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Unpopular Opinions

genghiskhan

God among men
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
130
What are some unpopular opinions that you have about either BTVS or ATS?
It can literally be about anything in the buffyverse, I'm just intrigued about people's different points of view.
 

genghiskhan

God among men
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
130
I prefer BtVS to AtS
I really like Dawn
I quite like Riley and Kennedy
I really like S4 and 6 of BtVS
Despite its flaws, when S7 shines, I think I really shines
"Spin the Bottle" and "Orpheus" are just as bad as most of S4 of AtS
We literally have almost the same opinions.
I also really like Dawn, I literally thought I was the only one who didn't hate her. The same with Riley, yeah he annoys me but I don't hate him.
And yeah, I also love season 7, I just think it had some pretty naff character decisions and it was a bit rushed with everything that was going on.
I don't think there is a single episode in Angel season 4 that I actually like...
 

WillowFromBuffy

Hear Me Roar!
Joined
Apr 18, 2017
Messages
4,887
Age
31
I don't think there is a single episode in Angel season 4 that I actually like...
I think "Salvage" and "Release" are pretty damn awesome. Faith really pumps some adrenaline into the show and gives us a hero to root for. The moment she leaves, everything just turns bad again :p They even bring back Darla, who so far has had an unblemished run of awesomeness on AtS and have her arguing with evil!Cordelia.

I also remember liking the Gina Torres episodes. I am going to watch them again soon.
 

sosa lola

Scooby
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Messages
4,736
Age
34
1) I like Riley. I never thought he was abusive and I feel his relationship with Buffy was her healthiest and happiest especially in S4.

2) I have no problem with Angel attacking Wes in the hospital after Holtz took Connor. Was it wrong and should he have been stopped? Most definitely. But I can completely understand why a heartbroken parent would react that way against the person who lost him his child, and I don't hold it against Angel.

3) I thought Xander's last line about Anya "That's my girl. Always doing the stupid thing" to be filled with pride and love, totally endearing and perfect. I really wish it was his last line in the show.

4) I don't think the Core Four was unfairly cliquey or exclusionary to anyone. I thought they were fair to outright generous and welcoming considering their respective circumstances to Cordelia/Oz/Anya/Angel/Riley/Spike/Dawn/Tara/Andrew/Jonathan.

The only characters that really have a leg to stand on to complain about the Core Four excluding them or not treating them with the respect that they deserve was S3 Wesley and post-Innocence Jenny. And Faith had a legitimate complaint on Giles not engaging her enough.

5) I honestly don't find any of the main-cast characters on BtVS ever unforgivable.

6) Anya's trying to kill Xander -- and, more importantly, trying to get his friends, including multiply traumatized Dawn, to wish him a horrible end -- is incredibly terrible and pretty heavy evidence she hadn't actually learned the value of human life or become a moral thinker. I sympathize with her while she does it, because she's hurt and retreating to an old set of ethics in which all men are evil and punishable, but it's in no way close to okay.

7) I think Joyce was a very flawed parent in many ways, but I think she was in a difficult situation and tried very hard: following a divorce, she left her whole life behind after her daughter burned down a school gym apparently for no reason. Her daughter continued to get in trouble, and over the first three years in Sunnydale, despite a thriving career she dated exactly once (and he turned out to be a killer) and made one friend (who became a zombie who needed to be put down by her daughter). The only other thing even remotely close to a human connection she had was Giles. She dealt badly with Buffy's coming out as a slayer, and took her anger at herself out on Buffy when she returned. But even as she resents the fact that her daughter's life expectancy is being cut in half, she began to be supportive of Buffy's slayer life -- going as far as to recognize, even more than Buffy did, the loneliness that her comrade in arms Faith would feel, and the connection the two could have.
 
K
katmobile
I agree with point four and it's mainly because of Xander's attitude to Angel.
Last Watcher
Last Watcher
Agree with pretty much all of this :)

Puppet

You rocks think you're so smart.
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
4,822
Age
30
Location
Denmark
Black Thorn
  • Angel S4 is both the best and the worst season
  • Joyce was neither a bad or great mother, she was just a mother. Sometimes she made mistakes, other times she did right by her children, end of
  • Angel and Angelus are not separate people, they are the same and Angel is 100% responsible for Angelus' actions and vice/versa
  • Angel/Nina is a great pairing
  • Scott Hope was a good boyfriend and a good guy but was turned into an OOC a-hole to justify him and Buffy breaking up to make way for more Bangel
  • Kate was boring and felt like she belonged on a different show, like CSI
  • Beer Bad is one of the best episodes of S4
  • Once More, with Feeling is not nearly as good as it seems, but the musical styling makes many think so (including me, once upon a time)
  • BtVS should've ended with S5 (and then I wouldn't have to make apologies for shipping Spuffy :p)
  • Some of the worst episodes of the show are The Prom, Amends, I Will Remember You, and Graduation Day
  • Angel and Buffy had almost no chemistry when on screen together
  • Willow is a boring character, unless she's evil
 
