in 80 years is not looking to good, to state that I considered:
The over population of the planet
The continued use of fuels that eventually cause warmer air temp and water temp.
The extinction of 40% of insects by the end of the century.
Some claims of the end of the planet are probably and nothing to do with me, I'm only concerned about the life of human beings on the planet.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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It wasn't written in a mean spirited or belittling way - it was an acknowledgement of aimless baby behaviour with my daily language.
There is no nice way to say "aimless baby behaviour." If you feel so utterly superior to this 16 year old, then you can go ahead and say that, but other people may wish to take you to task for it. It is called having the courage of your convictions, something Greta Thunberg has in spades.
I don't understand getting caught up in language. I practice what I preach because actions speak louder than words.
I can't hear the sound of your actions from over here, however loud you think they are. I can only see the words you type.
 

Octavia

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I can only see the words you type.
I typed examples, with pictures ;)

You added the superior afflection. I used observation of behaviour in my native tone. I don't think you're picking up what I am putting down. This has nothing to do with the topic, it is your intolerance to language styles outside of elitist circles.

Look at my meaning. She is doing what baby animals do when they are not lead in what to do.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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This has nothing to do with the topic, it is your intolerance to language styles outside of elitist circles.
I don't know what kind of circles you think I walk in. I normally speak a low status dialect, but when I speak English, I generally use the standard forms. It's not like I can start speaking like your Australian drinking buddies. I'm not Australian. And tanty/tantrum means pretty much the same no matter how you spell it.
Look at my meaning. She is doing what baby animals do when they are not lead in what to do.
I am pretty sure I can understand you, and you can go shout this from the rooftops for all I care. However, Thunberg would probably dismiss you just as easily as you do her.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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You're belittling others and asking for validation at the same time. It's not the best way to inspire sympathy. There is no one single right way to live one's life. You do you and let them do them.
No, she really isn't. Don't colour her words with your substandard interpretation. "Inspire sympathy"? What the hell are you on about? We really don't require a dime store guru here, for the record. And the pompous, insulting tone of your post really grates. If you actually have something of worth to say, perhaps you shouldn't have your nose in the air at the same time.

I am pretty sure I can understand you, and you can go shout this from the rooftops for all I care. However, Thunberg would probably dismiss you just as easily as you do her.
Might I suggest an English refresher course? Because I don't believe ANYONE would willfully be this obtuse. Of course, I could be mistaken.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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Lol. If you think I speak only nonsense, then feel free to ignore me. And if there is really a place where they will pay me a dime for my pellets of wisdom, I think I'll rather go there.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

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Ah, I see. You don't care if the attention is negative or positive...you just want attention.

We both know that your remarks to @HoppyHippy were the result of your not liking what she said on my profile post. I was wondering how long it would take you to retaliate; in a passive aggressive manner, of course. #Predictable
 
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WillowFromBuffy

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We both know that your remarks to @HoppyHippy were the result of your not liking what she said on my profile post. I was wondering how long it would take you to retaliate; in a passive aggressive manner, of course. #Predictable
I was not aware that HoppyHippy has been slagging me off. Also, I have not accused her of anything worse than describing Thunberg in a less than flattering manner. I have not made a single dig at her Australian colloquialisms. I like colloquialism, but I do not use them that often in English, because English is not my everyday language.
 
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