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Who did Spike love more between Drusilla and Buffy?

Nearwild

Townie
Joined
Jul 8, 2021
Messages
67
Age
37
From Spike's point of view I would say both equally, as he gave everything he had available at the time to both of them. Soulless love appears to be single-faceted- it's all possession and desire without the compassionate empathy needed for unconditional love. Until he got a soul that's as far as he would have been able to feel it. For Dru, that would be enough because that's all she had to offer back, but Buffy needed more and so he stepped up to get it- for entirely selfish reasons at the time- but with that action his love could expand into the extra capacity to be selfless.
 

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
9,611
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31
Dru.

From Season 2 onwards, Dru either appears, is mentioned by Spike, or appears in flashback with him in every season he is in. She is always on his mind and it is as if the show wants to keep reminding the audience that these two had a relationship. Not only was Spike happier with Dru, but they were also in a relationship for over a century and they also looked after each other when one of them was sick or injured.

Also the whole point of Spike offering to stake Dru as a sign of his "love" for Buffy was because of how much Dru meant to him. The whole gesture is meaningless if Spike didn't care deeply for Dru.

I think the only reason Spike fell in "love" with Buffy was as a result of the Monks spell. It messed with everyone's brains and memories. The FFL Sprusilla break up scene is a retcon of what Spike said happened in Lovers Walk which is the true version of events. The only way for the FFL break up scene to not be a retcon is that it was Spike's altered memory version of the break up rather than what actually happened.

Spike had free will with Dru, he didn't with Buffy.
 
buffynmarvel
buffynmarvel
Oh I didn't even consider the Monks spell in regards to Spike's feelings for Buffy! It changes so much

mishmash

Townie
Joined
Nov 12, 2020
Messages
5
Age
27
I always felt that Spike offering to stake Dru was just him copying Angel staking Darla to protect Buffy. To Spike, that’s what ‘won’ Angel Buffy’s love, so it should do the same for Spike. No saying he didn’t love Dru, it’s obvious how devoted he was to her for the century or so they were together.

Also the whole point of Spike offering to stake Dru as a sign of his "love" for Buffy was because of how much Dru meant to him. The whole gesture is meaningless if Spike didn't care deeply for Dru.
 
buffynmarvel
buffynmarvel
Another thing I didn't consider. This discussion is so fascinating! :)

whatdBuffyDo

Potential
Joined
Dec 24, 2020
Messages
481
Sineya
I think romantic love can be experienced uniquely for each different person one falls in love with. The effort it takes might vary depending on the discrepancy between the needs and desires of the two people etc. but I don't think effort is necessarily the way to quantize it. I think comparing the love towards two people with different characters is like pointing out the differences between apples and oranges and trying to decide which one is the better fruit overall. Both can be loved for different reasons and in different ways. But I'm open to hearing different ideas on this.
 
buffynmarvel
buffynmarvel
I love this comment. I agree completely :)

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
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Age
31
I always felt that Spike offering to stake Dru was just him copying Angel staking Darla to protect Buffy. To Spike, that’s what ‘won’ Angel Buffy’s love, so it should do the same for Spike.

Spike wasn't even there for that and I doubt Angel is going to give him tips on how to win Buffy's love. Also none of the scoobies are going to talk to Spike about something that happened at least 3 years before Spike got "in" with the Scoobies. Season 1 Darla was never mentioned on the show again. It wasn't until Season 2 that the Whirlwind back story started being fleshed out and the Darla/Angelus relationship only started being fleshed out on Angel's own show.

Also if Spike is going to perform a "romantic" gesture, he'd want it to be original, not copying something Angel did.
 

Stake fodder

Soulless
Joined
Feb 6, 2021
Messages
682
Location
Caught on a root
I think romantic love can be experienced uniquely for each different person one falls in love with. The effort it takes might vary depending on the discrepancy between the needs and desires of the two people etc. but I don't think effort is necessarily the way to quantize it. I think comparing the love towards two people with different characters is like pointing out the differences between apples and oranges and trying to decide which one is the better fruit overall. Both can be loved for different reasons and in different ways. But I'm open to hearing different ideas on this.
I'm thinking along these lines, too. Soulless, unchipped Spike loved Dru best, but chipped and later souled Spike loved Buffy. He was a different person, so loved different people, but it's not something that can be quantified exactly.
 

