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Were you happy when Willow murdered Warren?

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
Jan 25, 2016
Messages
9,011
Location
UK
I think Willows actions are completely understandable, but I am not a fan of vigilante justice and I think the affect it had on Willow was too high a price.
 
A
Alexisalexis
Sadly when Willow got her revenge it was not enough for her. She began looking for Andrew and Jonathan who were not responsible. I despise them too but Willow was wrong.
S

sweetiepie

Guest
No. I was not happy. Warren did not deserve that. Willow was a murderer.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,707
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
Killing somebody is one thing but slowly and sadistically torturing and then flaying somebody alive is on another level. It's appalling. What happened to Warren is supposed to shock the viewer and make them question their thirst to see Tara avenged.
Personally I wasn't exactly sad for Warren but I did wonder how Willow would ever come back from crossing that line.

Rather easily, apparently.
 

Antho

Scooby
Joined
Nov 30, 2016
Messages
2,392
Age
27
Location
Montauban (France)
Willow who did that and How she did it was extremely terrifying for me. So terrifying that sadness doesn’t touch me. Warren deserved to die of course but not in that way and not by the hand of that person.
 
M

M

Guest
Not gonna lie. It was pretty satisfying. In real life, though, I'd probably vomit over seeing something like this, and I'd feel sorry that such a a gentle soul like Willow got pushed so far. Something like that can't ever really be undone.

However, I only just watched this for the first time a few months ago, so the memory of my emotions watching it are still pretty fresh. At the time, I kept thinking,"when is this jerk going to get his comeuppance?" Then, every time he would elude the law or bounce away unscathed, I found myself shouting at the screen, "someone just get him already!" I think the final blow from Willow got an appreciative cheer. It still does.

Trying to destroy the world, or kill the other two, was too far, but Warren's death, with the very satisfying "bored now" felt like justice, equal and balanced. He got heaped back on him in the last few seconds of his life every bit of the arrogance, apathy, pain, humiliation, and complete disregard he had given other people. If it had stopped there, it would have been much more difficult to question Willow's actions.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,976
Age
40
Yeah, they were definitely sending mixed messages on that one. My guess is, they were hoping her rage in the next episode would truly be inexcusable, whereas, making Warren the worst human being ever, then expecting the audience to be horrified at what Willow did, was a lost cause. I don't have to quote what Gandalf said of Gollum to Frodo regarding pity, but as is, Willow killing Warren doesn't convince me she would go on to kill either Jonathan, or Anya, or Buffy, or Giles, or Dawn, or Gaia, or Xander. After all, in a world without a Wizgamot or a Sorcerer Supreme or a renegade Time Lord, how do you deal with Dark Sorcerers? Execution could the best practice?
 

Ethan Reigns

Scooby
Joined
Oct 14, 2012
Messages
7,521
Location
Canada
Sineya
Warren managed to create a Warrenbot that was so realistic it even fooled Willow when she dragged it off the bus. As Snyder had once said, the police in Sunnydale are deeply stupid and they would have tried and convicted the Warrenbot if they were even interested in pursuing the case and by the time they realized their mistake (if they ever did), the real Warren would have been long gone. I was satisfied that someone finally terminated him because he was beyond the reach of the legal system. I normally don't support vigilante justice but when the legal system fails as it was bound to do, it is the only recourse. I was expecting the writers to somehow blunt her attack so she would not appear to be a cold-blooded murderer the way they did with Fred's attack on Professor Seidel in Ats but they didn't wimp out this time. And of course I cheered her on - that bloody psycho deserved what he got.

I think Willow herself was sufficiently different from Dark Willow that she could recover in somewhat the same sense that Angel and Angelus were separate entities and therefore they did not have the same sensibilities. But her attempt to destroy Andrew and Johnathan followed by the entire world had to be stopped and it was - by Xander who comes along in time to suffer the pain delivered by Willow and bring her back to her normal self.
 

AstridDante

Potential
Joined
May 4, 2020
Messages
355
Age
42
Yes he was an awful person and yes he deserved punishment but no I wasn’t happy that Willow flayed him. I could understand it in her grief and anger but it was more than that she was subsumed in dark emotions and magic and I just didn’t want to see her become a murderer no matter how much Warren may have deserved it
 

Ghost Boy

Scooby
Joined
Feb 22, 2018
Messages
654
Yes, I was glad she killed him. Some people need to be put down. No point trying to rehabilitate people like that.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,976
Age
40
Re: Dark Willow; To be sure, she was under the influence of Dark Magic. But I think it was more evil being the abscense of good, the emptiness of Willow. Or, Darth Willow also worked. Or Nazgul Willow. Corrupted Willow, or empty Willow.
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,707
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
The same person who flayed Warren is the same person who tried to do every horrible thing up to draining Giles of all his magic, then she got worse. You condone one action you condone them all.
 

Give Us A Kiss

Fuffy Apologist
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
2,753
Sineya
The same person who flayed Warren is the same person who tried to do every horrible thing up to draining Giles of all his magic, then she got worse. You condone one action you condone them all.
I was very happy to see Warren murdered, but I would have preferred if it wasn't by that person.
I feel like a lot of people overlook this person's flaws and actions and just look at "wow, what a transformation" or "that person and thier SO are perfect for each other and that's a healthy relationship", that person may look 'cute' but they are an awful human being...
 

AlphaFoxtrot

Scooby
Joined
Sep 11, 2017
Messages
1,976
Age
40
Here's a follow up question. Did she intend to kill him? Like, when she started this? She obviously didn't torture and interrogate the robot duplicate, so it seems like a yes. But consider, Willow doesn't really want vengeance, she really wants the pain to go away. She's trying to kill Warren, hoping Warren will kill her. She tries to kill Andrew and Jonathan hoping they'll summon something to kill her. She fights Buffy, Anya and Giles hoping that one them will break her neck. She offers to uncreate Dawn. When she defeats Giles and has her final moment of clarity, her response is to destroy everything. If I had to speculate, she didn't kill him in the name of justice, or vengeance. She did so because torturing him didn't make her feel better. The whole thing with Dark Willow is, this wasn't a master plan, or a moral choice, this was the self-destruction of Willow Rosenberg. This is just a drug addict who got two thousand dollars and was dead of an overdose the next morning. We really can't treat this like Zod or Saruman or the train choice. This is despair.
 
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