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*Unpopular Opinion?* I Hated Xander

Btvs fan

Scooby
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I...didn't like Xander. He was annoying, mildly pointless and he just was difficult to watch on screen. For the first 3ish seasons I hated him. He did have his moments, but overall, was a pain. I only started to like him mid-season 4 when he had Spike living with him, him and Anya were good, he began to improve, did anyone else have this.
I think it's because Joss said he most identified with Xander, so people give him a pass because they think oh its Joss Avatar in the show.
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
I like Xander. I don't care for Joss Whedon. Thinking of Xander as Joss would make me like Xander less.

nightshade

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I think it's because Joss said he most identified with Xander, so people give him a pass because they think oh its Joss Avatar in the show.
I certainly have never thought of it like that, I do however think that the writers have used Xander as a scapegoat a lot.
 
sosa lola
sosa lola
I agree. Xander was totally the show's scapegoat.

Btvs fan

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I certainly have never thought of it like that, I do however think that the writers have used Xander as a scapegoat a lot.
Disagree how it was written at the time in the 90's early 00's I don't think they saw it as scapegoating just Xander being normal.
 

nightshade

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Disagree how it was written at the time in the 90's early 00's I don't think they saw it as scapegoating just Xander being normal.
I would agree with that in the early years, but then you get things like OMWF where it made no sense for Xander to summon a demon.
 
B
Btvs fan
That was joss simply not caring about it making sense to resolve a plot. He did that a lot imo

katmobile

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I would agree with that in the early years, but then you get things like OMWF where it made no sense for Xander to summon a demon.
I still maintain he didn't.There's a fan theory he was covering for Dawn which sense he never confessed in song during I've got a theory and blamed witches would figure. This is coming from a general fan of neither Xander or fan theories but that one makes sense to me.
 
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sosa lola
sosa lola
This is the most logical theory, but I don't think it was supported by the show.

sosa lola

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I think it's because Joss said he most identified with Xander, so people give him a pass because they think oh its Joss Avatar in the show.
I disagree. I personally didn't know that Xander was based on Joss until the show was over right when Joss himself stated that he most identified with Buffy, the character, and that he was writing about himself through Buffy and that Xander was merely based on himself when he was in high school before Xander started having sex.

Disagree how it was written at the time in the 90's early 00's I don't think they saw it as scapegoating just Xander being normal.
Xander was a total scapegoat. I remember Fury once saying that Xander was the butt of their jokes, especially in S4 and that they loved humiliating him. He was most certainly used as a tool to move the plot forwards and S6 is the biggest proof of that as Xander's character development in the previous seasons was completely dropped in favor of making Xander the villain in the Spuffy story, not to mention the whole summoning Sweet thing which was out of character for Xander.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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I don't think Xander is the villain in the Spuffy story. The way he speaks to Buffy and Anya is horrible, but he is proven right when Spike assault Buffy, and he forgives Buffy and apologies for his behaviour quickly after.

Xander claims to know he isn't the hero of S6, but he kinda is. He is a stabilising force in the Scoobies up to Hells Bell, then he goes medieval for a spell, but he gets it together and has talks with Buffy and Willow that helps them on their way to saving themselves.

S1-3 Xander is a great character. S4-7 Xander is a great character and an even better person.
 

sosa lola

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I don't think Xander is the villain in the Spuffy story.
I think it's how his character becomes too anti-Spike in S6 when by the end of S5 he had mellowed down a lot. You have the "no one is judging you" scene, Xander being protective when alone with Spike, but never puts down Buffy or judges her, Xander feeling sorry for Spike after Glory tortures him, Xander lighting Spike's cigarette, Xander teaming up with Spike in Weight of the World without one single insult directed at Spike, same goes for Grave - in fact it was Spike who mocks Xander, not the other way around.

When S6 arrives, Xander gets too anti-Spike in such a 2D way that every time he sees him, he throws an insult at him and it gets so tiring.


S1-3 Xander is a great character. S4-7 Xander is a great character and an even better person.
S1-2 Xander will always be my favorite. I just love how outgoing and brave and charming he is.

S4,5,7 Xander is all right. He is a good person, but pretty much a background character.

S3 Xander is an asshole in the first part and a clown in the second part - minus The Zeppo.

S6 Xander is just a pain to watch. He has some good moments, but overall, such a pain in the ass.

I say that as Xander's biggest fan in the universe.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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I think it's how his character becomes too anti-Spike in S6 when by the end of S5 he had mellowed down a lot. You have the "no one is judging you" scene, Xander being protective when alone with Spike, but never puts down Buffy or judges her, Xander feeling sorry for Spike after Glory tortures him, Xander lighting Spike's cigarette, Xander teaming up with Spike in Weight of the World without one single insult directed at Spike, same goes for Grave - in fact it was Spike who mocks Xander, not the other way around.

