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Underrated Spuffy

TriBel

Scooby
Joined
Jun 25, 2017
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All the Way:
SPIKE: Feel like a bit of the rough and tumble?
BUFFY: What?
SPIKE: Me ... you... Patrolling? Hello?
Good choices! The one above - I had a discussion with (I think) @Priceless (apologies Pricey if I'm putting words into your mouth) and I'm sure she thought it was a deliberate double entendre on Spike's part. I'm not so sure - I keep meaning to go back to the episode. What d'you think? I've become less sure since I realised Buffy condones "making out" (which is equally ambivalent). Also - it's a Halloween episode and Halloween licences people to do the opposite of what they normally do (it's a carnivelesque space). Is it deliberate - or is it a Freudian slip (so it's on his mind - even if he doesn't know it - but not something he'd usually come out with)?

In Older and Far Away Spike is completely jealous of Richard.
I think First Date replays O&FA. When Xander's hurt in S6 Buffy is about to go to him but Anya gets there first. In FD she goes to Spike and ignores Xander - and it's Wood who's "jealous".
 

Serenityrose

Townie
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You know I've always wondered about that as well. Looking at the All the Way shooting script it says 'the air is suddenly charged between them'
So I definitely think they're both feeling something. There's an undertone even I think in the line 'go a bit wonky if you cram em too close'

But does Spike's suggestion have a double meaning? I don't know. I think by the way James played it, it could be taken either way. The deliberate way he looked at her and kind of paused between each word 'Me.You..' leaving just that half of beat where maybe even the audience doesn't know what he's referring to.

I think what the scene shows to me the most is that the dynamic has changed between them. In those first few episodes, they shared friendly and/or peaceful moments. Here you introduce that underlining chemistry that's developing I think. Because most importantly whether Spike intended to throw out a double meaning, the fact that Buffy automatically jumped to that conclusion was the point for me. On some level she's feeling the 'charge' and it's changing her interactions with Spike.

Another thing I've thought about is in the next episode OMWF, Spike seems more frustrated by the dynamic with Buffy. The situation is more angsty. It makes me wonder (head canon) just how many more charged moments they had in between those two episodes.
 

AstridDante

Potential
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42
You know I've always wondered about that as well. Looking at the All the Way shooting script it says 'the air is suddenly charged between them'
So I definitely think they're both feeling something. There's an undertone even I think in the line 'go a bit wonky if you cram em too close'

But does Spike's suggestion have a double meaning? I don't know. I think by the way James played it, it could be taken either way. The deliberate way he looked at her and kind of paused between each word 'Me.You..' leaving just that half of beat where maybe even the audience doesn't know what he's referring to.

I think what the scene shows to me the most is that the dynamic has changed between them. In those first few episodes, they shared friendly and/or peaceful moments. Here you introduce that underlining chemistry that's developing I think. Because most importantly whether Spike intended to throw out a double meaning, the fact that Buffy automatically jumped to that conclusion was the point for me. On some level she's feeling the 'charge' and it's changing her interactions with Spike.

Another thing I've thought about is in the next episode OMWF, Spike seems more frustrated by the dynamic with Buffy. The situation is more angsty. It makes me wonder (head canon) just how many more charged moments they had in between those two episodes.

Exactly even if Spike wasn’t intending any double meaning, the fact Buffy took it up that way shows the shift in their relationship. Similarly when he called the magic shop and mentioned about doing some ‘grunt work’ and Buffy was like no grunting, so funny but again it is her mind that is on one topic
 

spikenbuffy

"Hi honey, I'm home"
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In Smashed, a couple of episodes later, Buffy also misinterpreted his suggestion in their conversation at the phone in the magic box scene :D.
 
Serenityrose
Serenityrose
Up for a little grunt work. And that time i think its clear Spike wasn't attempting to suggest anything sexual. Again its just where Buffy's mind automatically goes. Not just there but the seductive/Willow magic convo with Xander too.

Serenityrose

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Oh also to follow up on jealousy Buffy and Spike have felt jealousy over eachother a few times.

Spike's jealousy was almost always more in your face. Riley, Angel, Ben, Richard.. then more low key with Wood (Spike very eager to rush out and get Buffy from her date)

Buffy was more subtle but it was multiple times for her too.

