• Thank you for visiting Buffy-Boards. You obviously have exceptional taste. We just want you to know that:

    1. You really should register so you can chat with us!

    2. Fourteen thousand people can't be wrong.

    3. Buffy-Boards loves you.

    4. See 1 through 3.

    Come on, register already!

Were you happy when Willow murdered Warren?

Punkie

Townie
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
43
Warren being flayed was kind of awesome. It really was Watercooler Vengeance!

Willow being evil was not fun for me. A little of it was fun/interesting, but mostly I was eye rolling my way through Willow’s Addiction and Evil Escapades. I HATE the expression “jump the shark” and the way people misuse it, but it really was very jump-the-sharky.
 

Wezza Wozza

Potential
Joined
May 31, 2021
Messages
107
Location
The Motherland
The same person who flayed Warren is the same person who tried to do every horrible thing up to draining Giles of all his magic, then she got worse. You condone one action you condone them all.
Willow in a normal mindset would not do this. Think of Dark Willow as being like Anakin Skywalker, he started to get angry and then he was consumed by the dark side and this evil force takes over your mind and only truly powerful things, such as Xander pleading his life to Willow and Luke pleading his life to Vader, can take you away from the grasp of the evil force.
 
S

sweetiepie

Guest
If you read the comics you will be happy to know this is not exactly the case.

I read the comics and they are not canon for me. They are BS. Willow is my favorite in the buffyverse and watching her turning into a murderer was scary. Warren needed to face punishment but flaying him alive was horrific. I don't care he got killed. He served his purpose but the manner Willow finished him horrified me. The dude could have been killed with his skin. In Two to Go I was holding my breath about Andrew. Andrew is my little puppy and if Willow had killed him. I would have cried for a whole day.
 

Wezza Wozza

Potential
Joined
May 31, 2021
Messages
107
Location
The Motherland
I read the comics and they are not canon for me. They are BS. Willow is my favorite in the buffyverse and watching her turning into a murderer was scary. Warren needed to face punishment but flaying him alive was horrific. I don't care he got killed. He served his purpose but the manner Willow finished him horrified me. The dude could have been killed with his skin. In Two to Go I was holding my breath about Andrew. Andrew is my little puppy and if Willow had killed him. I would have cried for a whole day.
Are there any comics you consider canon?
 

thetopher

Member of the Church Of Faith
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Messages
10,731
Location
The Moot, England
Sineya
Willow in a normal mindset would not do this.

Willow willingly and knowingly absorbed dark magicks into herself with the express purpose of killing somebody. So she is absolutely culpable for everything she tried to do in her wicca-rampage.
After all she's done plenty of questionable things with magic in previous seasons; just less maliciously reckless in their application; she's carelessly bent reality to her will, summoned trolls and wiped memories without ever being held to account, I'm sure that she thought she could get away with a few homicides...it's just that her friends kept peskily getting in the way and so became targets as well.
Remember when she was trying to smash a truck into a car that Xander and Buffy were in? Yeah, she knew and didn't care; Dark Willow's just gotta flay.

Think of Dark Willow as being like Anakin Skywalker

...Who made incredibly bad choices and turned to the Dark Side. Darth Vader is a villain who has a tragic backstory, doesn't excuse his villainy.

To be fair to Willow she doesn't exactly excuse her own villainy after the fact, its just that everyone else does it for her.
 

Wezza Wozza

Potential
Joined
May 31, 2021
Messages
107
Location
The Motherland
Willow willingly and knowingly absorbed dark magicks into herself with the express purpose of killing somebody. So she is absolutely culpable for everything she tried to do in her wicca-rampage.
After all she's done plenty of questionable things with magic in previous seasons; just less maliciously reckless in their application; she's carelessly bent reality to her will, summoned trolls and wiped memories without ever being held to account, I'm sure that she thought she could get away with a few homicides...it's just that her friends kept peskily getting in the way and so became targets as well.
Remember when she was trying to smash a truck into a car that Xander and Buffy were in? Yeah, she knew and didn't care; Dark Willow's just gotta flay.



...Who made incredibly bad choices and turned to the Dark Side. Darth Vader is a villain who has a tragic backstory, doesn't excuse his villainy.

To be fair to Willow she doesn't exactly excuse her own villainy after the fact, its just that everyone else does it for her.
Thats what I love about Willow and Faith in particular compared to someone like Buffy, they acknowledge they have made some serious bad decisions such as murder but try and make up for them even though they are not expecting forgiveness.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
Age
31

Watching that clip makes it look as if Warren realised he was probably going to die. Just the way he said "no" after Willow said "thought you wanted to talk?" makes it seem like he in the process of accepting his inevitable death. He almost gets a "hope spot" when the scoobies show up but then Willow quickly dispatches him.
 

Mott1

Townie
Joined
Aug 8, 2021
Messages
21
Age
47
I love Buffy and defend the later seasons, particularly 6 and 7, from detractors. But the conclusion to s6 is a problem for me, even if none of us could rewrite it and please everybody.