When S6 arrives, Xander gets too anti-Spike in such a 2D way that every time he sees him, he throws an insult at him and it gets so tiring.
Well, Xander isn't a monster. He is able to sympathise with Spike when he is hurt, and in S5, he learns to tolerate him. However, I never get the sense that Xander likes Spike. Just remember the schadenfreude when he learns of Spike's crush.

And remember that the intervention in "Intervention" is an intervention. They believe Buffy has gone temporarily insane after her mother's death. Of course they are sympathetic. Who wouldn't be? It is a very different situation from S6. Xander discovers that Buffy has been lying to them for close to a year. And Xander is at a low point when he learns this. He believes he is doomed to become his father and he has lost his girlfriend, who has been backing him up for the last three years. Xander in "Entropy" and early "Seeing Red" is not representative of Xander. It is Xander at his absolute worst. Xander at the end of "Seeing Red" is regular Xander ... or ... it is the Xander Xander has grown to become.
I say that as Xander's biggest fan in the universe.
You may be the bigger fan, but I think I appreciate different things in Xander. S4 is by far my favourite Xander season, and I think it has by far the best Xander story, especially if you see it as ending with "The Replacement," as it is left unresolved in S4.
 

katmobile

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Well, Xander isn't a monster. He is able to sympathise with Spike when he is hurt, and in S5, he learns to tolerate him. However, I never get the sense that Xander likes Spike. Just remember the schadenfreude when he learns of Spike's crush.

And remember that the intervention in "Intervention" is an intervention. They believe Buffy has gone temporarily insane after her mother's death. Of course they are sympathetic. Who wouldn't be? It is a very different situation from S6. Xander discovers that Buffy has been lying to them for close to a year. And Xander is at a low point when he learns this. He believes he is doomed to become his father and he has lost his girlfriend, who has been backing him up for the last three years. Xander in "Entropy" and early "Seeing Red" is not representative of Xander. It is Xander at his absolute worst. Xander at the end of "Seeing Red" is regular Xander ... or ... it is the Xander Xander has grown to become.

You may be the bigger fan, but I think I appreciate different things in Xander. S4 is by far my favourite Xander season, and I think it has by far the best Xander story, especially if you see it as ending with "The Replacement," as it is left unresolved in S4.
I agree with much of this and it's realistic how development isn't a straight line you go forward and slide back at little when things go bad. Xander has his preduices and his flaws they mostly improve but they get the better of him sometimes and he slides back. I don't think he's the villian of Spuffy storyline but he shows what Buffy was afraid of in relation to her friends. I think it's telling that both Bangel and Spuffy bring out the worst in him. It's not mentioned or a canon interpretation but he stops ragging on Spike after he is the one who works out Spike's being triggered. He's never a shithead to him again after that instead Anya who has jealously regarding forgiveness takes that role. I think it's because Xander can relate to being used physcolgically (i.e. mind control) because it happened to him and Xander's other big physcolgical breakthrough comes when he is manipulated by the big bad. It's empathy with others and realising they're not so different and the realisation of our own weaknessess and addressing them that help us grow.
 

DeadlyDuo

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and he forgives Buffy and apologies for his behaviour quickly after.
Buffy didn't need forgiving because she'd done nothing wrong. Whilst her relationship with Spike was unhealthy for both of them, she still had consensual sex with him (and she tended to be the one who initiated it). The idea that Xander "forgives" Buffy over her relationship with Spike makes him look like a judgmental prick. Him apologising for his poor behaviour is him acknowledging he was a bit of a dickhead which is all well and good, but he shouldn't have been a dickhead to begin with because he had no right to be.

I think it's how his character becomes too anti-Spike in S6 when by the end of S5 he had mellowed down a lot. You have the "no one is judging you" scene, Xander being protective when alone with Spike, but never puts down Buffy or judges her, Xander feeling sorry for Spike after Glory tortures him, Xander lighting Spike's cigarette, Xander teaming up with Spike in Weight of the World without one single insult directed at Spike, same goes for Grave - in fact it was Spike who mocks Xander, not the other way around.

When S6 arrives, Xander gets too anti-Spike in such a 2D way that every time he sees him, he throws an insult at him and it gets so tiring.
I agree. What makes it worse is that Spike had spent the whole summer helping the scoobies out so why does Xander seem to hate him more in Season 6 than in Season 5 for no reason at all. The scoobies don't have to like Spike but there is no reason why they can't be civil considering he's a member of the team.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Buffy didn't need forgiving because she'd done nothing wrong. Whilst her relationship with Spike was unhealthy for both of them, she still had consensual sex with him (and she tended to be the one who initiated it). The idea that Xander "forgives" Buffy over her relationship with Spike makes him look like a judgmental prick. Him apologising for his poor behaviour is him acknowledging he was a bit of a dickhead which is all well and good, but he shouldn't have been a dickhead to begin with because he had no right to be.
Xander says that it hurts that Buffy didn't tell him about Spike but concedes that he knows she had reasons to keep it from him, knowing how he would react. Buffy then apologies for keeping it secret.