Angel6
Angel6
Angel and Angelus are totally represented as separate people. Nothing wrong with you using that as your head cannon to justify why his soul is different to Spikes, but they are treated differently. (Bad writing?!)

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Black sun/blood moon/hail hydra
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
5,697
Black Thorn
Parker wasn't a bad guy. Buffy just expected too much after one night of sex.

Beer Bad is an excellent episode.

"I Will Remember You" is terribly over-rated, as are "Hush" and "Becoming."

I liked Connor for the most part.
 
Puppet
Puppet
I would agree if not for the later toilet comment...

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
5,715
Location
Canada
Sineya
Both shows could be called "The Decline and Fall of Buffy/Angel".

We see Buffy as the general in Season 3 with a successful defence against the Mayor but by Season 7 she is the ditz whose command was rightfully rejected and only protected by plot Kevlar and a couple of McGuffins in the form of the scythe and the amulet.

We see Angel as the earnest protector of the defenceless accept the offer of Wolfram & Hart and get corrupted to the point that he brings disaster on the city for the pride of believing he could change the organization from the inside.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
6,273
Age
28
Didn't we already have a thread on this?


Riley is not the good guy the show tries to make him out to be. He's generally okay throughout Season 4, however his Season 5 behaviour retroactively throws into question some of his less stellar Season 4 behaviour eg The Yoko Factor. Buffy dodged a bullet by not stopping him from leaving.

Spike never should've gotten a soul, Spuffy never should've happened and Sprusilla never should've been split up.

The scoobies should've been more sad that Sunnydale was completely destroyed, especially Buffy, Willow and Giles due to the fact that the graves of Joyce, Tara and Jenny were in Sunnydale and were now gone.

Sunnydale should not have been destroyed.

The first should've been an actually beatable foe, powerful but beatable.

Willow should've mourned Tara for the whole of Season 7.

Kennedy should've been killed.

Dawn should learn to eat ice cream properly.

Faith should've been killed off.

Amy Acker should've played Veruca

Cluffy should've happened during Season 6. Buffy feels bad for using Clem to feel better, knowing that Clem is in love with her.
 

spikenbuffy

"Buffy's like nobody else in the world"
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
941
Age
24
Location
France
I love both Bangel & Spuffy even Briley
I love Spike and I like Angel
I love ATS S4
I love BTVS S6
BTVS S7 is good
I like Dawn & riley
reptile Boy is a good episode and is underrated same as NKABOTFD
IOHEFY is overrated
 

spikenbuffy

"Buffy's like nobody else in the world"
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
941
Age
24
Location
France
Cluffy should've happened during Season 6. Buffy feels bad for using Clem to feel better, knowing that Clem is in love with her.
Do you find Clem attractive ? Why would Buffy find Clem attractive as a demon with a skin worse than human with bad acne ?
 
Puppet
Puppet
Why is it about appearances?

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
6,273
Age
28
Do you find Clem attractive ? Why would Buffy find Clem attractive as a demon with a skin worse than human with bad acne ?
Clem is a nice guy, he's not a looker granted, but he is a nice guy. I could see him fancying Buffy in Season 5 and accepting that she doesn't see him in that way. In Season 6, Buffy confides in Clem about her resurrection. When she's upset one night she visits his place, he comforts her then one thing leads to another which Buffy initiates because she wants to "feel". In the morning Buffy regrets her actions, particularly because she knows Clem likes her. She initially tries to avoid him but finds herself going back repeatedly for comfort, even though she hates herself for doing it. Spike finds out about the secret relationship between Clem and Buffy and begins blackmailing Buffy over it which adds to her woes and her money trouble. Eventually Spike spills the beans out of spite which causes Clem to give him the cold shoulder (because Spike never thought about how it would affect Clem, he was too focussed on his dislike of Buffy), the scoobies have mixed reactions. Tara tries to be understanding, Willow is confused, Anya is accepting but in a tactless way, whilst Xander is taken aback and shocked (but not in a horrible way, he just doesn't understand why Buffy would do that). Buffy finally admits to the scoobies that she was in heaven and that they pulled her out, this upsets Willow greatly and Tara has to comfort her. The scoobies rally round Buffy as best they can and she begins to readjust to life. She goes to see Clem and apologises for using him, the two decide to just be friends. Clem makes Spike pay back Buffy's money by telling him that unless he does, their friendship is over for good. Spike reluctantly pays back the money.
 

