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What Would Drusilla have been like with a new surrogate family?

Altoz

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So, here's what happened in a fanfiction series of mine some time ago. Angelus killed Lilah and launched an aggravated assault on Wes. On the point of death, Dru showed up and turned him on his own request. The two of them bonded, given Wes' steadily darkening character over the course of Angel. They also help to free a rather talented teenage darkmage from her abusive father. And the bond with this teenage girl (Samantha Dykstra, aka Hekate) becomes intensely strong, but not in a slashy way- more of a mother/daughter one. On some level, isn't this something that Dru would want? Something more substantial than Miss Emily? A flesh and blood daughter or child of her own? All right, so the kid is evil and twisted by her own bitter experiences, but not enough to prevent Dru and her becoming a powerful team.
 

DeadlyDuo

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OC teenage girls tend to be Mary Sues if given a significant role alongside more established canon characters.

As for Dru wth a new "family", I don't think she would get the sense of belonging and fulfilment that she got with the Whirlwind.

Dru isn't a leader. She may hold a high rank within a group but she needs someone else to lead eg Spike, Angelus or Darla. Her insanity prevents her from maintaining a leadership position hence why she needs someone else more clear headed in charge.
 

Altoz

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Which is why fixing Dru up with Wes would work. And giving her a nice, ruthless surrogate daughter would give her an opportunity to bond with another female character than Darla. I always visualised Hekate as being a Goth character, having had problems with alcohol and even having engaged in casual street prostitution when she ran away from her father the first time. And she kills or forcibly telepathically probes people. Because Dru and Wes saved her from a nightmarish family life, there's an element of wish fulfilment fantasy there. Is it Mary Sue if the OC relates to a strong female character instead of a male?
 

DeadlyDuo

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Is it Mary Sue if the OC relates to a strong female character instead of a male?
Yes. The issue is the OC herself, not who she relates to. Weird names are a classic sign of a Mary Sue, as are special powers.
 

thrasherpix

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You might like One Thing Or Your Mother. It's actually one of the few novels I've enjoyed. Besides giving a lot of background to Principal Snyder as well as a window into what Mayor Wilkins was doing in season 2 (and how he made Snyder his minion before he made Snyder principal in order to spy on the Slayer) with its own interesting moments (holy crap, as much as I hate Snyder, I wanted to kill his mother slowly, and when Angelus finds an assassin hired by the Mayor to take out Buffy, not that he knows or cares who hired the assassin, he takes him out in something of a jealous rage as Buffy is "his" to torture and kill and won't tolerate claim jumpers, and Buffy never knows it).

A major section is that a little girl is turned. Dru turned her for her own demented sentimental feelings, seeing the child as a new dollie, though Angelus quickly turned the girl into another way to threaten Dru and to torment Spike (still in a wheelchair). Spike hated the girl at first but eventually took on a surprisingly paternal role with him and Dru like parental figures, which upset Angelus greatly, and caused him to begin tormenting the girl as well. It was definitely the family from Hell, nothing happy about it by the end, and contributes to Spike swearing revenge against Angelus once he's no longer bound to his wheelchair.
 

Altoz

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Insofar as the "Mary Sue" label goes, we should also be aware of Mary's twin brother, Marty Sam. Marty Sams are male OMCs that try to compete with the dominant male characters in the series, by being rougher, tougher and carrying more testosterone than them- and they don't neccessarily succeed. Jonathan was the first Marty Sam to pop up in the series, but he grew out of it- Andrew didn't. Warren was definitely in that category. On the other side of the ledger, Spike was a former Marty Sam and he shows flashes of it every now and then, and so was Xander, but like Jonathan, he grew out of it. Riley didn't. He had to break up with Buffy to find himself again, and he didn't work as a character because of that. Lindsay's relationship with Angel was Marty Sammish and so was Wesley's for a while. Successful Marty Sams become strong independent male characters in their own right and aren't constantly comparing themselves to the dominant male (or female) character all the time.
'
 

DeadlyDuo

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@Altoz Spike, Xander, Jonathan, Warren, Wesley, and Andrew were not Marty Sams. A case could be argued for Riley being one, especially due to Xander's Into the Woods speech about how great Riley is and that he's "the one that comes along once in a lifetime".

It could also be argued that Buffy was starting to show Mary Sue traits in the later seasons.
 

Altoz

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Let's pull back a bit. Note I said that Spike and Xander were former Marty Sams. At some point, each of them came into their own. Darla barely tolerated Spike in the early days of the fanged four, remember. Xander came right when he got his construction job and achieved some personal independence. Jonathan was the least Marty Sammish of the Trio, but Warren and Andrew were definitely Fanboys, albeit Warren got darker as time went on, and Andrew started showing some iron in his soul. Wesley is the one who changed the most. From a useless green strait-laced Watcher wannabe, under Angel's tutelage, subsequent abandonment, his romantic frustrations with Fred, that highly inappropriate relationship with Lilah Morgan (!) and the horrific Illyria episode, he became a fully fledged morally ambiguous figure. I think it was a shame he didn't survive "Not Fade Away".
 

DeadlyDuo

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I still disagree that Spike and Xander were ever Marty Sams. At worst, Spike became a bit of a Creator's pet in Season 7.
 

Altoz

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Spike was initially a Marty Sam when newly turned. That phase didn't last particularly long, after some good mentoring from Angelus, so we're talking nineteenth century here. As I've noted, in Xander's case, it ended when he left Sunnydale High, got his construction job, and fell in love with Anya.
 

Puppet

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Can we please get straight what a Gary Stu is? Because I feel like someone on this thread isn't very aware of it, no offense intended.

A character isn't a Mary Sue/Gary Stu up until they become interesting. A Mary Sue/Gary Stu is a self-insert character that's practically perfect in every way. Their presence saves the situation. An example would be: Spike is a Gary Stu because he gets to the top of the tower just in the nick of time, kills Doc, saves Dawn and brings her down to reunite with Buffy and everyone lived happily ever after. That's never happened with either Spike or Xander at any point in the show.

Another example would be if Buffy had caught up to Riley in Into the Woods, they made up and got back together. That would have made Xander a Gary Stu, because it would've been his speech that was the catalyst for them reuniting.
 
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