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Was LIlah ever really that evil?.

Benz

Potential
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Jul 25, 2016
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144
Age
28
After rewatch I sure Lilah not as evil as once did and yes Lilah is nasty B***h.

But I did notched Lilah really just like to talk evil to survive W&H and only people she ever killed was Linwood who was evil and Billy but I mean he was different type of human and Billy was kind evil himself.

Yes not forgotten what she said she was going to do to Connor when he was baby but I somehow think she would not had went thought we it and was just Lilah talking big to impress senior partners.

Yes she did say to couple of times I kill you family if don't get job done but I mean what she says and if she went thought with it was other thing.

Only reason she mess with Cordelia and Lorne minds were get information and Lilah said herself she never wanted Cordelia hurt just wanted information.

Lilah gave device to Angel gave to Buffy and save day and Lilah said she trying all she can to get Cordelia to wake form her coma.

Lilah also let Wesley know Conner is trap with beast.

By no means saying Lilah was good person but don't think she was as evil as she like to think she was.
 

Athena

Has anyone seen my human vessel?
Staff member
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Black Thorn
Lilah was a survivor, she knew what had to be done to get the job done. She wasn't good, but she wasn't evil, she just knew her purpose. I think Lilah is a brilliantly constructed character because by all rights you should hate her, but Stephanie Romanov plays her with such a glint in her eye that she's just mesmerizing to watch at her wicked best.

She walked the walk and talked the talk, but I do think she did have a heart.
 

Athene

Scooby
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Sineya
Lilah was evil and owned it that's why I love her :D
She didn't pretend to be some victim of wolfram and hart, she knows she chose this job and chose to be evil.
Lilah did not just talk big, she got her hands dirty plenty too and had no problem with that at all. It brought the money in.
 

Anyanka Bunny Slayer

Hail Hydra 💀
Joined
Dec 17, 2015
Messages
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Black Thorn
Lilah was ruthless and conflicted, but not evil. In fact, she had a soft side that she desperately tried to keep hidden.

Lilah: "Don't be thinking about me when I'm gone."

Wesley: "I wasn't thinking about you while you were here."

Ouch!!!! What a thing to say to a girl right after sex. And did you see her slight hesitation as she left? Her eyes were just...so wounded. That was a gut kick for me.
 

white avenger

white avenger
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Lilah isn't evil, she's just loyal to her employers. She never went out of her way to actually hurt anyone, except for that one guy who beat her up, and he needed killing anyhow. In old western movies, it's called "riding for the brand." As long as you're taking someone's wages, you protect and defend his interests.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
Because Lilah is "evil", Wesley feels he has the right to act superior and be dismissive of her feelings. I love it when the bad guys are more sympathetic than the good guys.

I agree with @Athene in that Lilah scores some points by owning her evil. Angel and Wesley are supposedly good guys that sometimes partake in random acts of violence or stabs or strangles their friends half to death.
 

Carrie Hopewell

Little girl lost in the woods
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Sineya
Angel and Wesley are supposedly good guys that sometimes partake in random acts of violence or stabs or strangles their friends half to death.
LOL. Wesley had just kidnapped Angel's son, which got him taken into a hell dimension - presumed dead because no one thought Holtz would take care of a baby. A lot of humans in his situation would've been enraged to the point of committing murder. And we all know Wesley would've been dead if Angel had wished it.
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
LOL. Wesley had just kidnapped Angel's son, which got him taken into a hell dimension - presumed dead because no one thought Holtz would take care of a baby. A lot of humans in his situation would've been enraged to the point of committing murder. And we all know Wesley would've been dead if Angel had wished it.
Yes, but you get what I mean, no? Lilah does not to pretend to be good, so all her sympathetic qualities become surprising bonuses. Angel and Wesley claim to be champions, so we are shocked each time they do something bad.
 

The Bronze

Rogue Demon Hunter
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Black Thorn
She was actively trying to bring about The Apocalypse. So yes, she was that evil.
 

Carrie Hopewell

Little girl lost in the woods
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Sineya
Yes, but you get what I mean, no? Lilah does not to pretend to be good, so all her sympathetic qualities become surprising bonuses. Angel and Wesley claim to be champions, so we are shocked each time they do something bad.
Sure, I also love the fact that Lilah never claims to be good and is very upfront and comfortable with being evil.

I just don't find Angel a self-righteous person. He rarely is, because, yes, he is a champion, but being one doesn't imply being good. Champion:
  1. : a militant advocate or defender a champion of civil rights

  2. : one that does battle for another's rights or honor
Angel never claims to be the most noble person or the best person, he claims only to be a champion for humanity - one who does battle for the rights of others, a defender of humanity. So when he does something bad, I don't mind it because I understand where he is coming from and because I know he's aware of his mistakes. He doesn't judge people harshly and he forgives because he understands the imperfection of people and what it's like to fail being a good person (case in point, he pretty much forgave Lilah for all the shit she pulled, he forgave Wesley).

You said, Wes and Angel were supposedly "good guys" who unlike Lilah didn't own up to his misdeeds, but they both do. When Wes stabbed Gunn, he was aware he did so because he was hurt over Fred and he told Illyria that killing Knox wasn't an act of justice. Angel knew some of his actions in season 2 where "morally questionable", for example, and he fixed the mistake he made back in the 50s at the Hyperion Hotel.

