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Unpopular opinions

Joan the Vampire Slayer

Carpe Spuffy!
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
5,664
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35
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WA State
Post high school Willow is a selfish narcissist and a very unlikeable character.

Season 6 is the most interesting season.

Bangel is boring.

Spike is Buffy's soulmate, and she loved and loves him.

Willow was better with Oz.

Xander is not as funny as he thinks he is.

Warren was the scariest Big Bad.

#fightme
 
Puppet
Puppet
I'll go one further and say that high school Willow is already selfish and unlikeable.
TriBel
TriBel
#fightme I wouldn't dare. :)) If we're playing Top Trumps, I'll say Willow's a megalomaniac who wants to rule the world. I win.
Priceless
Priceless
I agree mostly, but you are too harsh on Willow
V
Vardon90
I agree that Willow was unpleasant after High School & that she was better with Oz

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
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Montauban (France)
The whole Vampire with a soul/ without a soul doesn’t have really much sense for me. I mean I understand it in the first three seasons as the difference between Angel and Angelus/others vampires (Spike/Drusilla/Darla...) are really obvious. Angel was doing good things and the vampire with no soul were doing bad things. It was pretty simple. A soul was considered like a human conscience. But then the show showed many examples of vampires with no soul acting like they have one (Spike of course, but he is another special case with the chip, but also Harmony, James and Elizabeth...). And if we add the notion of love in all of that ( are vampires with no soul capable to love someone ? If yes what kind of love is this ? If they love, they have feelings, so do they feel the pain they do to others by killing them ?) it’s more and more confusing.
And being in fandom makes all that even more disturbing. 😂😂
I sometimes think the producers just do a case by case on that soul subjects
 
Dogs of Winter
Dogs of Winter
The story re Angel's soul was great in Buffy S2, but after that there was no consistency - it was just used as a plot device at random times

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
503
Age
63
I think the ‘post new soul’ story is done far better with Angel in S3 than it is in S7 with Spike. Angel has far better and realistic (within the show! ) consequences. Spike gets let off the hook more because the show tells us everyone is being unfair when they don’t, they never do this with Angel
 

Antho

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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26
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Montauban (France)
FOOL FOR LOVE. THERE IS SPOILERS ABOUT ANGEL ON MY POST. DON’T READ IT ! SEE I’M THINKING ON YOU 😌. DON’T READ IT MY FRIENDS



Just rewatch « origin » from Angel. It’s hard for me to understand that Wesley really believe that Angel has signed a contract with Wolfram and Hart including Fred’s death. I understand that Wesley is not really himself, he just lose the girl he loves and he discovers that Angel has made a deal. But he is so confident into jumping on that Theory that Angel betrayed them and is responsible of Fred’s death and that is quite perturbing for me. Angel is still his friend.. he should give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Last edited:
Priceless
Priceless
One of the reasons Wesley is overrated

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
Jul 5, 2007
Messages
8,451
Age
65
Location
Toodyay
Black Thorn
What if the concept about vampires had never been thought of would the show be called
Buffy The Werewolf Slayer
OR
Buffy Slayer of Hell's Demons
 

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
2,043
Age
26
Location
Montauban (France)
A big one :

I don’t think Hyena Xander raped Buffy in THE PACK. Or that he attempted to for that matters. Honestly before coming in fandom, I NEVER saw that scene like that. For me it was just Xander under an evil influence who engaged a fight against Buffy and tried to hurt her. I never saw anything more than that. I have troubles to understand how this can be compared to THE AR in « Seeing red ». I don’t think that scene with Xander was filmed to be interpreted like a rape whereas it’s definitely the case for Spike and Buffy
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Buffy handles the Hyena easily, but crying, cringing, bruised by Spike (who is always getting a pass for doing worse than Xander by Xander haters). So both are AR, but also very different, and also a plot contrivance of s6 Buffy made weaker for story
Puppet
Puppet
It's definitely meant to be an AR - Buffy's dialogue gives that away - but I don't think it's comparable to the Spike AR, either

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
8,991
Age
30
Whedon will come through the current crisis mostly unscathed (though with a little damage to his credibility).

Dawn was not that great of a character and it's telling that her popularity only increased in Season 7 when she was basically pushed to the side lines.