I think that's fair. It is up to Xander and Buffy to decide how open a relationship they want to have. In "Seeing Red," they realise that they are no longer as close and open with each other as they wish to be.
 

DeadlyDuo

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Xander says that it hurts that Buffy didn't tell him about Spike but concedes that he knows she had reasons to keep it from him, knowing how he would react. Buffy then apologies for keeping it secret.

I think that's fair. It is up to Xander and Buffy to decide how open a relationship they want to have. In "Seeing Red," they realise that they are no longer as close and open with each other as they wish to be.
Just because Buffy apologises doesn't mean she needs Xander to "forgive" her. They both acknowledge that things weren't handled as well as they could've been,
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Just because Buffy apologises doesn't mean she needs Xander to "forgive" her. They both acknowledge that things weren't handled as well as they could've been,
I think it was very important for Buffy to make peace with Xander. He is one of her most important relationships, and she has felt lonely and isolated since coming back.
 

sosa lola

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You may be the bigger fan, but I think I appreciate different things in Xander.
I do appreciate different things in Xander on the show. I don't know, I guess reading tons of Xander fanfiction I get a little bitter over how little he was used on the show when there's so much potential for more.


S4 is by far my favourite Xander season, and I think it has by far the best Xander story, especially if you see it as ending with "The Replacement," as it is left unresolved in S4.
I love S4 Xander, it was actually the first season of the show I watched regularly without missing an episode. I remember only reading Basement Xander fics because he was very relatable that season and there was lots of potential for angsty storylines.

I do agree with your analysis on why Xander reacted to Spuffy in S6 differently than S5, I have written something like that in 2010 (link). I think my problem is mostly how Xander's attitude changes from end of S5 to beginning of S6. Is it Buffy's death? Perhaps since Xander kept Spike's lighter with him after Spiral, a missing scene in that summer might be a clue to Xander's changing attitude.
 

Vulpixx91

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Yeah I don't like Xander at all. The way he treats the women around him is just appalling imo. In the early seasons he acts like Buffy 'owes' him something more than friendship and generally behaves like an entitled incel. He's constantly judging Buffy over her relationship with Angel (and later Spike). He purposely conceals the fact that Willow restored Angel's soul (it annoys me so much he never gets called out on that afterwards) and then has the guts to tell Buffy "I'm sorry that your honey was a demon, but most girls don't hop a Greyhound over boy troubles". After she has had to stab the love of her life through the heart with a sword! How insensitive can you be?

I also find it horrible how he messes with Willow's feelings: all these years he must have known or at least suspected she was in love with him, and he was never interested. Then all of a sudden, when she's not available anymore, he has to have her. Cheating on Cordelia in the process, of course.

And don't even get me started on what he does to Anya. Throughout their relationship, he spends so much time putting her down, making her feel like she's not behaving in the 'right' way, acting like he's always just a little bit ashamed of her. And leaving someone at the altar like that is just another level of messed up. He should never have proposed to her in the first place, as it is clear he had doubts from the beginning. I think Anya was right when she said he was only doing it because he thought the world was about to end and he would never actually have to got through with it. And then he has the guts to slut-shame Anya for sleeping with Spike, while she was single and could do whatever she wanted, it was basically none of his business.
 
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The Bronze

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I hate to break it to you @IHateParkerA but Xander hating has been at the height of fashion for years. There are more people hating Xander than there are people wandering around in Nirvana t-shirts.

I don't get it personally. Sure he has his bad moments but he's generally awesome. Also it would have been a really short show if he wasn't around to save Buffy.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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I think my problem is mostly how Xander's attitude changes from end of S5 to beginning of S6.
I don't remember that many Xander/Spike interactions in early S6. I think Xander is cordial in "After Life" when Spike shoves him up against the tree. He may not apologise for keeping the resurrection secret, but note that he validates Spike's feelings for Buffy by asking if seeing her wasn't the best moment of his existence.

In "Crush" and "Forever," Xander is downright hostile to Spike, but still, he is hardly more so than Buffy is. Spike is a man-eating monster, and Xander does not like to play pretend.
And don't even get me started on what he does to Anya. Throughout their relationship, he spends so much time putting her down, making her feel like she's not behaving in the 'right' way, acting like he's always just a little bit ashamed of he
I think Xander is a great boyfriend to Anya. Anya isn't the easiest person for people to deal with, so without Xander as a mediator she would not have had friends or a job. If my gf insulted all my friends to their faces, I'd ask her to quit it.
 
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