Hell's Bells shooting script when Dawn tells her about Spike bringing a date:
'Buffy is conflicted. Depressed and disgusted, trying to be apathetic all at the same time

Later Buffy walks by Spike with his arm around the girl and looks at them
'Buffy tries not to let it bother her but it clearly does'


Dirty Girls shooting script
Buffy seeing Spike and Faith together
'Buffy not liking the cozy look of shirtless Spike and Faith'

There was also a cut moment in the script where Buffy attempts to ask Faith about Spike. It's when they're walking and talking about Angel.


Sleeper shooting script:
Buffy confronts Spike and Spike accuses her of being jealous.
'Indeed this seems to strike a nerve with Buffy but she covers'


First Date shooting script.
While clearly you see that Spike is affected by this there is also a moment between Spike and Buffy when you can tell Buffy is affected by the possibility of Spike moving on.

Spike saying he no longer sees a crypt for two with a white picket fence.
'Buffy a bit disappointed'

As they talk about moving on
'They might even realize they're causing eachother pain..But they can't stop'

And then of course Entropy where Buffy sees Spike and Anya together. Willow figures out immediately just by Buffy's reaction that something happened between her and Spike.
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
Do you have the descriptions of Spuffy's last kiss as B&S gets disgusted when the spell is broken from Something Blue of the shooting script? I think that it's written that Spuffy have sexual tension.

TriBel

Scooby
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Jun 25, 2017
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Manchester
'go a bit wonky if you cram em too close'
I adore that line! Laugh aloud adore. I think you're right about the significance of Buffy's understanding. I've just looked up "rough and tumble" and got "a situation without rules or organization; a free-for-all" (so neither sexual nor related to fighting in a specific sense). Suggests to me that the writers are making a point. I can kinda fit it in with carnival (or could do if I could remember the little I know about it). I've cut and pasted stuff under the spoiler - it's boring but I can see how it works. The language ambivalence is there all the way through - which I always thought was a dangerous game when "no means no". LOL! These thread is called "under-rated" Spuffy! You can't under-rate Spuffy - it's the most complicated relationship I know!

These are Bakhtin's four categories of the carnival sense of the world:

  1. Familiar and free interaction between people: carnival often brought the unlikeliest of people together and encouraged the interaction and free expression of themselves in unity.
  2. Eccentric behaviour: unacceptable behaviour is welcomed and accepted in carnival, and one's natural behaviour can be revealed without consequences.
  3. Carnivalistic mésalliances: the familiar and free format of carnival allows everything that may normally be separated to reunite — Heaven and Hell, the young and the old, etc.
  4. Profanation: in carnival, the strict rules of piety and respect for official notions of the 'sacred' are stripped of their power — blasphemy, obscenity, debasings, 'bringings down to earth', celebration rather than condemnation of the earthly and body-based.
The primary act of carnival is the mock crowning and subsequent de-crowning of a carnival king. It is a "dualistic ambivalent ritual" that typifies the inside-out world of carnival and the "joyful relativity of all structure and order".[3] The act sanctifies ambivalence toward that which is normally considered absolute, single, monolithic. Carnivalistic symbols always include their opposite within themselves: "Birth is fraught with death, and death with new birth."[4] The crowning implies the de-crowning, and the de-crowning implies a new crowning. It is thus the process of change itself that is celebrated, not that which is changed.

For Bakthin carnivalesque imagery is always dualistic and ambivalent. The carnival unites the two poles of change and crisis, birth and death, old and young, down and up, wisdom and stupidity etc. the dualistic imagery is characteristic of the carnival for their contradiction. Things in the carnival are reversed: cloths are worn upside down, household items serve as weapons and the clown is king.


@Priceless - this is why I watch Lucifer. It doesn't frazzle my brain!
 
Priceless
Priceless
Don't you want your brain to fizz and frazzle now and again

spikenbuffy

"Hi honey, I'm home"
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In School Hard ;
95932373_844719322717793_3563474366531106216_n.jpg


In Smashed :

Spike : I wasn't planning on hurting you. Much.
Buffy : You haven't even come close to hurting me.
Spike : Afraid to give me the chance?
 

