• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:
    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!
    2. Twelve thousand people can't be wrong.
    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.
    4. See 1 through 3.
    Come on, register already!

The War On Drugs

Ayko

Buffyverse Ambassador
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
318
Likes
342
Location
Canada now located in Germany
#1
Throughout the 1800s, the use of recreational drugs flourished legally alongside the industrial and literary revolution being distributed safely by drug stores/pharmacies. Towards the end of that century, through World War 1, and in the decades that followed, recreational drugs were banned (from public consumption).

Coincidentally, following the 1800s and a century of peace came the 1900s and a century of open (and closed) wars including ‘the war on drugs’ initiated by the USA in the 1980s. Since then, many countries have begun adopting acceptance of medicinal marijuana as legalization and decriminalization of many recreational drugs becomes the norm around the globe. However, most countries do not allow the media to report their changes on an international level. The USA wanted to be a global leader in tolerance of recreational drugs immediately following their (lost) war on drugs. As it stands, cannibis and other rec drugs are still illegal at the federal level while local laws permit medicinal and even legal recreational use in over half the country. Then, on May 24, 2017, Vermont Governor, Phil Scott, vetoed a bill that would have legalized marijuana recreationally in Vermont. Are we altogether on this? In Portugal, since 2001, all drugs are legal. Canada promised to fully legalize cannibis by Spring 2017 which is almost over?! Most eastern (European and Asian) countries now allow personal possession of anywhere from 1-2 grams to 20 or more of various rec drugs such as cocaine, crystal meth, and marijuana.

Not quite all, though, especially poor countries.

In 2016, Rodrigo Duterte became president of the Philippines. Since then he has promised to eradicate drugs from his country and has had his forces kill about 10,000 citizens (official number) to over 50,000 (unofficial), many done by a vigilante group, Davao Death Group, to which Duterte has often admitted having connections even though they target street children and other lost drug addicts of the system. Keep in mind that about 80 percent of rec drug use there is marijuana. Duterte did promise to focus on personalities of influence involved in drugs which added up to many mayors and other lower level politicians nobody has heard of (except in their local towns maybe). Not one celebrity or commercial name, though! The president has also encouraged citizens to murder drug dealers and drug users themselves.

A few months after Duterte took power and the death toll was already in the thousands, President Barack Obama cancelled his visit after being called the ‘son of a whore’ by Duterte. At a press conference on September 30, 2016, on his arrival in Davao City after a two-day official visit in Vietnam, Duterte appeared to make a comparison between the Drug War and The WW2 Holocaust. He said that ‘Hitler massacred three million Jews. Now there are three million drug addicts. I’d be happy to slaughter them.’ Mostly marijuana users!

At the beginning of October, a senior police officer told The Guardian that ‘special ops’ official police death squads had been operating, each consisting of 15 police officers. The one officer said that he had personally been involved in killing 87 suspects and described how the corpses had their head wrapped in masking tape with a cardboard placard labeling them as a drug offender so that the killing would not be investigated or they were dumped at the roadside as ‘salvage’ victims. Police killing drug dealers/users is rewarded (8000-15,000 pesos) as opposed to bringing them into custody under arrest (for trial) alive with no reward.

Duterte: ‘The human rights (defenders) say I kill. If I say: 'Okay, I'll stop', they will multiply. When harvest time comes, there will be more of them who will die. Then I will include you among them because you let them multiply.’ Amnesty International Philippines stated that Duterte was ‘inciting hate towards anyone who expresses dissent on his war against drugs.’ The National Alliance Against Killings Philippines stated: ‘His comment - that human rights is part of the drug problem and, as such, human rights advocates should be targeted too - can be interpreted as a declaration of an open season on human rights defenders’.

Some political supporters of Dutarte have proposed to lower the legal age of criminal responsibility from 15 to 9 years of age and, with that, bring back capital punishment.

Although China and Taiwan have both stated that such tactics would not be right for their countries, they did give their support for Duterte’s campaign and methods. More recently, Duterte jokingly remarked to military soldiers that they may rape women with impunity. Also, President Donald Trump has called Duterte to compliment him on his campaign. I could go on and on...
Philippine Drug War - Wikipedia

In any case, it is obvious that our state of maturity on an evolutionary scale (regarding drugs, war, murder, rape, and anarchy) is uglier than ever…and that is only slightly touching upon the last 120 years or so.

