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Was Wesley right to take Connor?

Wesxfred

You know what they say about payback...
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Recently, I was doing another rewatch of Angel season 3 and it made me empathize more with Wesley and his reasons for taking Connor.
In my opinion, I think Wesley was right to take Connor, but the way he went about it (ie: going to Holtz) was completely wrong.

Wesley had been completely isolated from the group, and even though he didn't tell anyone, it is evident that he only did this to protect them. He tried to disprove the prophecy, he tried to ignore the fact that Angel could harm his own son but no matter hard he tried, the prophecy seemed to be coming true, and he himself was a witness to Angel's increasing anger towards Connor. It was a really difficult situation for him, but in the end, he realized that taking Connor away would result in less trauma for everyone in the long run. I mean, he was convinced that this prophecy was coming true, and he knew that If Angel had murdered his son, it would destroy him. On top of this, there was no one who he felt he could go to. Angel was out of the question, he didn't want to get between Fred and Gunn, Cordy was gone and Lorne wasn't around enough. So he went to Holtz, which I don't think he shouldn't have done, but he only did it to guarantee that his family at Angel Investigations would be safe.

Should he have taken Connor? Should he have told someone? Should he have gone to Holtz?
What are your opinions on this?
😀😜
 

Feigenbunny

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I have mixed feelings on this.
Im really surprised that he didn't tell anyone. o my first watch I definitely thought he would tell Fred or Cordelia and was amazed that he went to holtz of all people but it was good to kidnap connor and get him away from angel. After all, the earthquake fire blood thing did come true so angel could've killed connor at any moment. So wes did what he thought was best - to get Connor away as quick as possible, which i agree was a good decision but at the same time, He didn't stay loyal to angel though so i hate him a little for that.
 

Puppet

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I've always been on the side of Wesley making the right choice, but not handling it the best way. Also, the writers getting rid of Cordy stinks of 'Wes would've gone to Cordelia so we should make something up to get the drama we want from the story' and I just hate it. That being said, I totally get Angel's reaction and attempt to kill Wes, too. It's the kind of storyline where I think it's really hard to pick an actual side because that's not the point of it.
 

Ethan Reigns

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Connor was the child of two vampires, something that most people would have thought impossible and had never been known to happen in the history of the world. There was no way to know whether he would turn out to be a normal human, a monster, a psychopath or any other possibility. It could easily have come to the point where he would have endangered the world and a scenario may have been that Angel would have been the only one capable of stopping him. Did Wesley ever give any thought to the idea that Angel might have had to kill Connor?

None of Wesley's training would have covered this possibility because it was not considered possible. We see Wesley's ego at work here and the possibility that the message might have been fake news never occurred to him. The fact that Angel Investigations had set itself up as an enemy of Wolfram & Hart should have alerted him to the possibility that the prediction was bogus. His unwillingness to talk to his co-workers is understandable but his belief in his own ability to decipher the text (which he did) and authenticate it (which he did not do) is the mark of an ego that knows no bounds.
 
Myheadsgonenumb
Myheadsgonenumb
he does try to authenticate it - he goes to see the Loa.

WillowFromBuffy

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I've always been on the side of Wesley making the right choice, but not handling it the best way. Also, the writers getting rid of Cordy stinks of 'Wes would've gone to Cordelia so we should make something up to get the drama we want from the story' and I just hate it. That being said, I totally get Angel's reaction and attempt to kill Wes, too. It's the kind of storyline where I think it's really hard to pick an actual side because that's not the point of it.
Charisma got some time off due to her miscarriage, so it wasn't something the writers had planned.
 

white avenger

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Should (Wesley) have taken Connor? Should he have told someone? Should he have gone to Holtz?
What are your opinions on this?
Should Wes have taken Connor? Given what he was led to believe would happen if he didn't get Connor away from Angel, yes.

Should he have told someone? Probably, but I think that he was reluctant to get anyone else involved in case something went wrong, which...surprise...surprise... is exactly what did happen. If he had had someone else with him, Holtz probably wouldn't have gotten away with Connor, or at least not so easily.

