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Were Xander and Buffy unfair to Willow in Something Blue?

Myheadsgonenumb

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There are other people at that party - it is not just them. Indeed - as Tara tells us in season 6, she has 'many dear friends'

There's a difference between parties with 'only close friends' and parties where you know only one person. You've really never gone along to a school friend's birthday where it's just you and their new college friends? Who do all know each other and really aren't that interested in this person from their new friend's life before?
There's also a difference between a night out where strangers will be, who you might get talking to - and a night out where you are the only person in a group who doesn't know everyone else and everyone else is friendly. Clearly that is what Buffy is worried will happen. As that is clearly what she states. Even if you're not a misanthrope, that doesn't make people who are awkward in social situations bad people and does not mean that Buffy should enjoy hanging out with total strangers. She isn't looking to hook up with one of Tara's friends.

They are not - in any way - unsupportive of Willow because they aren't jazzed about Tara's birthday party. Just like they weren't unsupportive of Willow in something blue. Sometimes you do stuff for friends that you don't want to do - it's the fact you do it that makes you a friend, the fact that personally you'd rather gouge your own eyeballs out than do it does not make you unsupportive.
 

Faded90

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I think we’re supposed to just assume they had other casual college friends. In The Initiative when they go to a party we see Buffy say ‘look the guys are already here’ and then proceeds to talk and dance with ‘the guys’ - we of course have no idea who any of them are. When Willow/Tara break up in S6 it’s clear Tara isn’t just sitting alone waiting for one of the scoobies to reach out to her. Also regardless of whether there actually is a heavy Wiccan crowd the point is that they don’t know Tara enough to know if there will be a huge party of people. That’s why they wonder if there will be lots of other people there. Watching it there biggest concern still seems to be about what to get her for a present because they don’t know her very well
 

Athene

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I think Tara's party looked really chilled from what we saw- it was in the middle of the Bronze and so there were plenty of strangers there anyway. But Tara definitely had her witch friends there as well- we see them watching Tara unwrap presents.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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There are other people at that party - it is not just them.
No, they are just random people at the Bronze. None of the extras interact or even acknowledge the presence of the Scoobies.
Indeed - as Tara tells us in season 6, she has 'many dear friends'
That's a joke Tara tells after easing the tension after Willow sees her kissing a person Willow has never seen before. It's a new friend. In S4, Willow and Tara don't have any other friends outside the Scoobies. The only Wiccan crowd they know are the awful bake-sale bullies, whom they both hate.

The "heavy Wiccan crowd" Buffy asks Xander about is a figment of her imagination. Xander's only response is that Tara is "pretty wiccy". They think she is weird, so they assume she has some weird lesbian friends.
There's a difference between parties with 'only close friends' and parties where you know only one person. You've really never gone along to a school friend's birthday where it's just you and their new college friends? Who do all know each other and really aren't that interested in this person from their new friend's life before?
Yes, I have and I have usually enjoyed myself.

But that's not what's happening here. The whole squad is going.
But Tara definitely had her witch friends there as well- we see them watching Tara unwrap presents.
Yes, you're right. In one of several scenes of the Scoobies interacting, there are two girls looking over Tara's shoulder. But neither Tara nor the other Scoobies interacts, hangs out or plays pool with them, so Buffy's fear that Tara will bring this imposing "heavy Wiccan crowd" that will make her feel uncomfortable seems pretty unfounded.
 

Athene

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Yes, you're right. In one of several scenes of the Scoobies interacting, there are two girls looking over Tara's shoulder. But neither Tara nor the other Scoobies interacts, hangs out or plays pool with them, so Buffy's fear that Tara will bring this imposing "heavy Wiccan crowd" that will make her feel uncomfortable seems pretty unfounded
Yeah I think the implication is that the scoobies kind of stayed at their own table anyway but Tara must have hung out with all of her guests but yeah by the looks of it it didn't look imposing at all. Buffy could easily just hang out with the 5 people she knows. But I guess we have to allow that they didn't know what the party would be like beforehand.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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Yeah I think the implication is that the scoobies kind of stayed at their own table anyway but Tara must have hung out with all of her guests but yeah by the looks of it it didn't look imposing at all. Buffy could easily just hang out with the 5 people she knows.
We see Tara play pool with the others and talk intensely to Anya, but she never interacts with anyone else, so to me it seems that she didn't invite all that many people.

In S4, Willow and Tara are cooped up in their room, because Willow isn't ready to come out and Tara doesn't have a group of her own. As Tara's brother says in this episode, Tara has never been great at making friends, which isn't surprising, seeing what kind of regime she grew up under.

She may have made a couple of friends since then, but I don't think they constitute a crowd.