It seems to me that we cannot handle drugs on any scale and history offers the proof! It is not a war against drugs, it is the fact that we don't stop with war ('cause we/leaders are) on drugs. Any thoughts?

(sorry for the long post...it drives my wife (and therefore me) totally crazy!)
 

HowiMetdaSlayer

Occasionally, I am callous and strange.
Joined
Dec 10, 2015
Messages
3,082
Likes
3,634
Location
midwest
#2
To be fair in the 'old days' they also used morphine & heroin as cough medicine, cocaine was sold in drug stores (and even in soda/pop) & even radium water as a health drink! :eek: o_O
 
Ayko
Ayko
Yes, legally and responsibly controlled out of the reach of kids and problems during that century of peace.
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
Err, Heroin and Morphine are used in hospitals to fight serious illnesses. Some drugs were okay to Americans, where does the saying about Coca Cola being the real thing come from?

Blair

Vamp Blair
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Messages
1,719
Likes
1,348
Age
28
Location
Western Australia
Sineya
#3
In any case, it is obvious that our state of maturity on an evolutionary scale (regarding drugs, war, murder, rape, and anarchy) is uglier than ever…and that is only slightly touching upon the last 120 years or so.

It seems to me that we cannot handle drugs on any scale and history offers the proof! It is not a war against drugs, it is the fact that we don't stop with war ('cause we/leaders are) on drugs. Any thoughts?
People are always going to do drugs. Earliest recording of drugs was 5000BC. People will always want to use drugs of some description to escape from reality. If something is banned, a drug user isn't going to stop using it. But if it's legalized with certain restrictions in place, then we reduce the amount of potential harm.

There are many drug users out there who cope perfectly fine and can benefit use from drugs, for example people with epilepsy using cannabis oil. Ritalin used for ADHD patients is essentially legalized speed.

An interesting case was the American Vietnam veterans which a high percentage would use cocaine on a regular basis. Around 20% said they felt addicted to cocaine on returning to America. The government set up a detox program for a lot of returning soldiers. After the detox program (which ran for two weeks) only 1% felt addicted. Keep in mind that around 80% of the soldiers over there were using an illegal drug.

Ayko: Yes, legally and responsibly controlled out of the reach of kids and problems during that century of peace.
Cocaine was literally in Coke and sold to everyone.
Also not sure why you call it the century of peace... We had two World Wars...
 
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
5,482
Likes
4,275
Location
Canada
Sineya
#5
You have a choice between the American and the Portuguese way of handling drugs.

Portugal legalized recreational drugs. Since they could come from anywhere and there was no legal risk, prices were depressed and there was no money in it. And since no one had to establish connections to organized crime to get what they wanted, organized crime withered on the vine.

The American way was to follow what they did during Prohibition which was to disrupt the supply chain and put as many people in prison as possible. But the only thing that prohibition did was reduce the availability and therefore raise the value of alcohol. If you have five dealers with $1 million in drugs and you destroy one of these dealers and his inventory, you have four dealers sitting on $1.25 million with a possibility of a real shortage that would double or triple the prices. For a long time, drug cartels have put up with police raids because it means more money for the ones who were not raided. Every two years, there is another crop of political hopefuls who think the war on drugs is a certain way to get more votes, so no one ever opts for what is effective. The government is addicted to drug interdiction programs to the extent of $40 billion a year for the past 40 years, none of which has had any effect. As Einstein once said, the definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result. And there is no moral imperative to get rid of drugs; if someone wants to risk death from a heroin overdose, maybe we have no right to force an intervention. And the moral question of what a country should do should also consider the effectiveness of the measures they are considering. If they are ineffective as in the American example then there is no moral reason to continue. The reason this does continue is that politicians of certain stripes can count on support from a Puritannical part of the populace that is either too stupid to look at the results or too ready to say, "We have to do something!"
 

Ayko

Buffyverse Ambassador
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
318
Likes
342
Location
Canada now located in Germany
#6
Cocaine was literally in Coke and sold to everyone.
Also not sure why you call it the century of peace... We had two World Wars...
That was both in the 1800s, not 1900s.
 
