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Question What if Buffy tried to R*pe Spike?

Discussion in 'Season 6' started by smgismyqueenjpg, Jun 28, 2017.

  1. smgismyqueenjpg

    smgismyqueenjpg BuffyPhile

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    Black Thorn
    This thread touches on Men's rights & R*pe is makes you uncomfy then do reply to this thread.
     
  2. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    That would be just as disturbing to me as Spike attempting to rape Buffy. It depends on how the scene plays out though, if it's done how the scene in 'Seeing red' was done with struggling, crying, horrible language (like Spike talking about how she felt it when he was inside of her) then yeah I would be equally upset.
     
    smgismyqueenjpg: Common Sense.
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  3. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    It makes no difference if a man is trying to force a woman or a woman is trying to force a man. If someone is exercising their right to say no then that's that surely.
     
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  4. Priceless

    Priceless I didn't forget y'know

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    Rape, by its very definition is wrong, no matter if it's female on male, male on female, or any other combination
     
  5. smgismyqueenjpg

    smgismyqueenjpg BuffyPhile

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    Black Thorn
    I know.
     
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  6. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    No means no. Respect has no gender. It's a human being's right to choose whether they engage in sexual activity with another human being. So being a man and giving consent has exactly the same weight as being a woman and giving consent.
     
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  7. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    What about a vampire's right? :D
     
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  8. Athena

    Athena Belinda Staff Member

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    Black Thorn
    Well, he was human once upon a time..... ;)
     
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  9. Stoney

    Stoney Spiked!

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    Even if you took the stance that vampiric boundaries are different and force was commonplace and accepted in vampiric relationships, if the vampire was saying no it would still reflect badly on a human partner choosing to step out of their own social/moral parameters and rape them regardless because they think they might not mean it. :s

    (EDIT: I hasten to add, I still think it would also be wrong for a vampiric partner to disregard being told no too, but I'm separating the social acceptance as possibly being something that doesn't fit our our understanding/beliefs obviously.)
     
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  10. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    I would be completely disgusted with Buffy. And assuming the AR would be similar in nature, this would ruin the show for me. It would go against everything that Buffy is about. And I would be even more disgusted if they tried to say that it's okay because Buffy is a female.

    On a side note, it would be good if a show did try to talk about the issue of female on male rape, I don't think it's something that has ever really been done on any show.
     
  11. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Female on male rape is not given the same focus in media as male on female so if the show had gone that route, it would be another ground breaking thing it did. However Spike and Buffy would not be the best characters to use to explore that issue for two reasons:

    1. Buffy is meant to be a hero and a role model. To have her attempt to commit rape would be signing the show's death warrant. SMG would probably also refuse to do it because it is so against the character's morals. (Sometime actors tend to look out for their characters more than the writers do which is why its important that actors get a say in their characters storylines). It would also piss off the audience big time.

    2. Spike wouldn't say no to Buffy. If he was (in the same vein as Buffy was saying no during the AR), then something awful must've happened before the hypothetical AR which means Buffy would've already been too far gone. The AR would be the final nail in the coffin of Buffy's character.

    I think if they were going to explore the issue of female on male rape, then Xander would be the character most likely used. I think they skirted round the issue with Faith and Xander but they chickened out of actually exploring it, probably because it would've made Faith irredeemable. In television, a character can murder and still be accepted by the audience, but the moment a character rapes, they've crossed the moral event horizon (which is why the AR made no sense because the writers brought Spike so close to the moral event horizon yet wanted the audience to sympathise with him next season).

    Tell a lie, they actually did have female on male rape with Faith and Riley. Again though, they didn't actually explore the issue and sort of twisted their way around it because it was Buffy's body and she was Riley's girlfriend, etc even though both Riley and Buffy were victims of rape.

    The show dropped the ball on dealing with the ramifications on that one.
     