Season 5 is not the best Season of Buffy, is pretty weak with the seasonal arc of Glory, and is only given more credit than it is due due to some standout episodes such as Fool For Love and The Body.
 
r2dh2
r2dh2
Agree about S5 BtVS, I feel that it's overrated.
darkspook
darkspook
I reluctantly agree with you about Whedon to a degree. John Lasseter was removed from Pixar/Disney but managed to find work elsewhere.

GothicBuffy

Slayer
Joined
Feb 18, 2021
Messages
28
Age
17
Location
Boston
I like Connor but I hate Dawn.

AtS never had solid characterization for Angel (partially because of DB's acting) and I liked him less and less as the show wore on. He thought he deserved to be in charge of stuff that clearly wasn't his place. He shouldn't have wiped Conor's memories or those of his friends.

Xander was consistently funny and one of the best characters. He was flawed, but not more than anyone else. Worthy of note that he grew up in an abusive, dysfunctional household and never got real support with that, so of course he's going to have not the greatest behaviour sometimes.

Spike's only good episode on Angel was Destiny when he was kicking Angel's ass. All else was poor characterization and they used him way too much for simple comedic relief. He's far more complex a guy. And besides, the instant he was corporeal, he would have gone to Buffy no matter what, JM was just bound by contract.
Also, Spike and Angel dynamics were annoying on AtS and could have been explored in deeper ways.

After AtS, there was no future for Bangel.

Season 4 of BTVS is a great season.

Go Fish and Where the Wild Things Are are fun and good episodes.

The entire Faith conflict could have been avoided if Buffy's friends didn't act... like that... and they all went out and got dinner or something.

Buffy was bi. (I heard they confirm this in the comics? Unsure.) On that note, way more characters were LGBTQ but the show never got super into it.

Buffy was canonically anti capitalist and embodied those values.

Giles was a better parental figure than Joyce (at least until S6)

Spuffy would have happened even if Buffy didn't die (not sure if this is unpopular).
 

darkspook

Potential
Joined
Dec 13, 2020
Messages
126
Age
36
Season 4 of Angel is pretty good baring Cordelia subplot.
The show Buffy should have finished at Season 5.
There should have been more Willow, Buffy & Xander scenes. Remember S1 & S2 just scenes of them hanging out barely happened after S2.
The plot involving Giles being the First was an insult to fans.
Dawn was just a plot device and show did not know what to do with her after S5.
 

burrunjor

Potential
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
402
Age
30
Can we agree that Caleb is the most stupid villain ever? Regardless of what we think of the mutiny. His ‘you’re never going to guess what I’ve got, hehe!’ ‘I’m going to dig it up and put it on display, even going to put some nice flames next to it for lighting. I’m going to push this barrel over for no reason whatsoever

Oh Caleb 🙈 he very much deserved the humiliation Buffy dealt him when she won the scythe by simply running around (and lots of cool flips of course)
I feel Caleb was a cool idea. The First evils right hand man is actually a human. Makes perfect sense, humans can choose to be evil, so an evil human is always going to be more special than a Vampire that kills because it is it's nature.

Added to that you have Nathan Fillion's charismatic and engaging performance and just the thrill of seeing the hero of Firefly as a monster. It's not surprising he is popular, even if most of his plan makes 0 sense.
 

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
503
Age
63
I feel Caleb was a cool idea. The First evils right hand man is actually a human. Makes perfect sense, humans can choose to be evil, so an evil human is always going to be more special than a Vampire that kills because it is it's nature.

Added to that you have Nathan Fillion's charismatic and engaging performance and just the thrill of seeing the hero of Firefly as a monster. It's not surprising he is popular, even if most of his plan makes 0 sense.
Caleb was definitely a great villain, I think mostly his giving away the plan is due to them meandering around with The First plot for most of S7 and realising they’d got to episode 18 and nothing had moved forward so they had to have Caleb doing a ‘you’re getting warmer!’ thing to hurry it along 😂
 

burrunjor

Potential
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
402
Age
30
Okay mine have been stated elsewhere but what the hell, cool idea for a thread.

1/ Spuffy was mostly terrible.

There are some parts I like. James and Sarah have great chemistry, and it comes a to a reasonably satisfying conclusion in Chosen.

However I think it let down both Spike and Buffy as characters for the following reasons.

As I have said before S2-4 Spike was a brilliant, original take on a good guy Vampire. One who isn't a nice guy, but is practical. IE he's not so evil that he'll destroy the world on a whim. He actually is smart enough to realise he has a pretty good position the way it is now. In the modern world he's a wolf among the sheep. If the world is sucked into hell, he could be quite low down on the Demon pecking order!