President Duterte tells soldiers fighting in Mindanao, where he proclaimed martial law earlier this week, that he will accept responsibility for abuses they commit, and jokes that "...if you had raped three, I will admit it, that's on me."
 
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
So WW1 and WW2 was in the 1800s what have you been smoking?

Ayko

Buffyverse Ambassador
Joined
Feb 2, 2017
Messages
318
Likes
342
Location
Canada now located in Germany
#8
Coke had cocaine in until 1929, and the World Wars were both in the 1900's... so....

I will reply more later on. But with @Ethan Reigns on this one.
I don't mean to correct you as a 'know-it-better' but, to be accurate, the Inventor of Coca-Cola, John Pemberton called for five ounces of coca leaf per gallon of syrup which is quite a significant dose. In 1891, new owner Asa Candler claimed his formula (altered extensively from Pemberton's original) contained only a tenth of this amount. Coca-Cola once contained an estimated nine milligrams of cocaine per glass. (For comparison, a typical dose or 'line' of cocaine is 50–75 mg.) In 1903, it was removed from the formula. After 1904, instead of using fresh leaves, Coca-Cola started using 'spent' leaves which are the leftovers of the cocaine extraction process with levels of cocaine that amounted to next to nothing. It was an advertising gimmick.
Coca-Cola - Wikipedia
 
HoppyHippy
HoppyHippy
Yeah my knowledge was it was a gimmick too. The kids in the 90's thought it was a great joke also.
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
What is this, Wikipedia says the truth, amazing! Believe that and you'll bel9ieve anything, oh, sorry, I see you do.

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#10
I'll willingly die in battle against psychiatric drugs.

The daily misery of benzodiazepine illness far eclipses the horror of cancer. That is a message I want to burn into your brain and your heart so that you never forget it.
Benzodiazepine Information Coalition


I'd hope I live to see the Doctors hang. Although maybe giving them 'a taste of their own medicine' would be a fate worse than death.
 
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
I'd have you disagree with you there, saying one serious illness is worse than another serious illness when both illnesses are seriously bad is daft.

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#12
I start to wonder, do people think these meds do no harm in old age? Do people expect to be on them in their 60's and 70's? Cos withdrawal then is a lot less fun. And more die. I've lost half a dozen elderly supports through death related to medication, another 4 or 5 to dementia. I've been in private clinics with 85 year old veterans who havent a clue what is going on - patients had to stop these people walking aimlessly into the street, nurses didnt care, and when it was reported the patient was drugged. I know times are changing. Cold turkey withdrawal is something I will never support having been through it so often. But many doctors will not support a safe plan to cease the meds - and I am talking specifically against psychiatric meds. If they are so willing to dish out meds they should also be willing to support those who find the side effects too much to bare and cease them. Currently the advice they give out (specifically in my country) is deadly.

I've lost friends to suicide on the come down from benzos. I lost 3 friends as an 18 year old - suicide, all were medicated and under hospital care. Hospital didnt stop them leaving or jumping off the bridge, it didnt stop Bailey hanging herself after taking 2 mg of ativan on doctors advice, it certainly didnt stop Rita from murdering her twin babies, then trying to kill herself, shes now locked up for life, a seroquel vegetable, one of her worst fears back in 2006. On SSRI withdrawal - on doctors advice, whilst breast feeding... I mean c'mon, there are far too many dodgy doctors not being held responsible for the damage they are doing. I want to fight to change that. Responsible medication prescription, monitoring and advice. Acknowledgement that suicide is a side effect of SSRI medication on the box would also be a major step forward in this country. I am fighting for that.

Meth addicts get more support in this country than psych patients who want to be med free - does that sound weird to anyone else??
 
Last edited:
Bluebird
Bluebird
It's frustrating that prescribed drugs are sold as 'good drugs'...
Professor Walsh
Professor Walsh
My impression is that the psych care here is far safer than in your country. There is a very clear focus on medication being only a part of the therapy, not an answer in itself.
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
And yet many folk refer to them as doctors, I refer to them as quacks. A term many of them hate, so guess why they don't like me.
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
3,107
Likes
2,487
Black Thorn
#13
I support the legalization of all drugs except marijuana.