  12. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    Psycho-stalker women can be scary as well. Those treating it as a joke are often rooted in the inherent disrespect for women that can't see them as a viable threat (sometimes combined with the belief that no man would say no under any circumstances, though there are a distressing number of guys--and women who agree this is an excuse for men--who think "she came onto me" excuses any unethical action on his part, say if that means he cheats or she's underage, or if she's willing at first but then it goes well beyond what she was expecting or comfortable with into something brutal and traumatic), which shows even in some media where an exception would have to be made (like in some movie of a superhero woman...my google search showed nothing, but I recall one scene of where she threw a shark into the window of the guy who turned her away which I think most people who have seen it would recognize).
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2017 ---
    I always felt awkward for Xander given how Faith callously used him for sex, and then later how Xander actually thought there was a connection between them because of it.
     
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  13. WillowFromBuffy

    WillowFromBuffy "My bowling shoe fetish is not the issue here."

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    In Gone Buffy forcibly strips Spike and rubs his member without identifying herself. When Spike decides he isn't having fun, Buffy ignores him. We don't actually get to see how Spike 'throws' Buffy out. Is it literal or figuratively? Did Buff comply with his request to let him be?

    When Spike tries to stop Buffy from handing herself over to the police for murder, Buffy beats him to a pulp and gives him cross-episode bruises in his face.

    The show sometimes has a very nonchalant attitude to violence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
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  14. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    I know the one you mean! I think it's called My Super ex girlfriend starring Uma Thurman, Luke Wilson, Eddie Izzard and Anna Faris.
     
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  15. Athene

    Athene Scooby

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    You've got a point. If Spike had turned invisible and starting sexually touching Buffy everyone would have screamed out rape. But really things that are mystical (like going invisible and touching somebody) are issues that I don't really like to apply words like rape too because we don't actually know what they'd be considered in the real world so why apply real world terms to them? I won't repeat my argument here but I have a similar stance to the Faith and Riley issue too.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2017 ---
    I would have found it callous if Faith had made it seem like there would be more to their relationship than just a one night stand but she didn't, she was honest.
    Their conversation in 'The Zeppo' when something along the lines of Faith saying "I'm horny. You up for sex?" And Xander just being like "Okay sure". There was no promise of a connection or anything other than a one night stand.
     
  16. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    Firstly Spike was a demon a sort of animal he was also dead not sure if it is illegal rape a dead animal ? No means No no matter whether male or female, Woman's raping a male is a weird thing because how does a female rape a male ? A male forces his erect penis into a woman , If the male is not erect what can a woman do ? A erect penis is caused by the Male feelings, a male doe's not walk around erect, he needs stimulation mental or physical, surely the only way a women could have intercourse with a male he did not find attractive is to tie him up and physically stimulate him.Take Xander he is young male when he went to Faith a second time over the killing of the assistant Mayor to talk.... do you think a part of him was not hoping for a repeat and end up with Faith in bed ? of course he was.Buffy fighting with Spike in smashed , Spike had simulated this fight with both the Buffy Bot and Harmony, fighting then Shaxxing the Slayer that was his fantasy. Buffy must have felt that the fight was turning Spike on making him hard, for her to get the idea to jump him, the fighting sexually stimulated both Buffy and Spike ( S& M ), perhaps hitting women always turned Spike on he seemed to do it a lot. Buffy said no to Spike a lot in Six and No has got to mean No no matter what the gender
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2017 ---
    Spike did not need to go invisible he was touching up Buffy all the time despite her saying no, as for the Riley / Faith issue the one who was raped was Buffy , Buffy was very fortunate Faith did not have un protective sex with multiple partners with Buffy body...I am sure she would have if she thought Buffy was getting it back so soon
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 28, 2017 ---
    Funny old rape when Xander walks in Spike is thrusting into Buffy ? ..... Spike through Buffy out after sex because he said you are only here because your not here , he knew she was acting out of character because she was invincible not that she wanted to be with him, if anything he raped Buffy, knowing under normal circumstances she would not be there
    When Buffy is beating Spike she is really beating herself the words she is saying she is saying about herself , she doesn't understand it is the depression allowing Spike to abuse her, why she keeps on going back, her words to Tara are so telling, after Tara confirmed that Spike had not been correct she had not come back wrong
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
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  17. DeadlyDuo

    DeadlyDuo Scooby

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    Despite disagreeing that Spike was "a sort of animal", bestiality is illegal. Whether the animal is dead or not is irrelevant. That's like saying is it rape if you have sex with a corpse. Yes it is. Necrophilia is also illegal.

