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What would this season look like with Cordelia instead of Spike

slayer730

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While Spike was an interesting addition to this season and he definitely had chemistry with Angel I wonder what this season would have looked like if Cordelia was still present. Her arc was pretty much put on pause after season 3 in favor of the Jasmine takeover so it would have been interesting to see what they could have come up with for her. What do you guys think this season would look like if she was a part of the main cast?
 

nightshade

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Black Thorn
I do wish Cordelia had been there, but really without radically changing season 4 I don't know how she would have fit in.
 

Priceless

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I love Cordy and would have loved her to have come out of her coma in episode three, faced with W&H and Spike etc. She'd definitely have been the voice of reason throughout the season, and be slapping both Spike and Angel upside their heads when they were bickering.

Of course there'd be no Nina at all, as Cordy and Angel would finally get the romance they deserved. She'd also be pushing Wes and Fred together and Eve wouldn't last two minutes. She's have to have a heart to heart with Connor and explain that it was Jasmine, not her, who instigated their relationship. I'm sure she'd totally support Angel going up against the Black Thorn, but I think the show would end with her telling Angel that if they came out of the battle alive, she couldn't be with Angel because he'd killed Drogyn. Cordy wouldn't support that.

I can't think of what Angel would task Cordy with at the end. Maybe she could kill Lindsey instead of Lorne, or perhaps she could kill Eve?
 

Mr Trick

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I'm pleased they went with Spike because outside of Buffy S2 we didn't get much of him and Angel together. The only thing is had probably peaked as a character by this point. Ideally Cordy would have gotten a bigger role in the final season than she did.
 

Ethan Reigns

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The best deal for Cordelia is if she had been the one to not get in the limo at the end of Season 4. The story should have had a human survivor because no human who joined Angel Investigations survived to the end. She could have been the voice of reason who warned them all not to join Wolfram & Hart. Of course, if they promised her a wardrobe, she would have been the first to join.
 

Faded90

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It depends on if they wrote her as the real Cordy like in You’re Welcome or Saint Cordy like in S3. I wonder what Cordy’s ‘area’ would have been within Wolfram and Hart?

I think Cangel was dead though, Joss has said they never intended to get them together and I don’t think they could have had a third season of them tiptoeing around each other
 

DeadlyDuo

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Spike made Season 5, and supposedly the only reason they got a Season 5 was on the proviso that Spike was brought over once Buffy had ended. Cordelia always had a limited shelf life.
 

white avenger

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I can't picture Cordy allowing Angel to take over Wolfram & Hart, and without that single element, Season 5 would have been totally different, The actual details of that difference would be pure guess and conjecture, but one major change that I could imagine would have almost certainly been the elimination of Illyria, who is a character who I think became a major asset to the team. Maybe Connor would have somehow stayed around, but the Angel/Cordy/Connor thing would have had to be settled and moved away from quickly. Wes and Fred would have hopefully still have happened, but, without Illyria being there, they would have actually been able to be happy through the entire Season. Instead of the "You're Welcome" and "Girl In Question" episodes, maybe Buffy and some or all of her gang could have made a guest appearance, possibly in a multi-episode arc when Dana showed up
 

CHK DeWilSon

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Well I certainly would have preferred it! Just!

I'm not one of though that was upset with Cordy's storyline in ATS S4 simply because I never brought the Cangel romance but most definitely after hearing what they originally where going with their storyline in having a reverse Becoming story where it's Angel that has to do the deed which tells me they were possible going to kill off Cordy but circumstances made them do it differently plus an absolute NO from me in once again giving a major BAngel storyline to their new love interests. Is nothing sacred and can they not being any more originality to their own stories.

Anyway back to the actual topic and yes I like Cordy well enough to want to still have her in ATS and as a important member of AI. I do think it's sad that out of the original crew that started on BTVS, she's the only one that never got to live a full life and get a relatively happy ending.

And yeah I'm in the camp of anyone but Spike even though apparently he was brought on to save the show which clearly he succeeded in doing?!
 

Wesxfred

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I feel like they had to compensate for losing their main female role. I obviously love Fred but she was so different from Cordy and Eve, Harmony and Nina were just failed attempts at trying to get more women on the show. Mabey they could've added Gwen or Faith? I feel like this would've been an interesting dynamic and I can also see one of them going out with Gunn, which would've added another layer to the season. I do really love Spike tho and his humor is amazing!! It just really annoys me how there are so many guys this season, and the that we do girls are pretty useless (bar Fred)
Also, I'm kinda mad at the episode 'You're welcome' Cordelia was meant to be the heart of the team and bring them together, but she didn't really have many interactions with anyone apart from Angel. I wanted to see her catching up with the gang about everything she missed. I wanted to see her try and get Wesley and Fred together. I wanted her to have more girl talk with harmony and Fred!
Sorry for my little rant lol x
 

white avenger

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I wonder what this season would have looked like if Cordelia was still present.