AstridDante

Potential
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I actually downloaded the shooting scripts a long time ago. I can't even remember which site it was from. I'm assuming Buffy World. Before that I had taken the time to write out some of the more meaningful descriptions about Spuffy.

Me too the shooting script/directions give further insight into what the characters are thinking. So something blue exposed the physical attraction that was already there
 

Serenityrose

Townie
Joined
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37
Tribel..Thank You!


AstridDante.. It definitely makes a point of saying sexually attracted to eachother. Full disclosure it also says once the spell ends they are disgusted, but I found it interesting that the script literally makes a point of saying they are sexually attracted to eachother. I mean honestly all Willow said was that they should get married, it had nothing to do with them being attracted to one another. It's like how Buffy admits to Riley while she's marrying Spike she doesn't like him. Lol
 

spikenbuffy

"Hi honey, I'm home"
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spike-and-buffy.jpg


The last Spuffy scene from Out Of My Mind was longer originally. It's in the shooting script.
 

Serenityrose

Townie
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37
Out my Mind Shooting Script (full dream sequence)

He pulls her head back roughly thrusting her neck forward and kisses it. She moans softly

Buffy: I want you, Spike

He presses his body against hers running his hands down her back. She moans softly. She claws at his chest scratching him with her nails.

Spike: (overwhelmed) Slayer...

Then she pushes him hard knocking him to the ground, she straddles him, grinding against him. She supports herself on her arms brushing his face with her hair..teasing him.

Spike pulls her arms out from under her so that she falls on his chest, he rolls them over so now he's on top

Spike: Oh Buffy, Buffy I love you, God I love you so much..

Spike bolts up in bed
Next to him lies a sleeping Harmony, Spike's eyes are wide with terror as he realizes he's in love with Buffy. He stares ahead, sick with the knowledge. He moans in utter torment

Spike: God no, please no.



Darn WB censors! Lol
 
M

M

Guest
Out my Mind Shooting Script (full dream sequence)

He pulls her head back roughly thrusting her neck forward and kisses it. She moans softly

Buffy: I want you, Spike

He presses his body against hers running his hands down her back. She moans softly. She claws at his chest scratching him with her nails.

Spike: (overwhelmed) Slayer...

Then she pushes him hard knocking him to the ground, she straddles him, grinding against him. She supports herself on her arms brushing his face with her hair..teasing him.

Spike pulls her arms out from under her so that she falls on his chest, he rolls them over so now he's on top

Spike: Oh Buffy, Buffy I love you, God I love you so much..

Spike bolts up in bed
Next to him lies a sleeping Harmony, Spike's eyes are wide with terror as he realizes he's in love with Buffy. He stares ahead, sick with the knowledge. He moans in utter torment

Spike: God no, please no.



Darn WB censors! Lol
Damn...If I recall correctly, though, Joss would pepper scripts with extra spice just so the network could have something to cut. That way he got to keep other bits. Saucy, though. How the imagination wanders....
 

Nearwild

Townie
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Jul 8, 2021
Messages
68
Age
37
I'm just dipping in here after binging the whole series several times during a period of The Big Sad, and gotta say my favourite tiny moments are:
In Never Leave Me, when Buffy is doing her speech, not only the words but moment when she doesn't flinch when he rushes against the chains. Up until that point in S7 she flinches any time Spike touches or approaches her, even during that speech, and it's like she made the decision at that moment that yes, she really truly believes he could be better.
That hot hot moment in Potential when she's straddling him, not just when Spike takes her hand away, but just before when she runs her palm down his ribs. That sort of casual, tender touch is really telling- for me, that's the moment when the love is softly there for both of them, even if it isn't fully acknowledged until later.
 