Liberal college students living off their rich parents' trust funds already get to have everything, such as burning American flags, doing gender studies, and beating up right wingers on the streets. They don't need marijuana as their entertainment. Ban marijuana so they can be in jail sometimes since they won't be arrested otherwise, even if they join antifa to burn cars and stuff.:D
 

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#14
@Professor Walsh : My impression is that the psych care here is far safer than in your country. There is a very clear focus on medication being only a part of the therapy, not an answer in itself.

Thats what they sell in Australia too. And having been a part of the "system" for over a decade, I can tell you, it is utter crap here. Many Therapist dont accept that medication is the root issue. I, myself was given an SSRI at 18 years old on the very first GP visit. There was no therapy suggested, no 'headspace' support. I was told straight out, I had a "chemical imbalance" and needed to be on medication to fix it. I was also told by various doctors that therapy would not work for "Bi-polar" and it was strictly a medication issue. I am not alone in that. And it is both sad and scary how many others from ALL over the world have contacted me when I have shared.

BMJ Publishes Study Revealing How Flawed Drug Research Fails a Trusting Public

This study is the focus of many, many class action court cases. I have been supporting families with young children who have been drugged. The families were never ever told that Suicide was a side effect. In the US they have "black box warnings" because that is how dangerous these drugs are to some. But in Australia they refuse to put warnings on the box. Mental health patients are moderated when they comment meds made them worse.

I was a member of a large online psych forum a few years ago. It became abundantly clear these drugs are given like lollies all over the world with disastrous effects. I dont discount that meds help some, and actually support medication use SHORT TERM. There are no studies long term. There are no studies on polydrugging at the point it is now. Its trial and error for the meds, even a doctor would say that. And that is just not good enough when messing with the brain.

I have so much more to say but have probably bored the board half to death with my fight against SSRIs and psych meds.
 
Ayko
Ayko
Not bored at all and have lots to still say but home internet striking :( Be back soon :)

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#15
Another thing to add in regards to doctors dishing out meds - they start with 'sample' packets, saying you dont need to pay, I have plenty of samples! Then you are hooked, and you need to get a script. So you get the script, take it to the chemist, and expect the chemist to dispense the correct medication when needed (as dated on the script), this doesnt happen. I have been throw into cold turkey withdrawal more that 20 times because of chemists not having the mediation in stock. I am in Australia with one of the most celebrated health systems in the world. The meds do say not to stop suddenly... but try finding them when the chemist needs 3 days to get meds in. I just get so frustrated that others cannot see how deadly this is. Especially when it comes to "authority scripts" I cant just take the script to another chemist - I have to go to the government and tell them I intend to change chemist for that drug... its not easy, especially already being so unwell!

I've tried to find the stats on deaths due to adverse medication reactions but its messy, so I'll link to a doctor who is doing his bit to try and change the over-medication of the world.

Dr. David Healy | Psychiatrist. Psychopharmacologist. Scientist. Author.
 
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,228
Likes
2,220
Age
36
#16

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#17
Thankyou! That is pretty much what I was trying to say in my haze in the autism thread - I was manic when I posted that and could not understand why some neurodiversity is ok, but other aspects of neurodiversity are called insane and committed and medicated (or not medicated when previously being on medication). The link gave me some insight.

This is what its like to be in a locked ward in Australia. All it takes is one call to lifeline, one report to fb or one family member to determine you deserving of being locked up in mental ward. They legally can do a 3 day hold, with no assessment (they say 72 hours). I have been held illegally for 5 days, as have many others I have met.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...d/news-story/1b33c03d240a87b10944f5aff6e7077d

It is truly frightening that doctors have this much control over freedoms, and the right to refuse access to medical records. We can not sue a doctor in this country, insurance protects them ;) Which is just another corruption I need to learn more about.

If people are unwell or sick, why are they treated like this? Should it not be care and compassion rather than abuse and harden the Fk up attitude? I cant see society getting far telling cancer survivors to HTFU, and the link in my first post on this thread is from a cancer victim who found benzo withdrawal to feel worse than cancer.

