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What is Illyria's true gender?

Kristine

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I was under the assumption that Illyria was male or genderless. (s/he says that s/he was a "God-king" several times). Is there any proof that the original Illyria was female?
 

The Bronze

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I'm pretty sure Illyria is unique and immortal. I'd suggest that any species that has only ever had one member couldn't establish a gender.
 

Spanish Flame

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I have no idea if there's any proof but I have always thought Illyria is HE.:rolleyes:
 

white avenger

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I would suggest that Illyria s referred to as a "God KING" for the same reason that Jehovah is always referred to as "he." The gender was arbitrarily decided on by a male dominant society who didn't want to serve an "it."

As for Illyria specifically, in my opinion, I think that the same thing holds true to it as holds true to the demon that reanimates a corpse, creating a vampire. The gender is determined by the host body. Therefore, as long as Illyria inhabits Fred's body, she is female. If Illyira were to move on to another body, male this time, then he will be male.
 
MarieVampSlayer
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Interesting theory about the vampire demons.

Guy

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I always thought that Illyria was an "it", not a "he" or "she".

(Which is why I really disliked that IDW comic that had Illyria trying to "mate" with Connor, because she was supposedly "in heat". Although it was at least pretty funny...)

When Illyria is in Fred's body, does it become a "She"? I don't know. It's all kinds of confusing... Is Echo still a woman when she's imprinted by a man's personality, in 'Dollhouse'?
 

white avenger

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Which is why I really disliked that IDW comic that had Illyria trying to "mate" with Connor, because she was supposedly "in heat". Although it was at least pretty funny...
Well, if you consider that Illyria would take on the sexual characteristics of its host body, it might seem logical to assume that it was simply reacting to Fred's human physiology.
 

Guy

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Well, if you consider that Illyria would take on the sexual characteristics of its host body, it might seem logical to assume that it was simply reacting to Fred's human physiology.
I don't know, it's been a while since I've read that issue, but I remember that it implied pretty heavily that the whole thing was an Illyria thing, not a Fred thing. It seemed like it was part of a thing that Illyria would go through even back in its old body.

Not that it really matters, of course, since it was a non-canonical comic.
 

GwenRaiden

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Yuh, I also say Illyria transcends gender. Amy Acker plays her (uh.. it?) so well, even in the fragile, petite body of Fred, Illyria is so present and powerful that I don't think about gender when she is talking. I guess Illyria's scenes with Wesley near the end of the series made me think of her as more feminine, but really it was just more Fred-like. More human.
 

wickedwillow

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I've never really thought of Illyria's gender, I guess I thought female as she's in Fred, but I suspect she'd be more of an it. Is Glory female or is that just a form she takes in this dimension?
 

AndrewCrossett

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My thinking was that Illyria was genderless to start, but came to identify more as female the longer she spent in Fred's body.

The season 11 Angel comics, which are officially canon, strongly indicate that she identified as female even in her primordial form, though. Not an approach I agree with.
 

Ethan Reigns

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The Social Justice Warriors would have you believe there are a large number of genders. Illyria may be in the "other" category. Of course, nothing the social justice warriors do is in any way correct, so I assume Illyria is female.
 

Blaze

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Illyria was neither male or female.

The Social Justice Warriors would have you believe there are a large number of genders. Illyria may be in the "other" category. Of course, nothing the social justice warriors do is in any way correct, so I assume Illyria is female.
Except that you know, there's actually more than two genders biologically, and gender as we know it is a social construct. But I guess biology is just as wrong as so called social justice warriors.
 

Athena

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I always figured Illyria was genderless, it was just whatever host body they acquired which made them look a certain gender. So we only refer to Illyria as the pronoun 'she', because they've taken residence in Fred's body.
 

AndrewCrossett

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The Social Justice Warriors would have you believe there are a large number of genders. Illyria may be in the "other" category. Of course, nothing the social justice warriors do is in any way correct, so I assume Illyria is female.
How nice of you to take a perfectly friendly discussion and somehow turn it into a political screed. Thank you so much.
 
Ethan Reigns
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You're welcome.

AlphaFoxtrot

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Regarding sex, Old Ones seem to be either male or female, if Lovecraft’s Deep Ones are any indication. Father Dagon, Mother Hydra, mate with humans. I don’t really understand Demon biology, if they are Fallen Angels or some kind of extradimensional alien things, but they certainly reproduce biologically, and can mate with humans, which suggests a binary sex. Or, they could be dual sexed and can reconfigure themselves as they see fit. How they identify socially as a gender is something to ask a Shogoth the next time one shows up in your dreams.
 

Mrs Gordo

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What a cool thread. I guess it's all moot now that Illyria is no longer a "God-king" and is now a "goddess"... Illyria feels very gendered in s11 and Fred refers to Illyria as "she" it appears (whether this is retconning or not) you can put Illyria in the female column of things now. Which is unfortunate at least from the perspective of - I thought it was interesting to have some thing in the verse that defied gender/sex as we humans define it.
 

thetopher

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Wesley says something about Illyria being a god-king or somesuch.

But whatever Illyria identifies as, that's what she is.
 
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