He also enjoys the shallow vices of the human world. Demons probably wouldn't make as good music, tv or sports as we do LOL. That coupled with his chronic backstabbing (Angelus, Drusilla, Buffy, that Vamp in the Initiative, the Scoobies, etc He stabbed ALL of them in the back at various points and always managed to walk away LOL) James cocky performance the fact that he was actually a bit smarter than the group in some ways despite everyone thinking he was just a thug. (Like exploiting their weaknesses, spotting how ridiculous Angel and Buffy's friendship was.) And the fact he got the best lines, made him my favourite by far.

He really was like Crowley from Supernatural, but about ten years earlier. Sadly by having him fall in love with Buffy. They made him into just another cliched romantic Vampire or monster character. They also made his entire character about Buffy, and worst of all turned him into a mini Angel. Pretty much every Spike storyline in season 7 is an inferior retread of Angel's story arcs from seasons 1-3 of Buffy.

I don't buy into the crap of there was nothing you could do with wacky Vampire neighbour Spike after season 4. Supernatural managed it with Crowley for years. Joss IMO was just being lay and thought "let's just redo Angel again." Also by making Spike a big mopey Angel type, they took away everything we liked about Spike.

I don't want to see Spike moping on a cross, Spike saying how much he loves Buffy. I want to watch him make fun of people and be a slimy backstabber LOL.

I can easily see Spike of season 4 not siding with Glory as her plan would threaten the entire multiverse. Hey he already helped Buffy without a Chip in season 2. Why couldn't it have been that again. You could have still fleshed him out, had him become friends with Dawn or Willow or whatever, but to have him become just a romantic character was lazy.

Buffy meanwhile I think it was arguably even worse for. In order to have her sleep with a guy who had been tormenting her and her loved ones for years, they had to have her have a breakdown for an entire year.

As someone who has suffered chronic mental health problems, I am of course not saying you should never explore that. Still in this case it stopped Buffy from being the empowering, feisty Vampire killer we all knew and loved.

Also they had to have other characters act completely out of character too like kicking Buffy out to make Spuffy be more special. Really Spuffy was a noose around the shows neck in the later years.

2/ The mythology of the show is just as important.

People act as though the monsters were just filler and the relationships and soap opera were the most important parts of the show. WRONG!

It was both. Yes it was great the way Buffy featured a more down to earth super hero, and merged the paranormal with everyday problems, but the paranormal still had to be interesting!

Buffy came up with some inspired takes on old monsters, and it always put so much effort in the first 5 seasons at least into making the monsters of the week interesting.

IMO it lost its way when it came to focus too much on the soap opera elements in season 6.

3/ Anya was the worst character.

I've already done a thread about this so I won't repeat. Though Emma Caulfield is a great actress and was very funny and likable, the character of Anya made no sense, brought nothing to the show really and was just a boring stand in for Cordelia.

4/ Season 4 is great and Adam was a good villain

I think season 4 was the perfect transitional season. You couldn't jump from season 3 to the darkness of 5. You needed a fun, light hearted year. Season 4 is the shows comedy at its best.

Also I think with this in mind Adam was the perfect villain for Buffy to face that year. He lacked the personal connection to Buffy that Faith, Angelus, even Glory via Dawn had. He was if you will a professional enemy, IE it was all business. At the same time unlike the Master Buffy was more experienced and so didn't feel quite as hopeless. He didn't tear her life apart like those villains, but at the same time he was a legit threat and beating him did still feel like an accomplishment for the Buffster.

I think season 4 sets up season 5 perfectly. I remember Kate Nash saying that season 5 was the best because it starts out so well for Buffy but then everything in her life goes to shit by the end, it's just so powerful and unexpected. I agree, but you couldn't do that without season 4.

5/ Buffy and Angel both had the perfect endings

Well okay I didn't like it that it wasn't Buffy who saved the day in the last story. (She sort of did but it was still Spike that did most of the leg work.)

Still the message behind both was true to both series. Angel is about fighting because it's the right thing to do. Even if there's no reward, no pay off, even if you don't win, you still fight. What better way to show that than Angel and his crew going to fight a battle they seemingly can't win?