Mylie

Scooby
Joined
Dec 1, 2016
Messages
1,981
Age
31
Dawn is one of the best characters on the show
Darla is a more interesting character than Drusilla
S4 of BtVS is really enjoyable to watch
Reptile Boy is a good and fun episode to watch
A Hole In the World is a bad episode.
I like Kennedy.
 
Puppet
Puppet
Agree with the first two, though I still adore Dru :)

spikenbuffy

"Buffy's like nobody else in the world"
Joined
Jul 31, 2018
Messages
941
Age
24
Location
France
Puppet Why is it about appearances?

Because people who are ugly, have bad acne skin or don't have an attractive body gets hated in real life even in tv shows , movies, music industry, it's always beautiful people who are on screen. There is a discrimination against not beautiful people.

People search people with beautiful faces and bodies first before personnality so I have a hard time seeing why people would imagine that a beautiful girl like Buffy would find a demon like Clem attractive/beautiful and so would be with Clem.

I mean if Angel, Faith and Spike weren't seen as attractive as they are, would you think that people would love them so much?
 

Puppet

You rocks think you're so smart.
Joined
Aug 1, 2017
Messages
4,822
Age
30
Location
Denmark
Black Thorn
Puppet Why is it about appearances?

Because people who are ugly, have bad acne skin or don't have an attractive body gets hated in real life even in tv shows , movies, music industry, it's always beautiful people who are on screen. There is a discrimination against not beautiful people.

People search people with beautiful faces and bodies first before personnality so I have a hard time seeing why people would imagine that a beautiful girl like Buffy would find a demon like Clem attractive/beautiful and so would be with Clem.

I mean if Angel, Faith and Spike weren't seen as attractive as they are, would you think that people would love them so much?
First off, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Second, that's exactly why Cluffy would've been a good thing, as it would've promoted something healthier to the young people watching; that it's not about appearances. Clem is a good guy, a sweet demon with a gentle spirit, why doesn't he deserve someone like Buffy? Should he just 'stick to his own kind'?

I just feel like this kind of attitude is why we don't get pairings like this on TV, thankfully more and more leading people these days are not the average standard for beauty.
 
DeadlyDuo
DeadlyDuo
Well said!
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
I won't be against a message about "It's not about appearance" but I just think people in general are shallow. Even B Spears got treated horribly just because of her weight and her being clothed in jogging and more.

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
6,273
Age
28
Because people who are ugly, have bad acne skin or don't have an attractive body gets hated in real life even in tv shows , movies, music industry, it's always beautiful people who are on screen. There is a discrimination against not beautiful people.

People search people with beautiful faces and bodies first before personnality so I have a hard time seeing why people would imagine that a beautiful girl like Buffy would find a demon like Clem attractive/beautiful and so would be with Clem.
Buffy's not shallow. If she'd been around Clem for a while, she'd be used to his appearance thus the personality would be what she noticed. Besides, Buffy would be in a bad place, she'd be more focussed on trying to feel, not who she's doing. Clem would be a port in a storm.
 
spikenbuffy
spikenbuffy
Buffy mocked Jonathan in Earshot saying that he was "three feet tall".

katmobile

Potential
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
244
Age
47
Puppet Why is it about appearances?

Because people who are ugly, have bad acne skin or don't have an attractive body gets hated in real life even in tv shows , movies, music industry, it's always beautiful people who are on screen. There is a discrimination against not beautiful people.

People search people with beautiful faces and bodies first before personnality so I have a hard time seeing why people would imagine that a beautiful girl like Buffy would find a demon like Clem attractive/beautiful and so would be with Clem.

I mean if Angel, Faith and Spike weren't seen as attractive as they are, would you think that people would love them so much?
Yes I think they would actually ambivalent chracters are interesting.

Also on that subject Angel is much less virtuous than many believe him to be and just as arbitrary about who he thinks is worth helping. It's possible Lindsay could have redeamed himself had Angel given him any real encouragement, support or inventive during Blind Date.
 
Angel6
Angel6
Angel tried pretty hard to help Lindsay.
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