    You've kind of just answered your own question. However, men can also have involuntary erections based on visual stimuli as well as physical. The idea that a male can't be raped because he would have to have "feelings" in order to be erect is the same line of thinking that leads to a lot of male rapes going unreported. You are essentially blaming the victim for having an erection, and therefore "must want it", because if he didn't have those "feelings" then he wouldn't be erect and therefore couldn't be raped. The woman could drug the bloke with Viagra to give him an erection. Also rape doesn't have to involve an erect penis. Shoving any object including fingers inside of someone against their will counts as rape.

    So because Xander had sex with Faith once, that must automatically mean he wants to sleep with her again? That's like saying a bloke can't be raped by an ex-girlfriend because he's slept with her before and therefore "a part of him wants to do it again". Again you are shifting the blame onto the victim.

    Spike probably did find that fight arousing. Slaying is also supposed to make slayers "hungry and horny". Nobody is talking about that specific fight. It's a general "what if Buffy had raped Spike instead of the other way round" discussion.

    Riley was also raped. Faith tricked Riley into having sex with her by making him believe he was having sex with Buffy. Riley would never have consented to having sex with Faith. Also you make it sound like Buffy should be grateful that Faith didn't get chance to sleep around because she didn't have the time.
     
    Blaze: Exactly!
  18. Blaze

    Blaze Let it Burn

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    Black Thorn
    That's a big misconception that males only get erect if they want to have sex. As a matter of fact, it is possible for both males and female to reach orgasm, or become aroused during rape. It's actually a huge reason for victims blaming themselves, because if they got turn on, then surely they "wanted it", at least that's what everyone tells them. However sometimes getting turned on simply a bodily reaction, and it doesn't equate consent.
     
  19. Dora

    Dora Potential

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    So Spike is a demon what is that if he is not human he has to be something .... and Buffy never raped him so not illegal

    Being a man I have first hand knowledge of how a man feels young and old of course men get aroused by visual stimuli other wise strippers would be out of business but you got to be attracted to that person example you do not get a reaction to your mum but you might to your sister friend
    We are not talking about Male on Male rapes ( and it has happened to me ) we were talking about Buffy and Spike or Women raping men, A woman can get raped by a man she finds repulsive but a man cannot have sex with a woman that he finds repulsive with out physical stimulate or drugs it doe's not happen most of us are not wired that way
    Of course rape does not mean by penis it can be anything in any orifice but why would a women need to rape a man if not penis rape ?
    Xander is seventeen he said even linoleum makes him horny , what do you think young men think off most of the time his first time with Faith is over so fast do you really believe if Faith had offered it again he would have said no i have only come for a chat ?
    What if Buffy had raped Spike instead of the other way round discussion my whole point is how ? if Spike did not want it how ?
    Theoretically you could say that Riley was raped into sleeping with his girlfriends body while in control of Faith but the physical rape was of Buffy's Body , maybe I did not put it clearly it could have been much worse for Buffy if Faith had realised Buffy/ faith would return to their own bodies so soon
     
  20. thrasherpix

    thrasherpix Scooby

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    Rape can be done for sheer sadistic purposes as well, and with foreign objects (which women can do to men). The vast majority of sexual abuse by females I've heard of (not including statutory rape by teachers) actually sounds more like sadism than perversion. That is, the point isn't self-gratification, but about the infliction of pain. (Some male rapists are this way as well.)

    It's also worth noting that it's not unknown for women to arrange for a man to rape, either a woman or another man.