Hannigan pulled off so much that was required of her but I think the need to have a Buffy/Dark Willow beat-up diminished a great deal. The trashing of the Magic Shop was spectacular but felt too melodramatic and self-destructive even for that particular season - no wonder Anya was still so peeved with her. I didn't really get the sudden envy Willow seemed to have for Buffy's status (she's been forced back to Earth against her wishes, has an annoying little sister, a bad relationship and a horrible job!), and I feel Warren would have been a better main villain. If he had betrayed his friends - which he technically did - and clearly didn't care it would have cemented our affection for Willow, flawed as she had shown herself to be, if she felt bad enough about doing the same to NOT do it, even at her lowest ebb. She basically learnt nothing from the problems she went through earlier in the season, for all the huge duress she was under.

Instead she just turned into a cliche of the dreaded 'psycho lesbian loses girlfriend and goes postal' trope, whilst the police look even more incompetent than ever. The death of Tara is often cited as a reason why programs shouldn't 'kill their gays', though I agreed with the showrunners that if you're not feeling something because of a character's death then there's not much point killing them off.

Sorry, I digress. But I just felt that whilst the scene was effective in showing the depths she'd sunk to, like the Spike trying to rape Buffy scene showed his obsession and capacity for ill even as the Scoobies' ally, unlike the Spike scene it didn't lead to anything positive in terms of character arc, it just showed Willow veering from happy reformed magic junkie to unremorseful psychopath: it'd be like Marilyn in Home And Away suddenly torching Summer Bay then being left with nowhere to go. The killing of Warren and the damage she does in s6 led to further trouble with her character in s7 when she became far too passive and withdrawn, so I think ultimately it was one of the show's relatively few missteps.
 

garfan

Townie
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
50
Age
42
hell yes. The idea that this shouldn't have been their call was nuts to me. Whedon had never done anything to suggest any civil authority in the Buffyverse was competent to deal with someone even slightly connected to the supernatural
Sorry, I digress. But I just felt that whilst the scene was effective in showing the depths she'd sunk to, like the Spike trying to rape Buffy scene showed his obsession and capacity for ill even as the Scoobies' ally, unlike the Spike scene it didn't lead to anything positive in terms of character arc, it just showed Willow veering from happy reformed magic junkie to unremorseful psychopath: it'd be like Marilyn in Home And Away suddenly torching Summer Bay then being left with nowhere to go. The killing of Warren and the damage she does in s6 led to further trouble with her character in s7 when she became far too passive and withdrawn, so I think ultimately it was one of the show's relatively few missteps.

plus it pigeonholed her character
 

thrasherpix

Scooby
Joined
Mar 13, 2016
Messages
3,793
Age
38
If Warren did go to prison, I'd see him being gotten out by Wolfram & Hart, with funding. And discovering, exploiting, thwarting the Slayer power would be a job he could probably do quite well, and with funding have a different sort of robo-demons to send at her. No one had studied her more, and he'd have more resources than ever before.

They could get really dark with that (and come about to "Awakening all Slayers" using his techno-magical research which would feel better than her doing so because of the gift-wrapped scythe--oh wait, Buffy got it just before Caleb could put a bow on it as he surely would've in continuing with his stupidity so intense that even the First Evil questioned his intelligence), and it would fit in with Joss's hatred of everyone plus his belief that power inherently corrupts (probably a concept born that too many with authority over his projects interfered with his vision or shut him down) until it's as demonic as vampires.
 
burrunjor
burrunjor
LOL sorry I just noticed this. My post below is basically exactly this. Great minds think alike eh?

burrunjor

Scooby
Joined
Nov 13, 2018
Messages
529
Age
30
Yes and no.

On the one hand I think he got what he deserved, and he was also lets not forget a threat that needed taken care of. Given his intellect, he could have easily escaped justice and with his dangerous knowledge of technology and magic been a potential threat all on his own or ended up in the service of something worse. Wolfram and Hart could have easily sought Warren out, as could the First. Imagine if it had manipulated him instead of Andrew? Think of what he could have done with Robots that it could have infiltrated the Slayer hideout with, or team Angel etc.

Willow did the world a favour in killing Warren.

However obviously it did push Willow over into the darkside and allow the magics to take her over, it drove her mad and the way she killed him was in all fairness probably the most horrifying way to die LOL. You can't help but look away whenever you see it, no matter how badly he had it coming.

I've always said though that Warren's death is like Rhodes from Day of the Dead in that in both cases they get the most horrific, visceral, gruesome death, you look away, but at the same time they are both so horrible, you'd probably have been a bit upset if it wasn't that gruesome LOL
 

Willow fan

Townie
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
56
Age
15
No, beaucous what ever bad thing you do you don't deserve to die ore be kilde, but I can under stand why Willow whose made at Warren.
 

DeepBlueJoy

Lion Faced Kitteh
Joined
May 5, 2014
Messages
979
Location
East of Trouble
Warren deserved to die bad. Not sure Willow deserved the headspace she earned from doing it, but her own choices led her there. Was i happy he died? Yes.

I would even have liked it if Willow (or Xander) had killed him at the scene (in hot blood/almost self-defense while he was still a threat). Hunting him down and skinning him took her to an irrevocable place. If she lives to be 100, it will always be with her - and as an act taken with what follows almost dwarfs his action. He was the bad guy, but *she* tried to end the world. People kill themselves over far less.

In doing what she did, Willow became a monster and believed herslf entitled to act as a god. That is simply not something i want in a heroine. Warren needed to die, however, as i dont think the justice system could have stopped him. Giles killing Glory was like this - necessary, not retribution. What Willow did was not a magical cop stopping a perpetrator, she was a raging madwoman who became completely unhinged and a murderer. Her act was NOT justice.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom