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Article The writers mentioned Angel...

Spanky

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Black Thorn
Doesn’t bode well for classic Angel fans.
Actually it could bode quite well for Angel fans. Maybe this one - once he turns good (if he turns good) - won't be saddled with a ridiculous curse that makes no sense when you think about it. But hey, I'm an optimist.
 
Angel6
Angel6
I think that’s a real fundamental part of his character! I’m thinking more they may replace Angel with Robin Wood as Buffys human boyfriend, who gets vamped and you get a variation on the Angelus theme.

Spanky

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@Angel6 I didn't say not have him cursed, but ya know, think it through and not have something that totally unravels.
 

Angel6

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@Angel6 I didn't say not have him cursed, but ya know, think it through and not have something that totally unravels.
How do you mean unravels? I understand it writes him into a corner in terms of Bangel because they can’t be together, but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a tragic character. The shanshu gave him a hint of hope that an end was in sight, but it was probably a cruel trick to manipulate him. It is rather bleak, but I quite like it.
 

Spanky

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How do you mean unravels?
The whole moment of happiness clause makes no real sense. What was the purpose, how did it work exactly? Because it seemed like it was just a GOTCHA! to have Angel become evil and be killed. There was no real thought process to it. There are just a lot of nits to pick with it. It was just meant to be one of Whedon's "moments" that he talked about liking to create, where you were just supposed to be dazzled by the big moment and overlook the set-up.

Granted, if Angel stayed dead then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. But...
 

Angel6

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The whole moment of happiness clause makes no real sense. What was the purpose, how did it work exactly? Because it seemed like it was just a GOTCHA! to have Angel become evil and be killed. There was no real thought process to it. There are just a lot of nits to pick with it. It was just meant to be one of Whedon's "moments" that he talked about liking to create, where you were just supposed to be dazzled by the big moment and overlook the set-up.

Granted, if Angel stayed dead then it wouldn't be as big of a deal. But...
The punishment is that he can’t ever let himself get over it or be happy. The Gypsies idea isn’t that he’ll go bad again. It’s that he’ll be so afraid to turn into Angelus again that he will never be happy. They want his life to be a living hell for as long as he exists.
 

Spanky

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The punishment is that he can’t ever let himself get over it or be happy. The Gypsies idea isn’t that he’ll go bad again. It’s that he’ll be so afraid to turn into Angelus again that he will never be happy. They want his life to be a living hell for as long as he exists.
Which would have made sense if anyone told him of the curse. He stumbled across the ramifications of it so he wasn't worried about letting himself get happy until after the curse happened. Then, presumably barring an extraordinary even such as a wannabe witch re-ensouling him, the demon would be back in control and terrorizing people again, and being his/it's normal self.

When Angel and Buffy were making out Angel never once thought about his happiness curse and his not being able to be happy, so he wasn't afraid of turning into Angelus again.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Which would have made sense if anyone told him of the curse. He stumbled across the ramifications of it so he wasn't worried about letting himself get happy until after the curse happened. Then, presumably barring an extraordinary even such as a wannabe witch re-ensouling him, the demon would be back in control and terrorizing people again, and being his/it's normal self.

When Angel and Buffy were making out Angel never once thought about his happiness curse and his not being able to be happy, so he wasn't afraid of turning into Angelus again.
I think the gypsies were screwing Angel over on both angles. Either he'd suffer for all eternity with guilt and never be happy, or he'd come to peace with what he did then have it snatched away again.
 

Spanky

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Either he'd suffer for all eternity with guilt and never be happy,
But again, he didn't know about the no happiness clause so he wouldn't try to not be happy. As witnessed in the show where he you know, tried to be happy. Thus it would leave him to:

come to peace with what he did then have it snatched away again.
And how is that really punishing him? It's not. It's basically giving the demon what he wanted while the human is, more or less, blissfully unaware. Unless or until he gets re-ensouled, but again, that odds of that happening are/were slim.