Nearwild

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I wish we got two full seasons of that awkward former lovers chemistry before the big I love you moment.
Yeah, I feel like it would've been better if he'd interrupted her saying it, like, "Don't. But thanks anyway"
 
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Here are some additional moments I love :):

- In the Fool For Love porch scene, just before the episode ends, they both take a breath at the same time. It's a little thing but I love it and I didn't know until years later that it was intentional which makes me love it even more.
- In After Life when he reaches out to guide her into the living room but stops himself before he actually touches her (not to mention that face journey when he realizes it's her - that's definitely been mentioned already but it can never be called out enough for me - honestly none of his face journeys can be when it comes to Buffy for me lol), and just basically how he completely understands right away not only what she has just been through but also what she needs in the wake of it. He doesn't even speak once Dawn leaves to get the bandages, he just waits for her.
- Also in AL when they both look up at the same time after she places her hands in his.
- And his knowing exactly how many days since she died and the nodding and almost inaudible "yeah" after she says "longer" when he asks how long it was for her.
- Honestly everything in AL between them is just... I have never recovered from that episode lol.
- In Tabula Rasa even when they lose their memories they instinctively pair themselves with each other and trust each other.
- The sound he makes after his hand lands on her shoulder and he knows without a doubt it's really her in Showtime and the way she looks at him... The whole moment from her cutting him free to showing them walking out is less than 30 seconds long and it has So Much in it.
- When Buffy checks in on him in First Date after she's defeated Lissa and he reaches over and touches her hand that's just been on his arm in a kind of brief and sweet acknowledgment of that care like he's saying "I'm alright" like he did in Potential when she checked in then.
- I know the Hell's Bells scene was mentioned more than once (bc it is so so great from start to finish) but the way he forgets himself and says "I'm sorry" completely genuinely when she says it hurts [to see him with someone] and how gentle they ultimately are with each other after the distinctly not gentle sexual relationship they had.
- Also, how in the same scene when she tries to say she deserves [to feel bad] he immediately tells her that's not true and then the whole it's nice to see you happy - I don't see it a lot - you glow bit capped off with that smile and then her joke and they both laugh... It's the two of them at their best with each other and we haven't really seen them like that since the beginning of the season and even then they weren't like that. Ugh. Love it.
- I love their theme that comes up over and over again in S7 - the most immediate instances that come to mind are when it's introduced in Beneath You and then of course in Touched and End of Days and then finally in Chosen (and I think it may pop up one or two more times? idr but it might). It's understated and somber and beautiful and lush and quiet and atmospheric. When I think of Buffy and Spike, one of the things that really sets their relationship apart for me is how private it is. How it is solely between them from Intervention onwards and not up for discussion, and how it's so utterly intimate in S7 in particular - they never could have had a theme like this in 6, which was the intention, to explore a different kind of intimacy between them and it just works for me on every level. They work for me on every level bc they have literally hit every level throughout the series by having been everything to each other - enemies, allies (reluctant and intentional), irritants, friends, lovers, complicated ex's, caretakers, pseudo-parents, partners, something more than partners, something more than friends and something that feels bigger to me than just lovers. By the end they've seen the best and worst of each other and they truly know each other in that final moment when Buffy sees Spike at his best - it's not just a romantic sentiment, it's profoundly true and it's why I ship them so hard lol. It's not a fantasy, it's messy and real and complicated bc of their history, not bc of who they are and I think that's so clear in S7 once he has his soul.

- Beneath You version (it starts in at 3:55)
- Touched version
- End of Days version
- Chosen version (it starts in at 2:50 but the whole thing is just *chef's kiss*)

- the way Buffy acts when she confronts him in School Hard. I don't know how self aware it was from SMG, but I feel a very confident, almost flirty chemistry between them from the get go.

SMG's body language is insane in that scene once she throws down her weapon. It's so unmistakably 'come hither' like Excuse me, Miss Summers??? She ages up about 10 years into a grown woman with knowledge that Buffy doesn't even have yet in that moment... Their Thing may not have been planned, but it was there long before it was which is amazing to me lol. S2 alone ends up unintentionally foreshadowing a lot of what's to come between them - the red paint on Buffy's cheek echoing the blood on Spike's during his intro scene connecting them from the very first episode they appear in together, the attraction between them noted above that absolutely feels sexual on both sides, the indication that Spike's not a normal vamp in the sense that he has the capacity to love and can care deeply for someone else, even his wanting to 'save the world' as selfish as it is originally, in the end he actually does save it and it's a selfless act. Someone said on tumblr that these two are incapable of being normal about each other and never have been and I kind of think the show echoes that itself lol.
 
N
Nearwild
Ugh, this makes my dumb Spuffy heart beat HARD lol ♡
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