The people who say Psych meds are poison are the people who are already "crazy", we are so easily dismissed.

I am looking for canna oil to help with my nausea, it is legal for my severity and length of symptoms, but doctors want invasive testing to rule out cancer. No thanks. Even if I did have cancer I am not about to trust the medical system again. I'd rather die in peace than in hospital.

I am researching more into canna oil and the like. I know in my ultra sensitive state, even a sniff of lemonbalm oil sends me loopy type dizzy high. There is already a "war on oils" too. Has anyone seen the sheer uneducation of the facebook world when you try and tell them magnesium oil works? The hate I cop for suggesting magnesium oil before meds! Wow. I think we need to go back to community based health care, and life long health care, not just bandaid fixes worshiping doctors as gods who can do no harm. They do harm, and when they do they dont want to know.
 
ILLYRIAN
ILLYRIAN
I had to laugh, what you said about a locked hospital ward. I spent six weeks in one, and had a great time, except for when I tried to dig my way out because of stupid idiotic nurses, and expert physicians who didn't have a clue.
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
2,228
Likes
2,220
Age
36
#18
Yeah, there have been deaths over things like that in the US as well. When I was locked up as a kid in mental hospital (which was actually about bilking my dad's insurance, but I digress--the guy who convinced my parents to send me would lose his job over it later when a PI hired by one of the insurance companies he helped people at the hospital to bilk busted him), I spent some time strapped to a bed with powerful drugs injected into me. I came real close to throwing up. If I had thrown up I'd have probably choked to death on my own vomit (given that I was strapped down facing the ceiling), and it wouldn't be the first or last time something like that happened in a US psychiatric ward.

I know I mentioned my delayed puberty and related problems. While the doctor my grandmother sent me to (who knew nothing of my being put in a mental hospital and the drugs forced on me there) had an explanation, I have suspected that those drugs I was put on were at least a contributing factor if not a primary cause for it. They had other drastic effects on me mentally and physically, and continued for quite awhile after I was released over a clerical error and went cold turkey off of them (given how fuzzy my memory was of that time I can only guess that it was weeks before I fully recovered, which isn't counting the delayed puberty and stuff, assuming any connection, nor the psychological trauma I endured while locked up there).
 

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#19
Im so proud of the people who speak up @thrasherpix . The trauma is real and unimaginable.

I was lucky in that I was sent to boarding school as a kid but it was the move to uni back in the city that set off my anxiety, and my psychological trauma did not start until then. I dont deny I have anxiety. But there was no reason to drug me as they did at 18 years old for anxiety. My insurance also suggested I go to a private ward - I was in the private wards for months at a time. And while the food and surroundings are much nicer than in the public locked wards, the chemical torture was the same.

In some ways worse - forced group therapy. The groups ran a 2 week syllabus, so of course I memorised them after the first run through. I did all the colours of the rainbow groups, they named them in colour code - Gold, diamond, purple, green, turquoise, yellow and finally red - red group is craft group. Have you ever tried doing craft without access to glue or scissors? And if you do too much craft - you're drugged, cos that means manic!

One of the times I was on a 72 hour hold, I was badly assaulted by a man coming off meth. It wasnt the first, nor the last time. I was "compliant" (aka bullied) into taking wafer medication (dissolves in the mouth - fast acting) and was put in a boiling hot bath tub 'to recover' and they left me there. I dont know how long, I was so out of it. I was shaking when they remembered to come check on me - the water was freezing but I was so doped up I could not get out of it. Had I tried I would have smashed my head open for sure. This ward was later closed permanently after a nurse was bashed to death by a patient there.

Yet when they lock you up - "Its for your own safety"...
 

HoppyHippy

My arse is not pansy!
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
5,500
Likes
2,732
Location
Australia
Sineya
#20


This might appeal to those who believe doctors do no wrong and big pharma is a conspiracy theory.

I actually have stress balls and endless pens from the drug companies, in a country that doesnt allow advertising directly to the public... You should see the drug reps that go into hospitals with samples. I've had appointments cut short because drug reps with incentives were waiting.

How do we get through to mainstream society? How do we stop this utter madness?
 
Top Bottom