Buffy meanwhile was about this woman, breaking free of a patriarchal organisations control. (The Watchers council.) Even the Buffy movie got that. She does things differently to the previous Slayers. She thinks for herself and doesn't just play by their rules, so she is finally able to kill Lothos. Similarly in the Buffy finale, Buffy and Willow, defy the Shadow Men's rules and as a result they not only beat the first but make the world a better place for everyone.

6/ Fray is better than all the Buffy comics.

I don't know if this is unpopuar, as the comics are polarizing, and Fray was well recieved. However I think Fray is obscure, so what the hell I'm going to say Fray is better than all the comics and should be the way the Buffyverse continues rather than a remake.
 

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
503
Age
63
Okay mine have been stated elsewhere but what the hell, cool idea for a thread.

1/ Spuffy was mostly terrible.

There are some parts I like. James and Sarah have great chemistry, and it comes a to a reasonably satisfying conclusion in Chosen.

However I think it let down both Spike and Buffy as characters for the following reasons.

As I have said before S2-4 Spike was a brilliant, original take on a good guy Vampire. One who isn't a nice guy, but is practical. IE he's not so evil that he'll destroy the world on a whim. He actually is smart enough to realise he has a pretty good position the way it is now. In the modern world he's a wolf among the sheep. If the world is sucked into hell, he could be quite low down on the Demon pecking order!

He also enjoys the shallow vices of the human world. Demons probably wouldn't make as good music, tv or sports as we do LOL. That coupled with his chronic backstabbing (Angelus, Drusilla, Buffy, that Vamp in the Initiative, the Scoobies, etc He stabbed ALL of them in the back at various points and always managed to walk away LOL) James cocky performance the fact that he was actually a bit smarter than the group in some ways despite everyone thinking he was just a thug. (Like exploiting their weaknesses, spotting how ridiculous Angel and Buffy's friendship was.) And the fact he got the best lines, made him my favourite by far.

He really was like Crowley from Supernatural, but about ten years earlier. Sadly by having him fall in love with Buffy. They made him into just another cliched romantic Vampire or monster character. They also made his entire character about Buffy, and worst of all turned him into a mini Angel. Pretty much every Spike storyline in season 7 is an inferior retread of Angel's story arcs from seasons 1-3 of Buffy.

I don't buy into the crap of there was nothing you could do with wacky Vampire neighbour Spike after season 4. Supernatural managed it with Crowley for years. Joss IMO was just being lay and thought "let's just redo Angel again." Also by making Spike a big mopey Angel type, they took away everything we liked about Spike.

I don't want to see Spike moping on a cross, Spike saying how much he loves Buffy. I want to watch him make fun of people and be a slimy backstabber LOL.

I can easily see Spike of season 4 not siding with Glory as her plan would threaten the entire multiverse. Hey he already helped Buffy without a Chip in season 2. Why couldn't it have been that again. You could have still fleshed him out, had him become friends with Dawn or Willow or whatever, but to have him become just a romantic character was lazy.

Buffy meanwhile I think it was arguably even worse for. In order to have her sleep with a guy who had been tormenting her and her loved ones for years, they had to have her have a breakdown for an entire year.

As someone who has suffered chronic mental health problems, I am of course not saying you should never explore that. Still in this case it stopped Buffy from being the empowering, feisty Vampire killer we all knew and loved.

Also they had to have other characters act completely out of character too like kicking Buffy out to make Spuffy be more special. Really Spuffy was a noose around the shows neck in the later years.

2/ The mythology of the show is just as important.

People act as though the monsters were just filler and the relationships and soap opera were the most important parts of the show. WRONG!

It was both. Yes it was great the way Buffy featured a more down to earth super hero, and merged the paranormal with everyday problems, but the paranormal still had to be interesting!

Buffy came up with some inspired takes on old monsters, and it always put so much effort in the first 5 seasons at least into making the monsters of the week interesting.

IMO it lost its way when it came to focus too much on the soap opera elements in season 6.

3/ Anya was the worst character.

I've already done a thread about this so I won't repeat. Though Emma Caulfield is a great actress and was very funny and likable, the character of Anya made no sense, brought nothing to the show really and was just a boring stand in for Cordelia.

4/ Season 4 is great and Adam was a good villain

I think season 4 was the perfect transitional season. You couldn't jump from season 3 to the darkness of 5. You needed a fun, light hearted year. Season 4 is the shows comedy at its best.

