Life lesson: Don't boink the undead to whom, technically, you're food.
Friends suggest a level of comfortableness and trust that I feel both relationships lack. They come close, but it does not last. It is possible to be lovers and friends. Tara and Will are a good example of that. Will doesn't need a confidante when she's with Tara.
Well, Will could certainly have used someone to talk to in S4. Still, I think Willow and Tara's relationship was qualitatively different from any of Buffy's. They both swore they would remain friends even if Will chose Oz. Could you imagine Angel or Spike doing that?Life lesson: Don't boink the undead to whom, technically, you're food.
Despite Spike's pithy line however, I do think that Buffy developed a friendship with both Angel and Spike.
Did Willow not need a confidante, or did she not have one? I think that's the difference for me concerning Tillow in this regard. I think Willow still needed one, but she and Buffy had drifted apart in that sense already.
I disagree. We see examples of them talking about things unrelated to their relationships. Some examples are:We never see them just talk.
All of this was during their relationship. If they hadn't talked at all, they wouldn't have been in a relationship. Before the relationship, he popped up to help, then vanished, so not friends then either. So... Were they a couple who talked? Yes. Did their friendship survive their relationship, I don't think it did. I think there was too much pain and not enough trust for that. But, of course, they cared and would care forever. But friendship is an interactive thing... and I don't EVER see Angel depend on Buffy. The closest they come to that was when he was poisoned and he wasn't really awake or aware for most of that. Buffy only really depends on him once as a friend/companion after their relationship, and that's when he comes for the funeral. Understand that I am NOT saying that either of them ever stop caring, but that the nature of their relationship was too fraught and Angel's personality was such that they couldn't be friends in any normal sense.I disagree. We see examples of them talking about things unrelated to their relationships. Some examples are:
So I think they had the foundation of a friendship.
- Lie to Me - Angel telling Buffy about his dark history with Dru. His obsession with her.
- WML - Convo in her bedroom re feeling left out and wanting to be normal.
- Ted - Convo about her mom and Ted's relationship
- Lovers Walk - Convo about college
- (I'll exclude Amends because so much of it is wrapped up in their complicated relationship but you could argue that this is Angel confessing his deepest darkest secrets regarding his biggest fears to Buffy)
- Gingerbread - Convo regarding the futility of the fight and whether what they do makes a difference.
- Helpless - Convo about Buffy's fears and concerns if she lost her powers and what it would mean to her
As I understand it what you are saying is that if one is in a relationship, and they have a friendly conversation it doesn't count towards friendship? I guess I see it differently. In the conversations above they are not merely talking to each other about the weather, of what they did the night before, they are talking about deep and meaningful things that are bothering one or both of them. I consider that the foundation of a strong friendship to share those conversations, seek council/advice etc.All of this was during their relationship. If they hadn't talked at all, they wouldn't have been in a relationship.
And you do see them interact - a great deal. Perhaps it is not to your liking- and that's fair after all there are interactions that I don't find appealing either. The early seasons tend to have more of a focus on telling the story through Buffy's perspective versus Angel's perspective (something which I enjoy because I tune in for her story...) I also don't agree that we don't see Angel depend on Buffy. Buffy has to rescue him in WML, Angel is completely reliant on Buffy when he returns from hell, he literally clings to her upon his return from hell, she brings him food and helps to rehabilitate him (and they aren't even a couple then), then he depends on her a great deal in Amends and in Graduation Day (given his respective situations). Similarly, Buffy depends on Angel in the early seasons for information, help in patrol, and earshot to name a few. The fact that they are intermittently in a romantic relationship doesn't diminish their friendship to me.But friendship is an interactive thing... and I don't EVER see Angel depend on Buffy.
Sure they did. We see them patrol together in s2 numerous times before he loses his soul. Buffy makes mention in Passions that when something like this happens her first instinct is to run to Angel because he was her partner. Post Amends, Angel takes on the role of partner in a big way. They get together to try and help Faith, they team up in the charade to expose Faith's alliances, we see them fighting as a team in Choices (both at the beginning taking on vamps and in teaming up to steal the box); then of course we see Angel fighting with her literally in graduation day.Buffy and Angel didn't fight 'side by side', though they did fight on the same side.
Which is all the more reason why those idiot writers should have kept them friends!It pains me to say this, but I think Cordelia is the one who came the closest to being Angel's friend. It is so sad that Buffy could not get to know the man Angel became after Amends.
I am going by a very strict definition for friendship, because otherwise the question doesn't really make sense.
And that's why it would have been so good to see Cangel. The fact that Buffy and Cordy were friends. They would have gone from acquaintances to friends to colleagues to lovers. That is really rare for TV; certainly for WhedonTV.It pains me to say this, but I think Cordelia is the one who came the closest to being Angel's friend.
Not for me. Doing something because its different doesn't mean it works as drama. For me Cordy and Angel never worked as lovers.And that's why it would have been so good to see Cangel. The fact that Buffy and Cordy were friends. They would have gone from acquaintances to friends to colleagues to lovers. That is really rare for TV; certainly for WhedonTV.