Here's a thought that just occurred to me, and that no one has considered. What if Cordy had returned in Season 5, not as Jasmine's mother, which I don't think was originally supposed really be the plan anyhow (Joss being ticked off about Charisma's unexpected pregnancy was the real reason) but as herself, or maybe as Illyria instead of Fred, but as a soulless, evil creature, either way basically the ultimate Big Bad of the Season, or even the entire series, being revealed as the true driving force behind the Senior Partners all along (they could have been the ones responsible for putting Illyria's life force in Cordy's body. Just imagine Fred's death scene, only played out between Cordy and Angel.)

Even if Joss didn't know that that would be the Series finale, and originally planned to somehow redeem Cordy in the end, the mid Season change would have mage for some really awesome story lines, not the least of which would have been keeping one of my favorite unappreciated characters, Nina, as an Ally with Angel and his crew. (Anyone who objects to her ever being on the show and a possible new love interest for Angel could hook her up with Gunn. They might make a cute couple)
 
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(they could have been the ones responsible for putting Illyria's life force in Cordy's body. Just imagine Fred's death scene, only played out between Cordy and Angel.)

I love CC and DB in the roles that they play - but they are NOT the dramatic actors that AD and AA are. There's no way they could have played that scene out half as well.

What if Cordy had returned in Season 5, not as Jasmine's mother, which I don't think was originally supposed really be the plan anyhow (Joss being ticked off about Charisma's unexpected pregnancy was the real reason) but as herself, or maybe as Illyria instead of Fred, but as a soulless, evil creature, either way basically the ultimate Big Bad of the Season, or even the entire series, being revealed as the true driving force behind the Senior Partners all alon

Is that not just a rehash of season 4 though? Cordelia is the big bad/ possessed by the big bad.
Without CCs pregnancy the plan was for Cordy to be the big bad of s4 and Angel chopping her head off - so in a world without her pregnancy this version of s5 couldn't happen. And in a world where s4 happened the way it did, this is the exact same story as they did the year before with the exact same character. And people hated it enough the first time around.
 

AlphaFoxtrot

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I assume it would be like early Season 3 of Buffy, where Cordie is the ex-big bad, and Angel is sheltering her.
 
S

SpotlessMindUK

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I think they messed up introducing Spike to season 5 by having him in the opening credits of the first episode instead of having him as a surprise reveal at teh end.
 
S

sweetiepie

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While Spike was an interesting addition to this season and he definitely had chemistry with Angel I wonder what this season would have looked like if Cordelia was still present. Her arc was pretty much put on pause after season 3 in favor of the Jasmine takeover so it would have been interesting to see what they could have come up with for her. What do you guys think this season would look like if she was a part of the main cast?
Boring
 

thetopher

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I could see Cordelia replacing Lorne as the head of the entertainment division, since he didn't contribute much anyway then it's not a huge loss. She could've had interesting scenes with Harmony and Spike perhaps.
The problem is the visions; the visions are the connection to the powers that be, so its had to see how that would work inside the monster that is W&H. I can only assume that the Senior Partners would try and take Cordy out as soon as possible, or worse yet try and subvert/corrupt her somehow.

Bottomline I could see real Cordelia getting seduced by the temptations of W&H but not the Saint Cordy from S3. Overall I don't think the idea works.
 

Btvs fan

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@thetopher
Cordelia's time was done long before this. Storywise it was in To Shanshu in LA. After that there was no where else to go and the writers struggled with keeping her character relevant to Angels story.
Most of the time she was simply the damsel in distress put in danger to be saved by Angel. There were more than few episodes of a villain putting Cordy in danger so Angel gets mad and then kills said villain.
In S2 the interesting stories were with Darla. Cordy was a just in a bikini to be gawked at and rescued by Angel.
In S3 some of the most best parts of that season were when she wasn't even on the show and when she came back it felt awkward.
She was on the show due to Greenwalt loving the character (and actress) and once he walked the writing was on the wall for her.
Now was how it handled really crappy, yes but her time was long done before S4 and she wouldn't have worked in S5.
I think Your Welcome as an episode is overrated anyway although the actual send off at the end is good.
 

thetopher

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@thetopher
Cordelia's time was done long before this. Storywise it was in To Shanshu in LA. After that there was no where else to go and the writers struggled with keeping her character relevant to Angels story.

That's basically what I'm saying, that S5 doesn't work with the Cordelia we see develop from S3 onward.
Although I would add that the visions aren't exactly the problem with Cordelia's character arc (the visions developed her character pretty well in S2), her forced romance with Angel was. Getting into a romance with the title character in the Buffyverse means that your character has an expiration date, some kind of tragic ending.
 
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