I think that if Tara had had a "heavy Wiccan crowd" of accepting like minded people, she wouldn't have been desperate enough to cast the demon-perception spell and her later acceptance by the Scoobies wouldn't have been as important.
But I guess we have to allow that they didn't know what the party would be like beforehand.
Yes, I think it is obvious that she's just guessing, but I think her negativity to the whole thing is a bit confounding.
 

Athene

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We see Tara play pool with the others and talk intensely to Anya, but she never interacts with anyone else, so to me it seems that she didn't invite all that many people.

In S4, Willow and Tara are cooped up in their room, because Willow isn't ready to come out and Tara doesn't have a group of her own. As Tara's brother says in this episode, Tara has never been great at making friends, which isn't surprising, seeing what kind of regime she grew up under.

She may have made a couple of friends since then, but I don't think they constitute a crowd.

I think that if Tara had had a "heavy Wiccan crowd" of accepting like minded people, she wouldn't have been desperate enough to cast the demon-perception spell and her later acceptance by the Scoobies wouldn't have been as important.

Yes, I think it is obvious that she's just guessing, but I think her negativity to the whole thing is a bit confounding.
Yeah I would say that Tara has other friends who are likely witches but not close friends. For example when Willow sees Tara kiss that woman at college in season 6- that's likely one of her witch friends who it looks like she's grown close to.
 

Mr Trick

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Never picked up on that Xander and Buffy exchange from Something Blue. But I agree it is off. My guess is that its partly to do with Tracy Forbes as script writer. Sometimes when you have a writer who doesn't spend a lot of time writing for the show the characters can feeling a bit off compared normal. Forbes only wrote 3 episodes I think.
 

Fuffy Baith

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This is always something that bothered me in season 4. Buffy cries about jerk face Parker, and Willow, Oz and Xander all raise their hand at wanting to punch him in the face (Beginning of Fear,Itself). But Willow loses her first love, he chose to leave her, she's heartbroken and lost without him. So, for Buffy and Xander to be like, oh it's been a few weeks, she needs to get over him, sorry that's not how the heart works.

It reminds me of in Beer Bad, Willow thinks that Buffy had group sex, and was like really empathetic and concerned for Buffy, not judging her. But when Willow reveals she likes Tara in New Moon Rising, Buffy's reaction is a bit different, she comes around in the end. But there is that line in The Yoko Factor (or Primeval, not sure) where Buffy says something like if she was more open to Willow (and Xanders) life choices (she means partners) her head would fall out.

So, it bothers me a bit that Willow is always the comforting, compassionate friend, that will put her own feelings aside to be there for her friends, but in Something Blue, Buffy and Xander can't do that for her. I get that this also happens in real life, people are different and react to things differently, but Willow needed better treatment after Oz left.
 

Faded90

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This is always something that bothered me in season 4. Buffy cries about jerk face Parker, and Willow, Oz and Xander all raise their hand at wanting to punch him in the face (Beginning of Fear,Itself). But Willow loses her first love, he chose to leave her, she's heartbroken and lost without him. So, for Buffy and Xander to be like, oh it's been a few weeks, she needs to get over him, sorry that's not how the heart works.

It reminds me of in Beer Bad, Willow thinks that Buffy had group sex, and was like really empathetic and concerned for Buffy, not judging her. But when Willow reveals she likes Tara in New Moon Rising, Buffy's reaction is a bit different, she comes around in the end. But there is that line in The Yoko Factor (or Primeval, not sure) where Buffy says something like if she was more open to Willow (and Xanders) life choices (she means partners) her head would fall out.

So, it bothers me a bit that Willow is always the comforting, compassionate friend, that will put her own feelings aside to be there for her friends, but in Something Blue, Buffy and Xander can't do that for her. I get that this also happens in real life, people are different and react to things differently, but Willow needed better treatment after Oz left.
But they DO comfort her and we see this throughout this episode. their comments are privately between them. It’s like judging Willow purely on her ‘Buffy needs a big mental tidy’ over Parker

Buffy has absolutely no issue at all with Willow being in a relationship with Tara either, she’s clearly surprised and taken aback but is the good understanding friend within about 30 seconds . I’ve never took Buffy’s ‘open minded’ comment being about their relationships either, in myhead I thought she meant their general life choices. If we’re judging on independent instances why don’t we throw in Dead Man’s Party and Willow’s ‘I know you just killed your boyfriend but I didn’t have anyone to talk to about MY boyfriend!’.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
Yes, their reaction to Buffy in Dead Man's Party is also terrible.

Mr Trick

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I still defend Buffy's reaction to Willow coming out. I think its natural to be taken aback when you have no idea that your best friend is gay. It would be worse if she carried on making a big deal of it after that scene but she doesn't really.
 
Fuffy Baith
Fuffy Baith
True, and it's okay for people to have different reactions, but Willow's is usually Buffy's feelings first, then Willow's feelings.
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