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Was Buffy or Xander more persuasive about killing or not killing Anya in Selfless?

Who was more persuasive in the argument about killing (or not killing) Anya in Selfless?

  • Buffy

    Votes: 24 72.7%
  • Xander

    Votes: 9 27.3%

  • Total voters
    33

FaithLehane16

"Five by Five."
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
906
Age
25
Location
United States
It was terribly unfair of Xander expecting Buffy to not kill Anya, when he expected her to kill Angel. The man can't have his cake and eat it, too. Yeah, love is blind, but your safety is more of a priority. It was costing the lives of Sunnydale when Anyanka was granting vengeance wishes just like when Angelus was when he opened up Acathla.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,010
Age
48
Spike was the sole reason there was a split between Buffy and Giles, and her reliance on the vamp meant she could push everyone else away and rely on 'her strongest warrior' and act like her friends don't matter. Spike's attitude enabled Buffy's worst impulses.

The Potentials were always gonna be on her case but it wasn't just them, it was everyone.
No it wasn't. Giles's issues were to do with over compensation for his mistake in leaving the previous year and trying to strike the balance that a parent is always trying to do of stopping their kids from making mistakes and trusting their judgement. The stakes were very high so he felt that the risk Spike posed was too great, Buffy had a different perspective. Giles's also had emotional baggage from Angelus that influenced him which he'd never really had much opportunity to really deal with.

Buffy never acted like her friends didn't matter or at least that wasn't the issue - it was that she's got used to having to bury her pain and keep trying to work on the problem in front of her and her friends and Dawn have never really got that if she allowed herself to grieve in front of them she wouldn't be able to keep going. Kennedy was stirring as she thought SHE should be in charge and Anya had unresolved issues with Buffy that coloured her worldview and being Anya lacked the emotional intelligence to really think about them in a way that didn't involved being bitter and resentful towards Buffy. Anya never really got that in order to recieve mercy it helps if it at least looks like you're trying to atone and in the moment under discussion her it really didn't look to the outsider eye - i.e. Buffy's like Anya gave a tiny rat's bum.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
7,401
Age
29
Kennedy was stirring as she thought SHE should be in charge
Kennedy really should've been put in her place by the scoobies. She got away with a hell of a lot and wasn't called out on it.

and Anya had unresolved issues with Buffy that coloured her worldview and being Anya lacked the emotional intelligence to really think about them in a way that didn't involved being bitter and resentful towards Buffy.
I agree. I think Anya has always been a little distrustful of Buffy. During the "I'll never tell" song, she sings "when things get rough, he just hides behind his Buffy, now look he's getting huffy because he knows that I know". Anya probably only asked Buffy to be bridesmaid because it would look highly suspect if she didn't, considering the rest of the female scoobies were all part of the wedding party.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,075
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
No it wasn't. Giles's issues were to do with over compensation for his mistake in leaving the previous year and trying to strike the balance that a parent is always trying to do of stopping their kids from making mistakes and trusting their judgement.
Rubbish. Giles simply had a serious issue with Buffy letting trigger-Spike wander around unchained even when Buffy now 'knew' for a fact (in LMPTM to be exact) that Spike could be triggered by the First and yet she didn't care and refused to listen. It was after that that Giles took the same steps he took in regards to Ben/Glory or would perhaps had done with Dawn. Ended the threat for the sake of the greater mission.
Spike was hardly Dawn innocent, he wasn't even Ben innocent, so Giles actions are in character. Buffy's are not.
 

katmobile

Scooby
Joined
Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,010
Age
48
Rubbish. Giles simply had a serious issue with Buffy letting trigger-Spike wander around unchained even when Buffy now 'knew' for a fact (in LMPTM to be exact) that Spike could be triggered by the First and yet she didn't care and refused to listen. It was after that that Giles took the same steps he took in regards to Ben/Glory or would perhaps had done with Dawn. Ended the threat for the sake of the greater mission.
Spike was hardly Dawn innocent, he wasn't even Ben innocent, so Giles actions are in character. Buffy's are not.
No Spike wasn't 'Ben innocent' he let Glory beat seven shades of shit out of him rather than tell her Dawn was the key Ben helped Glory prep Dawn for sacrifice to save his own arse. Giles didn't know that although he was smart enough to work it out so no Spike wasn't 'Ben innocent' in some ways he was more so since the first had triggered him as a result of being ensouled - in this instance at least.
Also #not all Spuffies if you've got a problem with me that don't tar everyone else with the same brush we're not a Borg like hive mind. If you're getting a lot of flack from that quarter then maybe it could be that the opinions you express and the way they're being expressed are not making you friends there. Strong opinions will give you kick back like that.
 
Last edited:

GreyWalker1958

Potential
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
121
Age
31
Seeking redemption is for pussies. It doesn't automatically make someone noble and wonderful. Combined, Spike and Angel killed far more people than Anya ever did. Either way, she didn't kill for pleasure, like Spike and Angel. She tormented men who had wronged women, which I support wholehearted.
Only for two of them to attempt to get back at her. One died trying (Olaf) while the other (Stuart) while killed eventually, got away with his revenge in more ways than one
 

WillowFromBuffy

To be or not to evil.
Joined
May 11, 2019
Messages
711
Age
31
Seeking redemption is for pussies. It doesn't automatically make someone noble and wonderful. Combined, Spike and Angel killed far more people than Anya ever did. Either way, she didn't kill for pleasure, like Spike and Angel. She tormented men who had wronged women, which I support wholehearted.
Anya has killed much more people than any other character. She has been alive for more than a millenium and she started the Russian Revolution.

Anya used to take pleasure in killing and in causing pain.

Apart from Ronnie, who was an "abusive bastard", the men Anya takes vengeance upon have generally not done anything all that serious. She turns Sunnydale into a haven for vampires, because a teenager kissed a girl behind his girlfriend's back.

All the wish spells end up threatening the lives of the person who made the wish, including the one that Halfrek casts on behalf of Dawn. We can therefore assume that Anya and Halfrek have killed several of the women and children who wished things from them ... and then there are the millions of people who died in the Russian Civil War.
 

Honoria Dedlock

Potential
Joined
Dec 20, 2019
Messages
111
Age
31
Anya has killed much more people than any other character. She has been alive for more than a millenium and she started the Russian Revolution.

Anya used to take pleasure in killing and in causing pain.

Apart from Ronnie, who was an "abusive bastard", the men Anya takes vengeance upon have generally not done anything all that serious. She turns Sunnydale into a haven for vampires, because a teenager kissed a girl behind his girlfriend's back.

All the wish spells end up threatening the lives of the person who made the wish, including the one that Halfrek casts on behalf of Dawn. We can therefore assume that Anya and Halfrek have killed several of the women and children who wished things from them ... and then there are the millions of people who died in the Russian Civil War.
It's staggering how much evil Anya has commited...The Master, The Mayor, Glory and the first evil are small potatoes compared to the hyper-capitalist murderess! Why they didn't kill her or at least try to have some sort of trial (maybe run by the watchers) for her, I'll never know.
 
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