ILLYRIAN

Druish Pervonian Wizard
Joined
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Black Thorn
A human might be taken over by a demon and become a vampire, that vampire could be infected by a soul at some point but the vampire would still be a demon.
To my way of understanding no demon knows how to love, they LIKE a lot, become friends with but never love.
 

afanofbuffy

Townie
Joined
Jul 27, 2021
Messages
79
From Spike's point of view I would say both equally, as he gave everything he had available at the time to both of them. Soulless love appears to be single-faceted- it's all possession and desire without the compassionate empathy needed for unconditional love. Until he got a soul that's as far as he would have been able to feel it. For Dru, that would be enough because that's all she had to offer back, but Buffy needed more and so he stepped up to get it- for entirely selfish reasons at the time- but with that action his love could expand into the extra capacity to be selfless.

I agree with you. Spike loved both Buffy and Drusilla equally but in different ways.

Dru.

From Season 2 onwards, Dru either appears, is mentioned by Spike, or appears in flashback with him in every season he is in. She is always on his mind and it is as if the show wants to keep reminding the audience that these two had a relationship. Not only was Spike happier with Dru, but they were also in a relationship for over a century and they also looked after each other when one of them was sick or injured.

Also the whole point of Spike offering to stake Dru as a sign of his "love" for Buffy was because of how much Dru meant to him. The whole gesture is meaningless if Spike didn't care deeply for Dru.

I think the only reason Spike fell in "love" with Buffy was as a result of the Monks spell. It messed with everyone's brains and memories. The FFL Sprusilla break up scene is a retcon of what Spike said happened in Lovers Walk which is the true version of events. The only way for the FFL break up scene to not be a retcon is that it was Spike's altered memory version of the break up rather than what actually happened.

Spike had free will with Dru, he didn't with Buffy.

You have made an interesting point but what does this all have to do with the the key?

Besides Spike didn't seem happier with Dru. Of course they had their happy moments and they loved each other but Spike had to compete for Drusilla's love. Drusilla took a sadistic pleasure to make Spike compete for her love.

I always felt that Spike offering to stake Dru was just him copying Angel staking Darla to protect Buffy. To Spike, that’s what ‘won’ Angel Buffy’s love, so it should do the same for Spike. No saying he didn’t love Dru, it’s obvious how devoted he was to her for the century or so they were together.

Which episode did Spike offer to stake Drusilla? Sounds terrific.

Also if Spike is going to perform a "romantic" gesture, he'd want it to be original, not copying something Angel did.
[/QUOTE]

Yes. Spike is a romantic. So he would most likely write poems.

Option C.
Himself.

Lmao 😂

I think romantic love can be experienced uniquely for each different person one falls in love with. The effort it takes might vary depending on the discrepancy between the needs and desires of the two people etc. but I don't think effort is necessarily the way to quantize it. I think comparing the love towards two people with different characters is like pointing out the differences between apples and oranges and trying to decide which one is the better fruit overall. Both can be loved for different reasons and in different ways. But I'm open to hearing different ideas on this.

I want to believe that Spike's love for Buffy was more profound. However we can agree as well that comparing two different forms of love is not possible.

A human might be taken over by a demon and become a vampire, that vampire could be infected by a soul at some point but the vampire would still be a demon.
To my way of understanding no demon knows how to love, they LIKE a lot, become friends with but never love.

A soulless vampire in love is still in love but it is a very unhealthy love. Still it is love.

I'm thinking along these lines, too. Soulless, unchipped Spike loved Dru best, but chipped and later souled Spike loved Buffy. He was a different person, so loved different people, but it's not something that can be quantified exactly.

When soulless Spike was in love with Dru it was unhealthy and his love for Buffy when he was chipped and later ensouled was both unhealty and later healthy. You are not wrong.
 

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,191
Age
55
I think Spike was in love with Dru but he was also obsessed with the Slayer whoever she was , he was not ever in love with Buffy as a person . Spike like the others was altered by the spell that the monks performed, making his obsession with slayers into later, a sick sort of uncaring love with Buffy
 

Priceless

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
9,011
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UK
Buffy. He fought for his soul because of her.
 
