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What was the original plan for Maggie Walsh?

Joshua

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Is it true that Maggie Walsh was the original planned season 4 Big Bad? But because of Lindsay Crouse having filming conflictions with her movie schedules they had to kill her off and write Adam in?

What was the original plan for Maggie had Crouse's schedule not gotten in the way of the filming of season 4?
 

Robb Stark

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I'm not sure, but for the way her arc progresses and then suddenly stops, it seems to me like there must have been more to the backstage story. Re-writes and character alterations happen all the time in T.V., but her direction shifts so radically so fast that it's always struck me as odd.

I don't know if there was a problem with the actress. I mean, she does one or two guest shot episodes a bit later on in S4. I've heard similar rumors about her movie career getting in the way, and it seems logical.
 

HisMrs

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I don't know but I don't think Maggie Walsh would have been scary enough as the Big Bad on her own.
 

Joshua

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Wasn't Lindsay Course playing judges in the Law & Order franchise was that part of the reason why she got killed off in Buffy?
 

YummySushiPJs

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I read something about this in the official Buffy Magazine years ago, don't remember what it said other than Maggie was going to play a much bigger part in Season 4 originally. Not much help sorry.
 

OutForAWalk

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Wow, I had no idea Walsh was originally intended to be the Big Bad. I think the way they went made it much scarier, though. Adam is a complete monster with absolutely no human emotions -- it made him a very formidable foe! I was really creeped out when he reanimated the corpses of Walsh and the other doctor. *shudder*
 

Tuppence

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Ooh, didn't know that. I liked Adam as a Big Bad though, because as well as being scary to look at it and wicked strong, it wasn't like he was actually Evil; he was just the creation of someone else's mind. Buffy wouldn't have been his enemy if she'd been all 'Frankenstien me up, Doc'. She was just in the way of his goal and so she had to be eliminated- and I think that cold, emotionless demon is always more unnerving than any other.

I can't think what Maggie's big arc would have been though. Maybe Buffy would have found out about her Adam creations, tried to stop her, and then she would have had the army on her trail....or something?
 

Evil Angelus 95

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Ooh, didn't know that. I liked Adam as a Big Bad though, because as well as being scary to look at it and wicked strong, it wasn't like he was actually Evil; he was just the creation of someone else's mind. Buffy wouldn't have been his enemy if she'd been all 'Frankenstien me up, Doc'. She was just in the way of his goal and so she had to be eliminated- and I think that cold, emotionless demon is always more unnerving than any other.

I can't think what Maggie's big arc would have been though. Maybe Buffy would have found out about her Adam creations, tried to stop her, and then she would have had the army on her trail....or something?
When you put it like that, it makes the Big Bad of S4 seem like its the dark place of the human mind itself. Walsh was basically working on something that was inhuman, which in turn could be explained by saying that Adam was born out of the dark part of Walsh's soul/mind.

I'm probably reading too much into this :p
 
O
OFAWB
Great analysis!

Tuppence

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Walsh was basically working on something that was inhuman, which in turn could be explained by saying that Adam was born out of the dark part of Walsh's soul/mind.
Ooh I like that; sounds all sinister and reminds me of my film studies a-level analyses haha. Also makes me sound like I was way more perceptive that I realised :p
 

AbraxasP3

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This is something that has always been interesting to me everytime I watch season 4. For me, the character of Maggie Walsh is a great addition to this season. I really enjoy the strong, challenging women that pop up in Buffy's world - Maggie Walsh, Jenny Calendar, Anya, & Tara to name a few.

Anyways, getting back to Maggie Walsh; I've always felt as if there were bigger plans in store for that character - for a few reasons.
In my opinion, we saw the character of Maggie entirely too much throughout the entire season, especially in the beginning, for her to be a throwaway personality. We see Maggie in one of the episodes giving a class lecture on "the ID" and the natural desires that come with being human & wanting to survive in our world. Although these topics would often lead back to what Buffy was going through in that specific episode, I thought the fact Maggie Walsh was injected for longer periods of time into further episodes a rather obvious suggestion that she may be our enemy number one. As time goes on and we see that Maggie has spearheaded the Initiative, I myself was satisfied with the storyline - but I knew there had to be more. In the end, her storyline sort of derailed & it had to of been because of something.

