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What exactly are the rules of invite?

MissChristina

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This question was probably asked before, but I can’t seem to find the answer on these boards: In the episode “Five by Five” (S01E18), Faith had taken Wesley hostage and was holed up in an apartment. Angel finds them, smashes the door and busts in. How did Angel get inside without an invite??Supposedly, the apartment owner was hospitalized after he was attacked by Faith. Is that enough for Angel to enter? Or did I somehow miss the detail that Angel had already been invited to this apartment before?
 

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I believe (though I may be wrong) that they imply that Angel went by the hospital before heading to the apartment to get the owner to invite him in.
 
MissChristina
MissChristina
Hmm, ok. Wish they made that more apparent, but I can head-cannon that!

nightshade

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I might be getting things confused but was it not Cordelia's apartment?
 

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No, with Cordelia it was that she said 'you're totally welcome' to Angel when discussing finding an apartment and that was enough for him to walk right through the door when she moved in.
 

nightshade

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No, with Cordelia it was that she said 'you're totally welcome' to Angel when discussing finding an apartment and that was enough for him to walk right through the door when she moved in.
I meant was it not Cordelia's apartment that Faith was in?
 
MissChristina
MissChristina
Faith was in Cordelia’s apartment. Knocked Cordy unconscious. Then beat up Wesley and took him hostage, left Cordy’s apartment. Angel shows up at Cordy’s apartment, and there’s no Wes. Faith took him to another apartment.

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I meant was it not Cordelia's apartment that Faith was in?
Not in the scene where her and Angel fought and she tortured Wesley, which is what the OP question was about. Since Angel entered, seemingly, without an invite :)
 
nightshade
nightshade
Ah, I remembered Faith being at Cordelia's apartment, wasn't sure if she left it or not

MissChristina

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Yeah, I meant the scene where Faith had Wesley tied up as a hostage, and she was going through the steps of torture: pain, sharp, cold, hot, loud. Then Angel bursts through the door. I assumed the apartment belonged to one of Faith’s other victims. She’d arrived in LA, and was beating people up, stealing wallets and keys. In the scene right before Faith torturing Wesley, Cordelia said one of Faith’s attack victims was still hospitalized. Then the next scene is Faith torturing Wesley. Then Angel bursts in. Does that mean hospitalized apartment owner = permission to enter?
 

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I can't find the source right now, which makes me doubt my own memory, but I feel like there was a cut scene of Angel in the hospital getting the invite? Totally not sure, though.
 
MissChristina
MissChristina
I just watched the episode last night, and there wasn’t a scene that you described. But if it edited out, that was kinda dumb of them.

DeadlyDuo

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Maybe the owner died which meant that Angel would no longer need an invite?
 
MissChristina
MissChristina
I don’t think so. Cordy specifically said the guy was hospitalized, and 2 scenes later, Angel is busting through the door.

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Maybe the owner died which meant that Angel would no longer need an invite?
I just highly doubt that they would gloss over Faith killing another human, especially considering the events of the following episode with Angel and Faith in his apartment, discussing how she's gonna make up for her past mistakes.
 
MissChristina
MissChristina
Very much agree with this!

DeadlyDuo

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I just highly doubt that they would gloss over Faith killing another human, especially considering the events of the following episode with Angel and Faith in his apartment, discussing how she's gonna make up for her past mistakes.
Maybe the owner died in hospital therefore it wouldn't necessarily count as a Faith "kill" because it wasn't directly by her hand?
 

GaviGrimm

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I do recall Angel being able to go into homes where the home owners had died.
 

MissChristina

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I do recall Angel being able to go into homes where the home owners had died.
Yes, this is true on Buffy or Angel, if the owners had died, or if they abandoned their homes, like in the episode “Touched” (S07E29) on Buffy when Spike entered a neighbor’s house after Buffy told the owner to leave town. But in this episode, the homeowner was hospitalized, according to Cordy just 2 scenes before Angel broke down the door. Is hospitalization enough for vampires to enter? Seems kind of a flimsy loophole? Or is this a big ‘ol whoopsie that Joss Whedon didn’t notice?
 

thrasherpix

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While I can't recall the exact episode, one Angel ep had Wesley searching an apartment which Angel couldn't enter, then all of a sudden he could, which meant the owner, who was in the hospital, died.
 

MissChristina

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While I can't recall the exact episode, one Angel ep had Wesley searching an apartment which Angel couldn't enter, then all of a sudden he could, which meant the owner, who was in the hospital, died.
Right, but in this episode, if the victim died in the hospital, the ramifications would be huge for Faith because she caused the death of another human, and it would have been addressed in the episode.

At this point, it’s either a big ‘ol whoops, or really bad writing.
 

GaviGrimm

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Maybe since he was heavily hospitalized he was in a coma. Maybe that is enough.
 

WillowFromBuffy

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It is possible that the apartment no longer counts as belonging to the victim, as Faith has taken possession of it. Legal ownership doesn't matter. You have to live in a place for it to be safe.

But if the guy died... I don't think that would have had that many ramifications. Faith's crimes were already so numerous at that point. And it is not like she ended up serving out her life sentence anyway.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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The Invite Rules are complicated, and never explained. My theory would be, the Powers gave an assist, as they do. My head Canon answer, is that the Mayor "desecrated" Faith at some point, that removed the natural defenses humanity has against the Dark Forces of the Night, and that broke the default hearth and home blessing.
 

Myheadsgonenumb

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In the scene before he arrives at the apartment, him and Cordy are mapping out Faith's attacks - they work out that she is staying in the first victim's apartment, who is still hospitalised and Angel says he will swing by the hospital and 'see if I can get myself an invite.'

Cordy 'completely invites him over'

Rebecca 'Raven' Lowell says he should come over and she will give him a private screening of the episode she didn't win an emmy for and he replies 'thanks for the invitation' so when he later smashes through her window and everybody is all '...wut? invite rule...' Joss can point out that you just weren't paying enough attention.

The scene @thrasherpix is talking about is 'untouched' from season 2. Gunn is searching the apartment and Angel is casually leaning on the barrier, when the owner dies in hospital and he falls through and crashes to the floor.

5 seasons of rewrites mean that I have the most indepth knowledge of the most inane bits of dialogue :D but at least it means I can rest easy knowing the invite rules are actually consistent throughout (barring Epiphany - where they make a big deal about it)
 
thrasherpix
thrasherpix
Yes, that's the ep I was thinking of!
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