Spanky
Spanky
The evil person in me wants to comment on this post, but that would cause everything to spiral out of control

DeadlyDuo

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
9,611
Age
31
You have made an interesting point but what does this all have to do with the the key?

The Monks spell to insert Dawn into Buffy's life also messed with people's memories and made them think that Dawn had been there all along. Joyce and Buffy "loved" Dawn, which means that people's feelings can also be messed with.

Besides Spike didn't seem happier with Dru. Of course they had their happy moments and they loved each other but Spike had to compete for Drusilla's love. Drusilla took a sadistic pleasure to make Spike compete for her love.

I disagree that Spike was competing. That makes it sound like Dru was just being indecisive when she wasn't. There's a lot of underlying issues with the Angelus/Dru "relationship". I think Angelus trained Dru to react a certain way towards him hence why her reaction to Angel is different from how she reacts to Angelus, she knows when her "master" is in the driving seat. Even if you reduce it down to a hierarchal situation eg as the new alpha, Angelus gets his pick of the female vampires and Dru would be seen as an extra worthy prize because she was "Spike's girl" and so it's an extra kick in the teeth to Spike to not only take his alpha position but his girl too. Even in that position, there is no benefit to Dru to keep sleeping with Spike which she is doing. She looks after him, and again there is no benefit to her to do so.

Dru chooses to maintain her relationship with Spike despite what is going on with Angelus. I also think that Spike knows about the underlying issues hence why he lays the blame entirely at Angelus' door and doesn't blame Dru. He's not blind to her faults, as he's quick to call her out on the Chaos demon, but he knows it's more complicated than Dru being "a big ho".
 
buffynmarvel
buffynmarvel
It's like you've psychoanalysed these characters. I love it lol

Dora

Scooby
Joined
Apr 1, 2016
Messages
1,191
Age
55
Buffy. He fought for his soul because of her.

When did Buffy actually ask Spike to get a soul for her?, no that's what Whedon decided after the event , Whedon rewrote the Church scene , Spike never ask for the demon for a soul , his last lines in S6 was make me the man I was , he was never a souled Vampire but he was a vampire without a chip, the demon tricked Spike by not removing his chip but giving him a soul .Its one of the main reason its easy to see that Spike never really loved Buffy in his vampire form , Firstly in S6 as soon as he thought his chip had stopped working he went out to kill Knowing full well that Buffy would hate it once he started feeding again and would have to kill him or him her , secondly as a beginner witch Willow from her hospital bed returned Angel's soul , by S6 Willow is a mega witch, if he love Buffy then why not approach Willow for his soul, at any time prior to trying to rape Buffy ? Spike in S7 was a different animal to Spike in S6 , Spike and Buffy relationship was much more caring, open, friendly, even living in her house , why would Spike not want that for Buffy in S6 if he did actually loved her
 

Dora

Scooby
Joined
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Messages
1,191
Age
55
I didn't say he got a soul 'for her', but 'because' of her. She didn't ask him to do it, that's not the point.

Didn't Spike say to Buffy I got it for you , its what you want, or similar I will have to check

This fits with the soul getting if you put it next to his discussion with Clem, where he says the chip won't let him be a monster and he can't be a man. If he just wanted to remove the chip why wouldn't he say, "make me a monster again" ?

Make me a monster again, really ? he never said make me a souled vampire either, lets put it this way it makes no sense for Spike to travel all the way to Africa to get a soul when Willow is more than capable, but it makes sense for Spike to go to Africa to get his chip removed simply because Willow would not do that
 

Nearwild

Townie
Joined
Jul 8, 2021
Messages
67
Age
37
Make me a monster again, really ? he never said make me a souled vampire either, lets put it this way it makes no sense for Spike to travel all the way to Africa to get a soul when Willow is more than capable, but it makes sense for Spike to go to Africa to get his chip removed simply because Willow would not do that

Personally I don't think he would show his face or ask anything from the Scoobies after the events of Entrophy and SR, or even after their reaction to him after Crush tbh. And surely some sciencey tech types somewhere could've done chip removal easier than going through trials? Spike's a dramatic poetry boy- going to get a soul to win a loved one, (even when that love is self-centred and no one exactly asked him to do it) is totally on theme IMO.
But everyone spins it differently, that's part of the fun of it.
 
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