Also I think with this in mind Adam was the perfect villain for Buffy to face that year. He lacked the personal connection to Buffy that Faith, Angelus, even Glory via Dawn had. He was if you will a professional enemy, IE it was all business. At the same time unlike the Master Buffy was more experienced and so didn't feel quite as hopeless. He didn't tear her life apart like those villains, but at the same time he was a legit threat and beating him did still feel like an accomplishment for the Buffster.

I think season 4 sets up season 5 perfectly. I remember Kate Nash saying that season 5 was the best because it starts out so well for Buffy but then everything in her life goes to shit by the end, it's just so powerful and unexpected. I agree, but you couldn't do that without season 4.

5/ Buffy and Angel both had the perfect endings

Well okay I didn't like it that it wasn't Buffy who saved the day in the last story. (She sort of did but it was still Spike that did most of the leg work.)

Still the message behind both was true to both series. Angel is about fighting because it's the right thing to do. Even if there's no reward, no pay off, even if you don't win, you still fight. What better way to show that than Angel and his crew going to fight a battle they seemingly can't win?

Buffy meanwhile was about this woman, breaking free of a patriarchal organisations control. (The Watchers council.) Even the Buffy movie got that. She does things differently to the previous Slayers. She thinks for herself and doesn't just play by their rules, so she is finally able to kill Lothos. Similarly in the Buffy finale, Buffy and Willow, defy the Shadow Men's rules and as a result they not only beat the first but make the world a better place for everyone.

6/ Fray is better than all the Buffy comics.

I don't know if this is unpopuar, as the comics are polarizing, and Fray was well recieved. However I think Fray is obscure, so what the hell I'm going to say Fray is better than all the comics and should be the way the Buffyverse continues rather than a remake.
I agree completely, particularly that Spuffy feels like a noose around the shows necks and more importantly around the characters necks. What happened to the show that spent the entirety of S3 showing that a vampire relationship would make Buffy deeply unhappy and how unfair Angel would be to keep her from a tiny bit of normality. Buffy acknowledging that actually yes that’s correct and it could never work. Now instead we have ‘this vampire is the only one who understands Buffy’ (he doesn’t. He gets her wrong almost every single time). Spike has to be woobified and stops being the fun character he has been, other than his stuff with Buffy he has almost no other part in the show in S6 and in S7 she has to be the one to prop him up because he has no relationship with any other characters

S7 Spike is the biggest example of a ‘nice guy’ in the entire show for me. Buffy is constantly made to feel obliged to take care of him and defend him because ‘I got a soul for you!’ And because as she says ‘he’s been through a lot’ and it’s because he got this soul ‘for her’. In Get it Done he all but tells her ‘what more do you want from me’ because she finally pulls him on his crap.’the soul the changes it’s what you wanted!’ Actually no Spike it wasn’t, she wanted you to move on and leave her alone, she said it enough times. Except instead she’s basically ‘nice guyed’ into accepting him back into the fold because he did this big thing for her. If she casts him out it makes her look a hypocrite considering her support of Angel, she’s basically in a lose lose situation and she’s consistently the one all season having to face the consequences for his actions and decisions. She’s the one that gets the most flack for defending him in the trigger plot because apparently Spike is such a wooby he should be told what he should and shouldn’t be doing. Robin, Giles and Spike act like dicks in LMPTM, Buffy’s conclusion to it is basically ‘I’m staying out of it’ (albeit in a harsh way) but ends up being literally the only one to face any kind of consequence - no one post this episode seems to hold anything against Robin, Giles or Spike and they get to go on like nothing happened and yet it’s Buffy getting the stink eye. It just bothers me that Buffy seems to face the consequences of not just her own actions but Spikes also

Honestly we can debate the complexities at length but honestly mostly I just think it’s absolutely miserable as sin. We know Sarah didn’t like S6 but also James hated a lot of it also. They both while clearly enjoying working together preferred other relationships because they weren’t constant misery -I can imagine this got pretty tedious for the both of them. Particularly when they’d both been such fun characters
 
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
53
Age
47
Whedon will come through the current crisis mostly unscathed (though with a little damage to his credibility).
I think you have just won the prize for most unpopular opinion on the unpopular opinions thread :)

But I do agree that in a year or 2 when emotions have cooled he will start to work again, especially if The Nevers is a success

I dont have a problem with that - I dont think we can demand that he never works again when most of the allegations are from 20 years ago
And hopefully he will have learnt something from all this

Dawn was not that great of a character and it's telling that her popularity only increased in Season 7 when she was basically pushed to the side lines.
I never hated Dawn like some people did, but for me she was always just there hanging around. I think it would have been better if she was only in S5

Season 5 is not the best Season of Buffy, is pretty weak with the seasonal arc of Glory, and is only given more credit than it is due due to some standout episodes such as Fool For Love and The Body.
I really like S5 and I like Glory and her minions, but it does surprise me how great some people say the S5 arc is.