I was actually really surprised to see Lindsay Crouse in "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." For one, Crouse is an Academy Award nominated actress -- and her acting abilities are definitely superior to some of the people on the show. Lindsay Crouse was definitely busy with her other work - she was doing "The Insider", "Touched By An Angel", "Outer Limits", etc.
It wouldn't surprise me if filming complications arose from her obvious popularity - and I'm not saying she's at all "famous" BUT what I will say is that she is a very appealing actress due to her Oscar credit, her strength as an actress, and the fact that those 2 qualities come without the hefty price-tag. Each production she's involved with is getting a quality Oscar nominated actress without having to pay through the nose. Granted, she was nominated for the Academy Award back in the 80's but that doesn't really change the fact that you can build an entire career off of one nomination.
There is another thread on here about how S4 may have been poorly cast; I believe Lindsay Crouse does a great job with the material she is given. I do think the intention was there for Maggie to of been a larger entity in the season; a reason no doubt to go to an actress of her calibre - perhaps Crouse said yes because she wanted to be one of the main characters in a new season of one of the hottest shows on TV.

It is possible that Joss felt that her character had been exposed for far too long to add much surprise in the end.

I think it's a combination of two things: the shooting schedule for Crouse was probably limiting especially for the long hours on "Buffy", and the fact that Joss & the writers never had their end game plotted out enough.

Season 4 feels more & more (everytime I watch it) like an experiment in TV; more than one long story arc, more than one "big bad", & a few episodes that really fall short ("Beer Bad") and some episodes that triumph beautifully ("Restless").
 

Buffyverse Fan

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I would say "scheduling conflicts" is the Hollywood answer. Joss has said that Lindsay Crouse was difficult to work with, which led him to killing her off/reducing her role sooner.

An interesting thing about Joss is he's not very diplomatic, I like that about him. He talks about similar issues with Donald Sutherland & Glenn Quinn. The difference with Glenn was it was his drug problem, not his general personality, and Joss did plan on bringing him back at a later date...

My guess would be that little changed. I could easily see it where the only real difference was that Adam's Trojan horse plan would have been Walsh's, and a lot of the Adam/minion conversations would have been Walsh/Adam instead.
 

brooke2707

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She did my head in so im glad that she didnt keep going. But to be honest, i think her story played out the way it should have been. She tried to create a monster to help her plans and they just turned around and stabbed her through the stomach!!! Kinda makes sense that she died
 

YummySushiPJs

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What did Maggie intend for Adam to do then? Unless she really was evil, I don't think she intended to create a monster that would kill everyone? What was her plan?
 

YummySushiPJs

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I think she/they (the initiative) wanted to create a "super-being" who could fight crime, kill demons etc, and then the scientists could continue to use the demon parts to create more "super-beings". Perhaps with the intention of using them as police or even soldiers. It was an experiment that the Government wanted to test was possible or not, and they put Maggie in charge.

They were unaware that such a super-being already existed (The Slayer - "we thought you were a myth") and had a heap load of mystical powers that go way deeper than anything Maggie could conceive. Likewise they were ignorant about demon origins and what it means to be demon (believing "they're animals man, pure and simple"), which is why, to their surprise, Adam was evil rather than good.
 
Wesley Pryce
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brilliantly put

Mr Trick

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I think she/they (the initiative) wanted to create a "super-being" who could fight crime, kill demons etc, and then the scientists could continue to use the demon parts to create more "super-beings". Perhaps with the intention of using them as police or even soldiers. It was an experiment that the Government wanted to test was possible or not, and they put Maggie in charge.

They were unaware that such a super-being already existed (The Slayer - "we thought you were a myth") and had a heap load of mystical powers that go way deeper than anything Maggie could conceive. Likewise they were ignorant about demon origins and what it means to be demon (believing "they're animals man, pure and simple"), which is why, to their surprise, Adam was evil rather than good.
It reminds me a bit of Robocop where they are inventing the machine/monster to fight evil, but not for good purposes, rather to add to their own celebrity and to access greater power.

I did get the whole Frankenstein thing and really enjoyed it. Which is why I didn't mind Maggie being killed by her own invention angle. But given a choice I would have liked Maggie to have stuck around as the seasons top villain. I like Clouse as an actress and think Maggie working along side Adam would have worked well.
 

white avenger

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I remember one early episode where Walsh was shown watching Buffy and Riley in bed together, and thought at the time that, if she were somehow sexually obsessed with Riley, she might have used Initiative resources, including other chipped demons and vampires, to take Buffy out of the picture, probably beginning when she sent Buffy out alone with the defective weapon against the demon.
 
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