I don't know, I got defensive...
 
Anyway, at a certain point, Lilah's vendetta against Angel wasn't just a professional matter. We can't claim that all Lilah did was for the sake of survival when she was trying to kill or hurt the A.I. team even without orders from her superiors. She teamed up with Sahjhan to kill Angel even if W&H didn't intend to do that.

However, I do find Lilah a bit more amoral (whatever that is since it doesn't really exist) than imoral. She doesn't care about doing good so has no qualms against doing evil for money. However, she also does evil for her own sake, but not really because it's evil, it's rather because it's convenient.

I don't think I'd describe Lilah as evil, I'd describe her more as in not giving a f---. Still, her actions in Sleep Tight got a child hurt and she didn't care - nor did she enjoy it. Surely, that makes her a bit evil? Also, she really just wanted to stir shit up at A.I and got a kick out of it. Again, that's a bit evil, no?
 
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WillowFromBuffy

Guest
@Carrie Hopewell Remember that I am an outspoken member of Team Spike. "Take a good look "hero"! I am nothing like you." Best! Quote! Ever! :p

Wesley and Lilah are interesting. Wesley seems to believe that Lilah is undeserving of personhood, she he can treat her like crap, even though he sleeps with her. Lilah is sensitive and caring and he spits in her face. To me, emotions, relationships and empathy matter more than abstract ideas of good and evil. I cannot deny that Lilah does some shady things, but at least she treats her lovers well.
 

Athene

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Sineya
I think what makes a character evil is consistency. For example I consider Warren, Lilah and Angelus evil because for the duration of the series they're doing evil things and have no strong remorse for their actions.
Good people can go through periods when they're evil, and bad people can do good things sometimes, however not conistently.
Angel does good things consistently and occasionally he does evil things too. Therefore I don't consider Angel evil, Angelus definitely but not Angel.

On the Wesley/Lilah relationship I don't think that Wes felt superior to Lilah, I think that he felt just as evil as her and therefore loved her company (as in companionship not her company wolfram and hart).
 

GraceK

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I think Lilah represents a very human type of evil. She's not sitting in dark lair cackling about ending the world, she's eating caviar and drinking martinis while her employers are torturing people.

She has basically made a devils bargain, the good life in exchange for her soul. I'm not even being dramatic, there's a reason WH employees contracts extend after death. Her eternity will be working for them in hell . She doesn't directly harm anyone ONSCREEN as far as we know ( except Linwood and Billy) but she has no problem ordering the deaths of children, torturing Cordelia by proxy, attempting to kidnap a baby for the sole purpose of cutting it open ALIVE, and various other horrible things. There's no reason to believe she just says horrible things for the sake of saying them, what's refreshing about her is that she MEANS what she says, and she's not afraid to get her hands dirty. She will act on her threats with no problem, and get a manicure later. She's self serving completely and will always put herself first at the expense of everything Else.

Did she love Wesley? I don't know. She was nice to him when they were together, and The actress plays her with such depth that it's possible Lilah did care for him in her own way. But he's the only one she shows any type of emotion for...she's not in any way caring or sympathetic . We know she loves her mother but other than that we see nothing else onscreen that gives her any empathy. For example, One of her best scenes IMO is when she says she is not like Lindsay, she has no moral conflicts. She knows exactly what she has signed up for and she has no problem doing her job. She's ruthless, interesting, intelligent and sexy. She's pretty awesome all across the board. But, IMO she is evil. I love her even more for being so unapologetic about it.
 

Fool for Buffy

I'm just being a big nerd again
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Sineya
Sometimes evil is just fun, and Lilah makes it look like she could live her whole life not caring about the consequences of a single thing she does. Yes, she is just trying to do her job, but she clearly only took her job because she has no remorse. She is cruel and wicked and vengeful and those are her best qualities. Her relationship with Wes didn't change that. She may have cared for him or even loved him but that doesn't make her a better person. And I have to mention that the way she decapitated Linwood was fabulous.
 

Bluebird

two by two, hands of blue
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6,250
Black Thorn
Lilah was pragmatically evil, as a symptom of her self interest. She understood her world and took advantage where she could. I admired her honesty over who she was.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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Sep 11, 2017
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My belief is that the perpetual service clause, like any true deal with the devil, is only enforceable for the damned. That is to say, they don't offer those agreements to guys like Numero Cinco. The Senior Partners consider it an honor to serve them in perpetuity, and it's only done with employees who have earned the firm's confidence and have been granted a certain amount of power from it in exchange for their knowing service. Lilah had one, Manners had one. Wes had one, but nobody cares about the comics. So, yes, in order to get that far in W&H, you can't be neutral or good.
 

PaulParmar1

Spuffy Forever
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Sineya
This is how I feel about Lilah.
I don't think she's good or bad. I think Lilah is like she says in the "grey" area. She does what she needs to do and continues on. Lilah adapts to every situation whether it requires her to be accommodating, nasty or more.
I love that Lilah is a complex character and you could look at every one of her appearances and argue something different.
 
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