We see how powerful Glory is early on and then the arc goes into a holding pattern until about the last 4 episodes of the season. Of those The Gift is a great episode but Eps 19 - 21 are good rather than great
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
8,991
Age
30
I think you have just won the prize for most unpopular opinion on the unpopular opinions thread :)

But I do agree that in a year or 2 when emotions have cooled he will start to work again, especially if The Nevers is a success

I dont have a problem with that - I dont think we can demand that he never works again when most of the allegations are from 20 years ago
And hopefully he will have learnt something from all this
I think the Gina Carano stuff has taken precedence and is more relevant to people on account of how politically motivated the bullying she received was. Also the fact that is is an actual current event. Nobody cares to hear Fisher having a tantrum and playing the race card because he didn't get his own way with Whedon, nor do they particularly care about CC waiting 17+ years to stick the boot in whilst other Buffy cast members jump on the bandwagon. Whedon's behaviour wasn't great but Hollywood has its own set of rules, and whilst there is a discussion to be had on how actors (which includes white male ones too) are treated, Whedon's behaviour does not affect the normal person.

However, Gina Carano has fallen victim to the ever growing cancel culture which is affecting normal people. Just because she expressed a view that a certain faction didn't agree with (she didn't want to put pronouns on her bio), they harassed and bullied her. You only have to look at how people are treated for not voting democrat or even just for being not far left enough to know that there is a problem in America right now. Carano is just a very public example of being punished for "wrong think".

I never hated Dawn like some people did, but for me she was always just there hanging around. I think it would have been better if she was only in S5
I completely agree she had no purpose beyond Season 5 and it would've been better if she had been the one to jump so the character could be written out, however that would make her seem like even more of a plot device than she already is.

I really like S5 and I like Glory and her minions, but it does surprise me how great some people say the S5 arc is.

We see how powerful Glory is early on and then the arc goes into a holding pattern until about the last 4 episodes of the season. Of those The Gift is a great episode but Eps 19 - 21 are good rather than great
Glory and her minions are fun characters but I think they would've worked better as mini-arc villains rather than a seasonal one. Also they kind of went too "big" with Glory. As a hell god, she'd seem like a final season kind of villain, instead they followed her with a trio of nerds which seems like a step down. The trio aren't bad villains but they look weak in comparison to a hell god.

I don't buy into the crap of there was nothing you could do with wacky Vampire neighbour Spike after season 4. Supernatural managed it with Crowley for years. Joss IMO was just being lay and thought "let's just redo Angel again." Also by making Spike a big mopey Angel type, they took away everything we liked about Spike.
Agreed. Also I think the Robin/Spike situation would've been more interesting if Spike didn't have his soul. The soul gives Spike a get out of jail free card plus it makes all of Buffy's decisions regarding Spike justified. However you can see how Giles would question Buffy's decision making if she chose to remove Spike's chip despite him being soulless (essentially giving him back his Season 2 potential threat level). Buffy would remove the chip out of mercy because it was slowly and painfully killing Spike (and she is a compassionate person who doesn't want to cause unnecessary suffering) but he is now without some kind of muzzle. The First could've really used that to divide the group instead of doing what it did.

I agree completely, particularly that Spuffy feels like a noose around the shows necks and more importantly around the characters necks.
Agreed, and like you said Spuffy made both Buffy and Spike absolutely miserable.
 

Faded90

Scooby
Joined
Apr 2, 2020
Messages
503
Age
63
Agreed, and like you said Spuffy made both Buffy and Spike absolutely miserable.
Obviously Sarah’s comments have always been repeated a lot re S6 but I feel like people forget that James seemed to hate it just as much. He’s been vocal about hating all of the nude scenes he was having to do and how much weight he lost. He’s clearly uncomfortable about how romanticised the relationship was every time he’s asked about it. It’s clear from the dailies that he and Sarah got along well but it’s hardly surprising they each preferred Bangel and Sprusilla and not having to play constant misery
 
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