As far as curses go, it really sucked and was not very well thought out by the Romani. Hell, if they put a damn timer on it: two months you are nice, two months you are evil. That would be more punishment.
 

DeadlyDuo

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But again, he didn't know about the no happiness clause so he wouldn't try to not be happy. As witnessed in the show where he you know, tried to be happy. Thus it would leave him to:


And how is that really punishing him? It's not. It's basically giving the demon what he wanted while the human is, more or less, blissfully unaware. Unless or until he gets re-ensouled, but again, that odds of that happening are/were slim.

As far as curses go, it really sucked and was not very well thought out by the Romani. Hell, if they put a damn timer on it: two months you are nice, two months you are evil. That would be more punishment.
The gypsies were acting out of vengeance, not logic. Also the soul was meant to prevent Angel from being happy as he was tortured by guilt. The gypsies didn't really think it through properly.
 

white avenger

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The whole moment of happiness clause makes no real sense.
The punishment is that he can’t ever let himself get over it or be happy. The Gypsies idea isn’t that he’ll go bad again. It’s that he’ll be so afraid to turn into Angelus again that he will never be happy. They want his life to be a living hell for as long as he exists.
Which would have made sense if anyone told him of the curse.
But again, he didn't know about the no happiness clause so he wouldn't try to not be happy
The gypsies were acting out of vengeance, not logic
it would be nice to have a curse that actually makes sense.
Throughout just about all popular fiction dealing with such things, including "Buffy," magic spells very rarely exist without some form of escape clause or counter measure. Probably, the only way that the ensouling spell would work was that it had to work within some sort of limits. The Gypsies would have probably just assumed that Angelus would have been so overcome with grief, guilt, and shame by what he had done that he would have ended hie own existence. The fact that he never did would have been the reason that they assigned a family group to keep track of him in the first place.

That being the case, why would Spike's soul have no such limitation, one might ask (so I'll answer you before you can even ask it)

Angelus' soul was a curse, placed upon him by a human for crimes committed. Spike's soul, however was a reward, earned through trial by combat, and bestowed by a creature far more powerful than any witch, wizard, sorcerer, or shaman.

(Okay, none of that is in any way actually canon, but I still like the theory, since it at least lends some credence as to the difference in the two ensoulment events as depicted)
 
W

WillowFromBuffy

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Doesn’t bode well for classic Angel fans.
Why? Because she failed to appreciate Angel on her first viewing?
You know I'm used to people having horrible taste saying they hate Angel the character but what bugs me the most about the above is how the article italicizes both Angel the character and Angel the show lol.
Word. And why is Buffy written in bold? :p
 
Angel6
Angel6
She literally said she hates Angel on Buffy.

nightshade

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Black Thorn
Let's keep to the topic, and not turn this into a discussion about his curse.
 

Octavia

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Sineya
A professional writer saying "This is an amazing everything"... Is that a sentence?

"So the big connection to Buffy, which I wish I made younger, but I think because I made it so much as an older lady in my mid twenties. I felt like I could appreciate all the things. "



source -https://dykewriter.wordpress.com/2015/10/01/todays-relatable-character-river-tam-fireflyserenity/
 

white avenger

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I just got word from my dear friends at T F A W that my subscription will be delayed until Feb 13, so I may get an entirely different cover from any of the currently available ones.
 

Taake

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Black Thorn
If she felt like she was wrong about Angel, possibly also Angel, or Angel on Angel rather than Angel on Buffy (italics for the delight of @Mrs Gordo ) and thinks that it was an amazing everything... then I feel like it tentatively bodes well for us Angel and Angel fans? :)
 
Spanky
Spanky
That's how newsarama does everything. The focus of the article gets bold and then any titles, etc, get italicized. It has nothing to do with @Mrs Gordo despite what she may claim.
Angel6
Angel6
I think she liked Angel the show, but hated Angel the character on Buffy. Combined with her comments about being fully ‘team Spike’ who seems to be a timid poet now-who knows.
Mrs Gordo
Mrs Gordo
All I understood is Angel on Buffy and I'm super into that.
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