My opinion on this? I've gone on record here and other places on several occasions by saying that, if it does nothing else, this story line illustrates what is probably Angel's single biggest shortcoming: He can dish it out, but he can't take it. How is Wes' action in this matter one single bit different from what Angel does, again and again, before and after this point, with no consideration whatsoever to any others involved, when he takes it upon himself to decide that "the greater good" is somehow subject to his, and his alone, judgement?

Whenever I see this scene play out I can't help but wonder what Buffy's reaction would have been if she had ever found out how Angel took her miracle day away from her in "I Will Remember You," and if Angel would have ever been able to convince her that he was really only doing it for her own good.
 

fauxindigo

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I think it would've gone ALOT better if he had just told the group, Fred, Gunn, Angel etc.. but then we wouldn't have had the big dramatic plot developments which isn't just A story but pretty exciting and insane (Angel trying to suffocate Wesley in the hospital bed! :oops:) one; it also does make sense with Wesleys character that by Angel season 3 he wasn't as pompous as he was in Buffy season 3 but he still thought he knew best/better than everyone else. If he didn't have this mindset, he would've told Fred if not Angel himself. If Angel was aware of the "prophecy" he could've and likely would've taken precautionary steps to protect Connor. Wesley just had to learn the hard way.
 

Feigenbunny

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i know i already replied to this thread but I just wanted to say that i was so surprised that he didnt tell FRed. on my first wathc i thought it was gonna be like:
1. fred and gun get together and Wesley is left out.
2. wesley finds the propechy but doesn't say anything
3. fred finds welseys notes and asks him about it.
4. fred is torn between being loyal to wesley and being loyal to gunn
5. eventually wesley and fred decide to put a spell on connor to protect him from vampires such as angel.
6. the spell does not affect holtz so he takes the baby
7. cordy comes back and gets connor back somehow and everything ends up well for the gang.

and that's how i thought it was gonna lay out, but we all know that there are no happy ever afters in the buffyverse
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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I think Wesley did the wrong thing but for the right reasons. Leaving the group and taking Connor, meaning to be gone forever, was a huge sacrifice on his part - he was leaving behind all the people he loved, where he had found a sense of purpose and where he had found a sense of himself and all so he could spare Angel the pain of killing his own son. It was an undeniably an act of love.

Probably he should have spoken to someone - maybe not Angel - but someone, and got a second opinion. But when it comes to Wesley and the way he behaves I always think of a line Giles says in The Gift: 'I've sworn to protect this sorry world and sometimes that means saying and doing things that others can't ... shouldn't have to'.
I think this is a central and guiding tenet of life as a watcher, and something both Giles and Wesley have grown up with since they were very young. Now, whether or not the watcher's council is blowing its own trumpet and patting its own back when it comes to noble sacrifice and not really getting the job done is definitely up for debate, but that is almost beside the point. The point is they believe it. They truly believe in a greater good and that they serve it, that they alone have the foresight and knowledge to decipher what this greater good is and the strength of character to see it through no matter what the cost.

For Wesley, he has uncovered this prophecy - he knows it to be true - and if Angel refuses to believe it or Fred and Gunn refuse to believe it (which I think he knows they would) he sees that as a weakness in them. He can't rely on their opinion because he does not believe they will react clinically and truthfully but will - as he would see it - bury their heads in the sand and refuse to believe. They cannot stare the hard, cold truth in the eye and face up to, unflinchingly. They can't do it - and they shouldn't have to. That is his job - and he has sworn to do it, so he will.

There is iron in Wesley's soul that is not there in anyone else's - and it's been put there, on purpose, by his years with the council, and his hours locked under the stairs. It's part of what he makes him the most complex of all the characters. He wants to be the champion, but he is the pragmatist who must do the unthinkable to save the actual champion from himself. So he takes Connor. It is his most compassionate, self sacrificing and heroic act - but it's also his biggest betrayal, a criminal act and ultimately his worst mistake.
 
Wesxfred
Wesxfred
Wow! Yeah totally agree.
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